If IP was ended, then manufacturing would be more evenly distributed thru the world

[Anarchist420]

The big corps with patents are the ones shipping the jobs to China, so why do so many people want tariffs to bring jobs back to the U.S. when we could just have patents abolished and have manufacturing more evenly distributed throughout the world?

If a small American business used apple's designs and there were no regulations, then that would probably increase american manufacturing jobs, because they wouldn't have to pay for shipping across the world, they could make a more appropriate amount and as they please (enough, but not too much, so less gets wasted and so less sits on the shelf), etc. The person who could manufacture it the best and the cheapest may not always be in china, so eliminating American IP and regulations is a good step towards bringing some of our jobs back home, rather than tariffs.

Also, if piracy was allowed, then you wouldn't have to be buying packaged physical media from China. Think about all the profit wood producers in china make from the inserts and Bspine, and the plastic of the DVD cases, shipping, etc. Steam and digital downloads, for example, are excellent innovation and it keeps money in America.

IP limits creativity, productivity, real wealth, and is nothing more than a load of Federalist Hamiltonian Clayite Lincolnian mercantilist shit imported from the British Empire.

 

[Infohawk]

I doubt you're being serious but... Chinese are willing to work for much less than any Americans. Even after adopting your changes, they would still produce everything and there wouldn't even be American corporate profits. Nothing in your proposals would increase production in America.

 

[QuantumPion]

If there was no IP then companies would rely on keeping their production methods and designs secret. They would be unwilling to share or cooperate for the sake of compatibility and efficiency. Extra time and effort would go into preventing reverse engineering. This would also heavily burden employment since companies would be very wary of corporate espionage. This would dramatically hurt the manufacturing sector.

 

[drebo]

If there was no IP then companies would rely on keeping their production methods and designs secret. They would be unwilling to share or cooperate for the sake of compatibility and efficiency. Extra time and effort would go into preventing reverse engineering. This would also heavily burden employment since companies would be very wary of corporate espionage. This would dramatically hurt the manufacturing sector.

That's not true. Look at the computer industry, for instance...while it is true that, for a time, each manufacturer competed with its own products, that didn't last long. It also didn't take a government agency to legislate that practice away. Industry agencies, such as ANSI and IEEE, formalized protocols and interoperability requirements and now everyone talks to everyone else. Sure, companies all still go about their business on their own, but interoperability is not a problem, and it didn't take government to make that happen.

That said, I don't believe that IP laws in the US are hurting manufacturing. I think entitlement mentality and runaway inflation of the US dollar are hurting manufacturing. That and NAFTA, anyway.

Why build a plant in the US with high-dollar property, taxes, wages, and permits/fees/redtape when you can build that plant 2000 miles away in Mexico and still not have any import duties to the US?

The US has shot itself in the foot in regards to manufacturing in so many ways that we'll probably never recover. The last two generations (born in the 70s and 80s) with their "everyone goes to college and gets a white-collar job" has been particularly destructive. Blue-collar and vocational work is deemed beneath Americans now, and no one wants to do it any more. Everyone thinks they deserve to sit behind a desk now, regardless of their aptitude (or lack thereof) for such positions.

It's going to take a major, MAJOR shift in mindset before Americans will be willing to do jobs that need to be done, such as manufacturing, janitorial, farming, and other vocational work such as plumbing or electrical. Not everyone can be the engineer behind a project...some people have to build it, too. Not everyone has the brains to be the engineer behind the project...yet that's the prevailing mindset in schools around the nation. It needs to stop.

 

[Siddhartha]

That's not true. Look at the computer industry, for instance...while it is true that, for a time, each manufacturer competed with its own products, that didn't last long. It also didn't take a government agency to legislate that practice away. Industry agencies, such as ANSI and IEEE, formalized protocols and interoperability requirements and now everyone talks to everyone else. Sure, companies all still go about their business on their own, but interoperability is not a problem, and it didn't take government to make that happen.

That said, I don't believe that IP laws in the US are hurting manufacturing. I think entitlement mentality and runaway inflation of the US dollar are hurting manufacturing. That and NAFTA, anyway.

Why build a plant in the US with high-dollar property, taxes, wages, and permits/fees/redtape when you can build that plant 2000 miles away in Mexico and still not have any import duties to the US?

The US has shot itself in the foot in regards to manufacturing in so many ways that we'll probably never recover. The last two generations (born in the 70s and 80s) with their "everyone goes to college and gets a white-collar job" has been particularly destructive. Blue-collar and vocational work is deemed beneath Americans now, and no one wants to do it any more. Everyone thinks they deserve to sit behind a desk now, regardless of their aptitude (or lack thereof) for such positions.

