Barnaby W. Füi
Elite Member
Ah, I did not see your edit. Prior to that, you only spoke in terms of "I cannot," etc.
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If God is omnipotent and omnibenevolent, why does he allow suffering?
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Ah, I did not see your edit. Prior to that, you only spoke in terms of "I cannot," etc.
Didn't want to go into a religious debate in another forum, but might as well let you guys see what we do over at infidels.org =0)
God himself created man and woman and placed them in a garden, in "his own image", but got righteously angry at them when they ate, against his wish, and after being tempted by a talking serpent that god himself had somehow allowed to slither about in the garden, a tasty, beautiful fruit, though he himself had placed it there but neglected to instill in his creations the knowledge of good and evil so that they would know it was wrong to eat it. Being omniscient, of course, he knew all this before he started, but was apparently unable to do anything about it because he had planned it this way from the beginning, and apparently god cannot change anything he already knows, in spite of the fact that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.
Later, God himself impregnated a virgin so that he himself could be born a human, a ManGod. This was necessary, apparently, because only his own ManGod blood could appease himself and deliver humans, who he created, and who he knew would muck things up by eating the fruit, from his own righteous anger.
Of course, he waited several thousand years to implement this divine plan, in the meantime taking the righteous action of drowning every creature on the planet except a few he could stuff on a boat. Not to mention handing down a Law that served to further condemn every one of us, and in which Law he himself had them frequently sacrifice animals to appease himself, though he knew the blood of animals didn't really appease himself.
Much later, god, in a garden, prayed to himself to "take this cup" away from himself, though he himself knew that he himself had planned the coming events from the beginning and knew that not even he himself could save himself, even though he was god and omnipotent, omniscient, etc. Accepting this, he said, in effect, "Not my will, but my will."
God then sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. (or had himself sacrificed; not much of a distinction between the two, really) Before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself.
He himself, being dead, then raised himself from the dead less than 40 hours later, though he himself had said he'd be dead for three days and three nights, which he could do because he was still alive, and later he himself pulled himself up into heaven where he himself apparently already was, and where he himself is described as now sitting at the right hand of himself.
He himself then sent himself (or a ghost of himself, if you please) back to earth to be a comfort to us, though he himself is still sitting at the right hand of himself.
And, glory hallelujah, he himself promised that he himself will return someday, though he himself is already here, and will still be there, to snatch up those who believe the god blood sacrifice story he himself told us, and kill the rest of us who don't believe the god blood sacrifice story, no matter how nice we were otherwise. But, since killing us isn't enough to appease his righteousness, he himself will then judge us, though according to ManGod he himself will also not judge us, and being a god of love will cast most of us into hell for an eternity of suffering. He has to, of course, because he is a righteous, just god, and can't figure out a way to save anyone who hasn't been redeemed by god-blood, even though he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and loves us all.
God himself created man and woman and placed them in a garden, in "his own image", but got righteously angry at them when they ate, against his wish, and after being tempted by a talking serpent that god himself had somehow allowed to slither about in the garden, a tasty, beautiful fruit, though he himself had placed it there but neglected to instill in his creations the knowledge of good and evil so that they would know it was wrong to eat it. Being omniscient, of course, he knew all this before he started, but was apparently unable to do anything about it because he had planned it this way from the beginning, and apparently god cannot change anything he already knows, in spite of the fact that he's omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent.
Later, God himself impregnated a virgin so that he himself could be born a human, a ManGod. This was necessary, apparently, because only his own ManGod blood could appease himself and deliver humans, who he created, and who he knew would muck things up by eating the fruit, from his own righteous anger.
Of course, he waited several thousand years to implement this divine plan, in the meantime taking the righteous action of drowning every creature on the planet except a few he could stuff on a boat. Not to mention handing down a Law that served to further condemn every one of us, and in which Law he himself had them frequently sacrifice animals to appease himself, though he knew the blood of animals didn't really appease himself.
Much later, god, in a garden, prayed to himself to "take this cup" away from himself, though he himself knew that he himself had planned the coming events from the beginning and knew that not even he himself could save himself, even though he was god and omnipotent, omniscient, etc. Accepting this, he said, in effect, "Not my will, but my will."
God then sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. (or had himself sacrificed; not much of a distinction between the two, really) Before dying, he himself asked he himself why he had forsaken himself.
