If GM folds....

[thomsbrain]

Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

 

[desy]

Sorry C&D?

LOL

That test is performance, Camry has never come close to winning that comparision and they sell the most.

 

[Pocatello]

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

C&D will almost always put Honda first. The Honda Accord is good, but not the greatest 4-door sedan ever , according to C&D

 

[LOUISSSSS]

the Big 3 should all just merge together and be the "little 1" and fight against all the imports from BMW, MB, Japan, Korea.
Don't people wonder why they're begging for money? ITS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY, WHY? BECAUSE THEIR CARS SUCK?

I dont believe the Malibu has ever won any comparison test against all of its major competitors.
and why are the japanese and german beating the americans at their own game? At making trucks, aka "sport utility vehicles."

 

[zoiks]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
the Big 3 should all just merge together and be the "little 1" and fight against all the imports from BMW, MB, Japan, Korea.
Don't people wonder why they're begging for money? ITS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY, WHY? BECAUSE THEIR CARS SUCK?

I dont believe the Malibu has ever won any comparison test against all of its major competitors.
and why are the japanese and german beating the americans at their own game? At making trucks, aka "sport utility vehicles."

Not one thing that you wrote makes sense. In fact your post above is representative of all the posts you've made so far.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
the Big 3 should all just merge together and be the "little 1" and fight against all the imports from BMW, MB, Japan, Korea.
Don't people wonder why they're begging for money? ITS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY, WHY? BECAUSE THEIR CARS SUCK?

I dont believe the Malibu has ever won any comparison test against all of its major competitors.
and why are the japanese and german beating the americans at their own game? At making trucks, aka "sport utility vehicles."

Not one thing that you wrote makes sense. In fact your post above is representative of all the posts you've made so far.

But he must be right -- he used caps!

And the irony of him constantly bringing up the Malibu is that it keeps beating almost every car. The only one that consistently beats it is the Accord. The part he doesn't understand is that no one is arguing that Honda isn't a good company. At most, some argue that it's a bit boring. And what company keeps losing in a lot of these comaprisons? Toyota.

 

[ballmode]

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

C&D will almost always put Honda first. The Honda Accord is good, but not the greatest 4-door sedan ever , according to C&D

*Ahem*

BMW employee hands C&D money

*walks away*

BMW is always the car to buy so says C&D!

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: ballmode

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

C&D will almost always put Honda first. The Honda Accord is good, but not the greatest 4-door sedan ever , according to C&D

*Ahem*

BMW employee hands C&D money

*walks away*

BMW is always the car to buy so says C&D!

C&D has a big hardon for Corvettes though. They always place the Corvette top even above the Lambo.

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
the Big 3 should all just merge together and be the "little 1" and fight against all the imports from BMW, MB, Japan, Korea.
Don't people wonder why they're begging for money? ITS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY, WHY? BECAUSE THEIR CARS SUCK?

I dont believe the Malibu has ever won any comparison test against all of its major competitors.
and why are the japanese and german beating the americans at their own game? At making trucks, aka "sport utility vehicles."

Ford has improved their quality a lot.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

i can almost guarantee that if GM fails, the US will lose all relevance in the auto biz to the japanese. much like the electronics industry.

 

[JMapleton]

Even if GM goes bankrupt the brands of GM will not go bankrupt, they will be resold or restructured into a new company (General Motors the 2nd).

People who bought Chevy's and Cadillacs before will still buy them.

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: zoiks

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
the Big 3 should all just merge together and be the "little 1" and fight against all the imports from BMW, MB, Japan, Korea.
Don't people wonder why they're begging for money? ITS BECAUSE THEY DON'T MAKE ANY MONEY, WHY? BECAUSE THEIR CARS SUCK?

I dont believe the Malibu has ever won any comparison test against all of its major competitors.
and why are the japanese and german beating the americans at their own game? At making trucks, aka "sport utility vehicles."