It's going to take a major, MAJOR shift in mindset before Americans will be willing to do jobs that need to be done, such as manufacturing, janitorial, farming, and other vocational work such as plumbing or electrical. Not everyone can be the engineer behind a project...some people have to build it, too. Not everyone has the brains to be the engineer behind the project...yet that's the prevailing mindset in schools around the nation. It needs to stop.

The jobs you mention were done by American citizens before they were exported offshore. The issue is labor cost not "mindset". There would be plenty of jobs in the US if the American worker were willing to work factory jobs for $10 a day.

 

[God Mode]

I'd work for a dollar an hour if it could pay my rent and expenses. How does the median income in the US measure up to purchasing power compared to other 1st world countries? Most charts show me useless shit like how many sodas and big macs I can buy. I want to figure in transportation, insurance and other things of actual relevance and importance.

 

[Doppel]

I doubt you're being serious but... Chinese are willing to work for much less than any Americans. Even after adopting your changes, they would still produce everything and there wouldn't even be American corporate profits. Nothing in your proposals would increase production in America.

The sad thing is, he is being serious.

It's amazing how many ways in which anarchist can be wrong on so many topics. I really do wonder what his education level is.

I'd work for a dollar an hour if it could pay my rent and expenses. How does the median income in the US measure up to purchasing power compared to other 1st world countries? Most charts show me useless shit like how many sodas and big macs I can buy. I want to figure in transportation, insurance and other things of actual relevance and importance.

I don't have the numbers, but it does quite well.

 

[drebo]

The jobs you mention were done by American citizens before they were exported offshore. The issue is labor cost not "mindset". There would be plenty of jobs in the US if the American worker were willing to work factory jobs for $10 a day.

Emphasis added. Hyperbole aside, that is "mindset".

Screwing seats into a car or welding a frame is not $75/hr work. If Americans stopped believing it was, more companies would be willing to employ Americans to do that work.

 

[GlacierFreeze]

OP was the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. wow

 

[Siddhartha]

Emphasis added. Hyperbole aside, that is "mindset".

Screwing seats into a car or welding a frame is not $75/hr work. If Americans stopped believing it was, more companies would be willing to employ Americans to do that work.

How much is screwing seats into a car worth?

 

[Modelworks]

So you are saying a company should spend millions developing a new cpu then just give it away to everyone else for free ?

 

[Anarchist420]

So you are saying a company should spend millions developing a new cpu then just give it away to everyone else for free ?

being first to the market should be enough. be more efficient with your r and d and don't pay your execs and employees more than what the free market allows, and you'll be fine.

 

[nonlnear]

being first to the market should be enough. be more efficient with your r and d and don't pay your execs and employees more than what the free market allows, and you'll be fine.

And make all your researchers sign NDAs and non-compete agreements so that you can effectively have IP in a supposedly IP-free world, right? You do know that's the flip-side of your suggestion, right? Were you willfully ignoring it, or had you honestly not thought of it? I know you wouldn't want a world where government restricted the kind of contracts that corporations and their employees entered into, so what's the deal here?

 

[BoredWork]

in a perfect world things like this wouldnt be a problem and we would all hold hands and sing songs. dogs and cats would live together. but, in the real world...corporate greed makes the world go round.

 

[uclaLabrat]

I'm drunk and I clicked on an anarchist thread before I realized.

But no, if IP didn't exist, a lot of inventions would not exist or be brought to market, simply because it would not be profitable to do so. As it is, there are many revolutions that probably exist, but haven't been brought to market, simply because they're too expensive.

 

[Anarchist420]

And make all your researchers sign NDAs and non-compete agreements so that you can effectively have IP in a supposedly IP-free world, right? You do know that's the flip-side of your suggestion, right? Were you willfully ignoring it, or had you honestly not thought of it? I know you wouldn't want a world where government restricted the kind of contracts that corporations and their employees entered into, so what's the deal here?

Government has no right to enforce contracts, but individuals do so I don't see your point.

Infoanarchy makes a lot more sense than IP.

 

[shira]

being first to the market should be enough. be more efficient with your r and d and don't pay your execs and employees more than what the free market allows, and you'll be fine.

Riiiigghhhht. A novelist spends two years writing a novel. The publisher does a market-saturation first publish. However, within one hour, the novel is copied on the web, and downloads are 25 cents.

Songwriters and movie-makers would enjoy similar "benefits."

Sounds like a real winner to me.

Edit: Oh, and imagine how wonderful our lives would be when drugmakers - after spending the typical seven years and a billion dollars bringing drugs to market, requiring that the drugs be sold for $3 a pill to cover costs and make a profit - find that within six months of a drug being approved by the FDA, Indian and Chinese drug manufacturers are making and selling the pill for 10 cents apiece. Yeah, just imagine how many innovative drugs will be produced with no Intellectual Property rights for protection.