If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: athithi

Originally posted by: Proletariat
Shaheed Bhagat Singh was better than Gandhi.

When I was younger, it wasn't cool to think of Gandhi as great either.

LOL I was just playing with ya I'm assuming your Indian right? "Srinath" gave it away. I'm not Indian but I don't think a leader like Gandhi is all that great for any country. He really gave up too much to achieve independence. A leader needs to be accommodating and reasonable but he can't take that to an extreme like Gandhi did.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Proletariat
He really gave up too much to achieve independence. A leader needs to be accommodating and reasonable but he can't take that to an extreme like Gandhi did.

What did he give up?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Proletariat
He really gave up too much to achieve independence. A leader needs to be accommodating and reasonable but he can't take that to an extreme like Gandhi did.

What did he give up?

The partition of India and Pakistan. He could have kept it together if he was stronger willed. He wilted like a leaf and let 2 million people die and was indirectly responsible for one of the worst long term wars of the 20th century.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Proletariat
He really gave up too much to achieve independence. A leader needs to be accommodating and reasonable but he can't take that to an extreme like Gandhi did.

What did he give up?

The partition of India and Pakistan. He could have kept it together if he was stronger willed. He wilted like a leaf and let 2 million people die and was indirectly responsible for one of the worst long term wars of the 20th century.

I think from a lot of people's points of view that is not giving up anything. Their separation isn't what caused war. It's the improper division between them that did it. There's not much point to follow the British Empire's borders as they completely ignored cultural and religious and ethnic boundaries. Having even more muslims in a largely hindi country would have caused even bigger problems.

 

[jai6638]

When I was younger, it wasn't cool to think of Gandhi as great either.

Why is that?

 

[athithi]

Originally posted by: jai6638

When I was younger, it wasn't cool to think of Gandhi as great either.

Why is that?

Because he gave "too much away" and was "too peaceful"

Proletariat, from your signature I see that your personality probably draws you away from Gandhism at this point. You may yet surprise yourself some day in the future by how your attitude changes with age

Infohawk,
The concept of a divided India was thrust upon the nation by selfish interests who spread the fear of second-class citizenship amongst the muslim populace. India has the third largest population of Muslims in the world (behind Indonesia and Pakistan) and it is less than 15% of India's population. Yet, the fears spread by the leaders of the Muslim League turned out to be largely unfounded. The current status of the two nations clearly shows that while divided India might have had some inadvertent benefits for the Hindu-majority areas, it was a complete disaster for the Muslim dominated provinces. And I mean both Pakistan and Bangladesh.

 

[athithi]

A Poverty of Dignity and a Wealth of Rage

Another wonderful article by Thomas Friedman - a follow-up to his original article in the OP. There have been other terrorist organizations like the LTTE which have frequently indulged in suicide bombings - but even they have stopped. Ironically, the LTTE is known to have shades of anti-muslim, pro-hindu elements, though nothing even remotely close to the scale of Muslim fundamentalism.

Once again, the issue is not hatred or denigration of Islam. If anything, critics of Muslim fundamentalism frequently go out of their way to acknowledge Islam as a great religion with several important teachings to mankind. But Islam has a problem in its midst and it is ruining the party for the rest of the world by refusing to acknowledge and treat it.

 

[athithi]

Another great link in this thread.

 

[arsbanned]

Originally posted by: conjur
No fatwa against bin Laden, eh? I like Friedman's writing but, in this case, it appears he's missed some news:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,150066,00.html

MADRID, Spain ? Muslim clerics in Spain issued what they called the world's first fatwa (search), or Islamic edict, against Usama bin Laden on Thursday, the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the Al Qaeda (search) leader.

The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country's 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission represents 200 or so mostly Sunni mosques, or about 70 percent of all mosques in Spain.

[...]

The commission's secretary general, Mansur Escudero, said the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco ? home to most of the jailed suspects in the bombings ? Algeria and Libya, and had their support.

"They agree," Escudero said, referring to the Muslim leaders in the three North African countries. "What I want is that they say so publicly."

The fatwa said that according to the Quran "the terrorist acts of Usama bin Laden (search) and his organization Al Qaeda ... are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam."

It added: "Inasmuch as Usama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran ... they are committing the crime of 'istihlal' and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such." The Arabic term 'istihlal' refers to the act of making up one's own laws.

Escudero said a fatwa can be issued by any Muslim leader who leads prayer sessions and as he serves such a role, he himself lawfully issued the edict.

He called it an unprecedented condemnation of bin Laden. "We felt now we had the responsibility and obligation to make this declaration," he said in an interview.

"I hope there is a positive reaction from Muslims," he added.

Asked if the edict meant Muslims had to help police try to arrest the world's most wanted man ? who is believed to be hiding along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan ? Escudero said: "We don't get involved in police affairs but we do feel that all Muslims are obliged to ... keep anyone from doing unjustified damage to other people."

I'd call that a major body.

It begs the question though. Why did it take so long?

Originally posted by: syzygy
exactly. these posturing condemnations that have flooded in, on cue, from various (supposedly reputable) sectors of the muslim world are worthless if there
is no systematic plan of action to incinerate these savages.

if these 'nice' muslims denounce, then they need to feel the urgency to act in their own self-interest, and for the sake of the future of their faith, to stamp out
the extremists who are trying to re-define the nature and role of the religion.

be wary of any 'liberal' traits from the mouths of these condemners (i.e. are they talking out of both sides of their mouths; condemning yes, but also piping in
conditional sympathies for these savages ?). there is no room for fudging, mincing of principle, equivocation, dissimulations, or cowardliness. is this wrong and
intolerable, without qualification, on every level ? yes ? no ? just burn them extra crispy wherever they may found.

Listening to such hyperventilating rhetoric I'm left to wonder who the enemy is?
"Liberal" traits?

Originally posted by: joshsquall

Originally posted by: azazyel
Also, if Jerry Falwell condemed me, I would laugh my arse off.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1012-03.htm

That article saddens me. Falwell is such an idiot. His homebase is only about 2 hours away from where I live, too.

He may be an idiot, but he currently holds great sway in Washington.

 

[mOeeOm]

9/11...the greatest lie ever sold...damn you Bush Why did you make the world hate us? Is Oil that delicious?

 

[maluckey]

Radical Muslims are NOT a U.S. problem per-se. They existed before the United States and will exist so long as Islam is what it is. A fractured body of self interested groups of followers of the same basic tenets. I have always thought of each Muslim group as a Banana Republic, complete with Dictator, and all that goes along with this style of governing. Dictatorships in themselves are not automatically bad. It's the individual leader that makes or breaks it. Unfortunately, human nature being what it is tends to produce more bad dictatorships than good. Even the Romans originally had checks in-place to discourage Dictatorships. Even that didn't last...

The problem can be solved via internal or external controls put in place. Dictators and their cronies rarely enjoy other governments meddling in their affairs. They also rarely reform. Something has to give one way or the other. Either the nations of the world have to step in and severely curtail the freedoms and practices of these groups, or the groups need to set up an organizational structure that makes the leaders accountable for their actions. Either works, but I cannot see these religious leaders giving up their slice of power. It's not in their personal interest.

 

[mOeeOm]

It must be the bad religion.......its just a coincidence these muslims only started doing these ''terrorist'' attacks after Israel invaded Palestine with the help of America....the Quran must have said, act all nice and good until Israel invades with the help of America...it will be a good year for terrorism. Yup, must be a bad religion, has nothing to do with that.