Not one thing that you wrote makes sense. In fact your post above is representative of all the posts you've made so far.

But he must be right -- he used caps!

And the irony of him constantly bringing up the Malibu is that it keeps beating almost every car. The only one that consistently beats it is the Accord. The part he doesn't understand is that no one is arguing that Honda isn't a good company. At most, some argue that it's a bit boring. And what company keeps losing in a lot of these comaprisons? Toyota.

He is definitely wong.

 

[KentState]

I know as someone that has a GM employee discount, I've found it hard to find a car that I like. Luckily, the last two times I had the GTO and the CTS. I also can get employee pricing on Ford/Mazda, but I would have to go Infiniti or BMW if GM did fold.

 

[Bignate603]

GM won't completely fold, but it may hit bankruptcy. The government was talking a while ago about a 'soft landing' bankruptcy where they would take more of a lead on how it went and guarantee that it would survive. Their thinking was that with the government backing to guarantee the company would survive it would help people have enough confidence to keep buying cars. A huge issue with GM's situation is that people are scared about buying a car from a company that's doing really poorly, making it do even worse.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
GM won't completely fold, but it may hit bankruptcy. The government was talking a while ago about a 'soft landing' bankruptcy where they would take more of a lead on how it went and guarantee that it would survive. Their thinking was that with the government backing to guarantee the company would survive it would help people have enough confidence to keep buying cars. A huge issue with GM's situation is that people are scared about buying a car from a company that's doing really poorly, making it do even worse.

People aren't buying cars in general. But people keep saying "not buying GM," which isn't exactly true. GM is still selling a huge amount of cars. I think sometimes people just don't realize how far ahead GM and Toyota really are compared to the other companies. If you don't include the Nissan-Renault alliance (as in, combine both their figures), the closest companies are Ford and VW -- each with around three million less (that's more than most companies manufacture). And after that, you have Honda with a bit under four million and it goes down steadily after that.

Now you have GM desperately needing to restructure and improve itself to reduce a lot of waste in a seriously shitty economy. I don't know what GM's predictions were, but I can go off of Toyota's (when it comes down to it, both of them have similar capability -- just quite a bit different execution). Last year, each company sold around 9.5 million vehicles. Toyota was expecting to sell over ten million before everything went sour. Their latest estimate is close to eight million. GM is probably pretty close, as their lines are actually pretty similar.

I'm not sure how a "soft" bankruptcy would work, but I guess anything is worth a try. But when Toyota is making drastic cuts and seeing quite a bit of potential hurt and were posting huge profits just last year, I just don't know how much money it would take. But as I said earlier, I don't think people fully grasp how big GM really is compared to every other company (except Toyota, of course).

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ballmode

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

C&D will almost always put Honda first. The Honda Accord is good, but not the greatest 4-door sedan ever , according to C&D

*Ahem*

BMW employee hands C&D money

*walks away*

BMW is always the car to buy so says C&D!

C&D's opinions on BMW are completely irrelevant. BMW could put dead babies into the manufacturing process and C&D would laud them for it.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: ballmode

Originally posted by: Pocatello

Originally posted by: thomsbrain
Ford could benefit a bit, but I think a lot of GM faithful would rather look at imports than the blue oval. And those that don't skip the ford dealership entirely may do test-drives of the imports, in which case they will almost certainly be buying the imports.

The winning Accord and runner-up Mazda6 beat out the latest Fusion in Car and Driver's last comparo. The Fusion was touted by many on these boards as amazing and proof that Ford has taken the lead in design quality. Apparently they were overly optimistic.

C&D will almost always put Honda first. The Honda Accord is good, but not the greatest 4-door sedan ever , according to C&D

*Ahem*

BMW employee hands C&D money

*walks away*

BMW is always the car to buy so says C&D!

C&D's opinions on BMW are completely irrelevant. BMW could put dead babies into the manufacturing process and C&D would laud them for it.