He himself, being dead, then raised himself from the dead less than 40 hours later, though he himself had said he'd be dead for three days and three nights, which he could do because he was still alive, and later he himself pulled himself up into heaven where he himself apparently already was, and where he himself is described as now sitting at the right hand of himself.
He himself then sent himself (or a ghost of himself, if you please) back to earth to be a comfort to us, though he himself is still sitting at the right hand of himself.
And, glory hallelujah, he himself promised that he himself will return someday, though he himself is already here, and will still be there, to snatch up those who believe the god blood sacrifice story he himself told us, and kill the rest of us who don't believe the god blood sacrifice story, no matter how nice we were otherwise. But, since killing us isn't enough to appease his righteousness, he himself will then judge us, though according to ManGod he himself will also not judge us, and being a god of love will cast most of us into hell for an eternity of suffering. He has to, of course, because he is a righteous, just god, and can't figure out a way to save anyone who hasn't been redeemed by god-blood, even though he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, and loves us all.
LordMagnusKain
Banned
but you don't want to be redeemed... it would go against the very nature of your free will to force redemption on you.
CptObvious
Platinum Member
I don't really buy into the concept of a benevolent god, if there is one at all. I can't reconcile that with a god that would let millions of people die horrible deaths in the Holocaust, for example, or Rwanda, or where ever.
Sometimes it's unbearably depressing thinking there's no one out there and there's nothing after this life, but then I ask myself, I am believing in a god just because I want to avoid thinking about it? And the answer is always yes. Life was much easier when I believed in a god, but just because it's convenient for me doesn't make it the truth.
Sometimes it's unbearably depressing thinking there's no one out there and there's nothing after this life, but then I ask myself, I am believing in a god just because I want to avoid thinking about it? And the answer is always yes. Life was much easier when I believed in a god, but just because it's convenient for me doesn't make it the truth.
No, most of us don't believe it because the idea of a big guy in the sky is laughable. Amazing that so many people simply do / believe what they're told, but then that human trait explains things like AOL being the world's #1 ISP; advertising tells them to use it, and so they do. It ties in with laziness I guess, it's a good way of avoiding thought. Not that all religious people are drones, but many are as religion can be used as a crutch in that respect, and often is.
Well, I decided to think about this one for a bit. I suppose god would allow suffering and evil so human beings would have a choice to begin with. If everything was always good, how would you have any choice other than good. When you have both good and evil, you are presenting to choices that we can choose from. Free will would be sort of pointless if there was only good or evil, but not both. Also, I think life would be much less fulfilling if you didn't go through the bad to appreciate the good. You could also wonder if we would even have things like compassion if there was no pain, hardship, etc.
It's not really a simple to answer question I suppose.
🙂
It's not really a simple to answer question I suppose.
🙂
LordMagnusKain
Banned
so why degenerate the idea of God into a farce of the true intent of the spiritual meaning like that?
that?s why I posted my thoughts for and asked it of, the smartest community I know 🙂
LordMagnusKain
Banned
Ok? I admit it, you?ve just proven that God hates humanity.
Chronoshock
Diamond Member
I don't believe in god. Religious people would probably say "It's God's will, and his will is mysterious. Who are we, as mere mortals to question his well?" and stupid crap like that. That's just religious-speak for "we don't have a fvcking clue"
LordMagnusKain
Banned
I don?t call God a big boogie man in the sky, I don?t think of God like that.
Few do.
Thinking of God like that and calling it a joke is crating your own God to laugh at, not actually laughing at the ideas held by people of faith.
So why would you do that? Why not respond to the true ideas of the infinite creator that defines truth from which we as humans have fallen away in our selfish and self-worshiping acts?
Lost me again in your last sentence...
As far as terming it the way I did, do you honestly not even see how you trampled beliefs which don't coincide with your own? I hate to pull the "typical hypocritical Christian" card, but what else is "suffering is one of the central emotional reasons people use to have faith that God doesn't exist."? That's my belief (and that of many others, a thankfully growing number at that) every bit as much as god is yours. Yet you can in good conscience tell me that I believe the way I do for a single, petty reason while getting huffy and indignant when I question you... really is typical :roll: That's another huge reason for Atheism, by the way - no one likes a hypocrite.
As far as the ideas that religion tries to convey, less successfully with the passage of time, I mostly agree with them. After all, religion as it was originally created and I have much the same thing in mind - advancement of the human species. What humans have done with it (turned it into a hypocritical power-hungry organization which holds back our advancement more than it promotes it) is quite another story...
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