• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

If Klingons are so brave and honorable...

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Well in ds9 the dominion were able to detect cloaked ships also as far as I know only the original defiant ship had the cloaking technology in it.

As for the cloaking ability on it they were never supposed to use it while in the alpha quadrant but the few times they did it was kinda a secret / helped in the fighting.

Also like I said before the use of cloaking is a form of a aggressive weapon and they don't use it on the other ships as they are not war ships as the federation is against that.
 
The Defiant had it
The Valiant had it
The Sao Paulo (renamed to Defiant) had it
And I'm just assuming based on that, that there were more in production since Sao Paulo was not specifically built to replace Defiant.

All used in the Alpha Quadrant... although it's a moot point since the Dominion had moved into their backyard. Which meant they had to have made some kind of agreement.
 
DesiPower said:
Then why do they use cloaks? Isn't is the most dishonorable and cowardly thing to hide and attack the enemy? If they are all about looking death in its eyes and taking the enemy head on and all that, how does their conscience (Gene's logic) allow them to hide behind their cloak? Given, that they cannot attack without de-cloaking, but still they can and do many times reveal themselves once enemy at a great tactical disadvantage. Unfair... and very unfitting of the whole Klingon philosophy...
Click to expand...



The same reason they did all sorts of stuff we would consider dishonorable. They stated: "There's no greater honor than victory."

So they believe in victory by about any means.
 
darkxshade said:
I've seen DS9 twice now and I'm not quite sure what happened with the treaty. If I recall the cloak on the Defiant was a loaner and a Romulan had to be present to use it but after a while the Federation had full control of the ship and the technology. Eventually they even put it on other Defiant class ships. So I was wondering what amendments they made to the treaty as a result of the war with the Dominion and why they don't put it on all ships if it was now allowed. The Defiant class ship is essentially a warship so it doesn't make sense to only allow it to this type of ship and not others.
Click to expand...

Well, most ships are cruiser used for explorations, as someone pointed out earlier, Federations main aim was explorations and not confrontation. Ships are loaded with weapons for protection of territory and weaker races and transports. It does not make sense to cloak unless your intention is to attack first.
But to you point you are correct, I am not sure what let the Romulans let Federation use it by themselves without supervision. Although iirc, the Romulan female in-charge of cloak on Defiant did die in one of the initial combats and was never replaced. Also, the war with Dominion and Klingons left Romulans worry about bigger things in DS9.
Also Defiant is a very small ship, maybe the technology loaned did not work on bigger ship and Federation didn't want confrontation by modifying it for bigger ships...
 
darkxshade said:
The Defiant had it
The Valiant had it
The Sao Paulo (renamed to Defiant) had it
And I'm just assuming based on that, that there were more in production since Sao Paulo was not specifically built to replace Defiant.

All used in the Alpha Quadrant... although it's a moot point since the Dominion had moved into their backyard. Which meant they had to have made some kind of agreement.
Click to expand...

I had to google the two other then defiant and I don't know if they showed the valiant having it but the sao paulo was remade into defiant after the original was destroyed and I believe that is the exception as it's the ship DS9 used and was the only one that even had cloak.
 
Last edited:
Newbian said:
I had to google the two other then defiant and I don't know if they showed the valiant having it but the sao paulo was remade into defiant after the original was destroyed and I believe that is the exception as it's the ship DS9 used and was the only one that even had cloak.
Click to expand...


I'm going from memory here so I may be wrong

Defiant had one, it's obvious

The Valiant was featured on one of the episodes of DS9 with Jake and Nog... it also had a cloak as the ship was behind enemy lines for I believe months destroying high priority targets with sneak attacks.

The Sao Paulo was in production before the Defiant was destroyed, it was going to be a ship of its own but since Defiant got reamed, it was awarded as a replacement to the DS9 crew and I think it was the Admiral who had it renamed as a tribute.
 
Here is the information about the valiant:

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Valiant_(episode)

They never said anything about them using cloak and there are other ways to hide then to use that.

As for the sao paulo if I remember right there was multiple defiant style ships you see during battles in DS9 but as far as I can recall only the DS9's station defiant was given the cloaking technology as it seemed something they were able to add easy enough rather then to build the ship around it.
 
I saw the episode with the Valiant, it had a cloak... that I'm pretty sure of. The mission was to tail some new Dominion super battleship or something. They had to get close without getting detected. They decloaked to attack, failed and got their ass whupped.
 
gorobei said:
because back during production of TOS, some numnut stage hand sat down on the romulan bird of prey model and destroyed it. since they needed to film something, they used the klingon battlecruiser and wrote in a romulan-klingon alliance to explain the romulans using the ship and cloak.

later the alliance was extended to give the klingons cloaks.

then some psycho decided to reverse the romulan klingon stereotypes (rom-honorable kling-sneaky and ruthless) for the TNG and made the klingons into pseudo samurai and romulans into coldwar russians.
Click to expand...


This reminds me of the only time I ever went to a Star Trek convention. James Doohan was speaking and during the Q&A was asked how the transporter worked. He responded by explaining for 10 minutes or so how they filmed it and how often someone would sneeze or laugh, messing it up starting the shot over again. It was very interesting and funny. The guy who asked the question then said “no, I mean how does it move you in space?” to which Mr. Doohan said “uh.. right.. magic.” I laughed but also died a bit inside as the guy walked away from the microphone clearly pissed.
 