Is that an option for seat covers?

GM needs to trim the fat. Say bye-bye to GMC (this way the 1500 series will show as the number one selling truck), Pontiac, Buick, Saturn all need to go.
It should be Chevy and Cadiilac.

 

[Squisher]

Originally posted by: JMapleton
Even if GM goes bankrupt the brands of GM will not go bankrupt, they will be resold or restructured into a new company (General Motors the 2nd).

People who bought Chevy's and Cadillacs before will still buy them.

That is incorrect.

I don't see how it would even be possible given the shared components in so many brands and, what would you be buying? The name? The blueprints to the cars + some assembly plants? Where would you get the parts considering a ton of suppliers will fold too?


GM has only a few routes to go:

1. bailout and restructure
2. bankruptcy with the government providing the $100+ billion in DIP money and restructure.
3. Chapter 7, liquidation. (costing the US $300+ billion in lost taxes, social programs, etc.)

GM has argued previously and presented in their 2/17 restructuring plan why #2 is less viable than #1. You are basically putting up the absolute force that a bankruptcy judge can impose against the loss in public confidence people will have when they choose a vehicle from a bankrupt automaker.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
GM needs to trim the fat. Say bye-bye to GMC (this way the 1500 series will show as the number one selling truck), Pontiac, Buick, Saturn all need to go.
It should be Chevy and Cadiilac.

:| Saturn has been making some good cars but no one knows about them. When is the last time you saw an ad for a Saturn?

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
GM needs to trim the fat. Say bye-bye to GMC (this way the 1500 series will show as the number one selling truck), Pontiac, Buick, Saturn all need to go.
It should be Chevy and Cadiilac.

:| Saturn has been making some good cars but no one knows about them. When is the last time you saw an ad for a Saturn?

Well, isn't Saturn going to be spun off as it's own entity anyways? If it is, then GM is making the right decision.

If someone wants to buy the other brands, good, it's more cash for GM to keeps it's head above water. Buick is the luxury car to have in China. Let them have it. Buick in America is for old people. GMC is nothing but rebadged Chevy trucks and SUV's. Completely pointless to have around.

Pontiac, while they have some nice cars, there's no reason they can't have a Bow-tie on them

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
GM needs to trim the fat. Say bye-bye to GMC (this way the 1500 series will show as the number one selling truck), Pontiac, Buick, Saturn all need to go.
It should be Chevy and Cadiilac.

:| Saturn has been making some good cars but no one knows about them. When is the last time you saw an ad for a Saturn?

Well, isn't Saturn going to be spun off as it's own entity anyways? If it is, then GM is making the right decision.

If someone wants to buy the other brands, good, it's more cash for GM to keeps it's head above water. Buick is the luxury car to have in China. Let them have it. Buick in America is for old people. GMC is nothing but rebadged Chevy trucks and SUV's. Completely pointless to have around.

Pontiac, while they have some nice cars, there's no reason they can't have a Bow-tie on them

the G8 would look terrible with a bowtie. honestly, i'd say keep pontiac as their performance brand and make only a select few models. hell, just import holdens and make 1-2 trim levels per car.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski
Well, isn't Saturn going to be spun off as it's own entity anyways? If it is, then GM is making the right decision.

They're making the wrong decision, but they need to eliminate brands and Saturn is the whipping boy. The Saturn brand will cease to exist. Around here Saturn showrooms are packed. They're selling a ton of them compared to the other divisions. They've got the product and the payment buyers want.

Buick in America is for old people.

Hah! You're showing your age. Who do you think holds the most wealth in this country - young people? You need to sell what sells. That's Buick and Cadillac.

GMC is nothing but rebadged Chevy trucks and SUV's. Completely pointless to have around.

For the umpteenth time, GMC is not being kept to compete with Chevy, it's being kept to continue making and selling profitable commercial vehicles.

Edit: IMO, they're not going to survive anyway making these arguments pointless.