DesiPower said:
I never finished DS9, curious, do they actually ever fight the Dominion itself or just the Jem Hadar?
Click to expand...

If you mean the shape shifters then not really as they really don't fight so much as infiltrate at times and direct the fighters.

They do defeat them in a way by
infecting them with some kind of virus that transfers to all of them when they merge together but most of the victory was when they defeat most of the ships they had as they closed the wormhole to prevent more ships from getting in and then the cardassians revolt.
 
DesiPower said:
I never finished DS9, curious, do they actually ever fight the Dominion itself or just the Jem Hadar?
Click to expand...


If by the Dominion you mean the changelings/founders and by fight you mean space battles then no. The founders are sort of hands-off... they do fight when they are forced to but the only times they actually involve themselves is through subterfuge, sabotage, or anything that puts their changeling abilities at an advantage.

They do command the fleets but it's the Vorta that usually does the administrative stuff with your Jem Hadar being the foot soldiers in all of it. The Vorta and Jem Hadar are genetically engineered to be loyal to the founders.
 
From what I understand it, the actual 'Dominion' is sort of like the Federation of the Gamma quadrant, with members from many different worlds, under the rulings of the Founders (a group of changelings/shapeshifters), with the Jem'hadar as the soldiers.

I don't think any of the other worlds have contributed to the war and the Dominion pretty much exclusively use the Jem'hadars as soldiers.


Edit: Just read the post above me and yes, I forgot about the Vorta, who are mostly the ones leading the Jem'hadar soldiers and act as commanders/administrators.
 
Skel said:
This reminds me of the only time I ever went to a Star Trek convention. James Doohan was speaking and during the Q&A was asked how the transporter worked. He responded by explaining for 10 minutes or so how they filmed it and how often someone would sneeze or laugh, messing it up starting the shot over again. It was very interesting and funny. The guy who asked the question then said “no, I mean how does it move you in space?” to which Mr. Doohan said “uh.. right.. magic.” I laughed but also died a bit inside as the guy walked away from the microphone clearly pissed.
Click to expand...

Be honest...that guy was really you... :biggrin:
 
The defiant cloak was an amendment made to the treaty that the Romulans gave to the Feds under the condition it only be used in the Gamma quadrant in exchange for information the Defiant acquired on the Dominion. (The wormhole was in Fed space, but the Romulans feared the Dominion and wanted to know everything they could before conflict broke out) Sisco illegally used the cloak whenever he popped it on in the Alpha Quad during the war. But let's face it, when you have dozens of warships shooting at you is a treaty REALLY the thing at the fore front of your mind?

As for the Klingons, they aren't really honorable. They never were in the past and they aren't really today. Their government is rotten to the core. Klingons are as political and backstabbing for self gain as anybody, they just don't acknowledge it, instead propagating a false culture of honor to manipulate the people into obeying their superiors. It's so deeply intrenched that men like General Martok refuse to disobey rulers he fully well knows is corrupt like canceller Gowron as a deeply ingrained cultural indoctrination of always obeying your lord. Using a cloak is not that far fetched, it helps them achieve victory and that's all they care about 🙂 It was never about honor. After victory is achieved they can make up whatever history they want.
 
Also the Federation did have a phase-cloak experimental craft in Next gen, which was far superior to the simple cloaking. Too bad they ended up destroying it, stupid idiot writers :thumbsdown:
 
Scooby Doo said:
Also the Federation did have a phase-cloak experimental craft in Next gen, which was far superior to the simple cloaking. Too bad they ended up destroying it, stupid idiot writers :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

That was pegasus I believe, could travel through matter... it was deemed unethical or something. A true loss
 
Scooby Doo said:
Also the Federation did have a phase-cloak experimental craft in Next gen, which was far superior to the simple cloaking. Too bad they ended up destroying it, stupid idiot writers :thumbsdown:
Click to expand...

If I recall, it was a major treaty violation. The process of discovering the Pegasus brought it to public knowledge as an act of war. They had to destroy the prototype of risk military action from the Klingons and Romulans.
 
Bateluer said:
If I recall, it was a major treaty violation. The process of discovering the Pegasus brought it to public knowledge as an act of war. They had to destroy the prototype of risk military action from the Klingons and Romulans.
Click to expand...

Thing is, they have that tech, they could have wiped out the Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Borg, etc.

Fly into a system phased, shoot phased torpedoes that come out of phase before they detonate, bypassing enemy shields. Apply the tech to a colony to replace shields. It was a "game over" tech. Once you have it, you are invincible until they create an enemy that can overcome it.
 
No they didn't. Picard CHOSE to decloak with it right in front of Romulans. Had they simply left no one would be the wiser.
 
Sophitia said:
No they didn't. Picard CHOSE to decloak with it right in front of Romulans. Had they simply left no one would be the wiser.
Click to expand...

Because he was big on treaties, and wanted to make sure the Romulans screamed bloody murder at the Federation until the people who originally developed the tech got in deep shit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top