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If computers, cars, etc. have designers why not the universe?

A

Arkitech

Diamond Member
Obviously any talk of God in this forum is subject to ridicule. However you have to admit that if houses, automobiles and computers all have designers which are less complex than say DNA, the human brain and molecules. Isn't there a slight possibility that there may be a designer behind those things as well?


Can universal laws come about from chaos?

Can order be birthed from disorder?

The universe is governed by very precise laws, is it possible that it all happened by pure coincidence or chance?
 
Arkitech said:
Obviously any talk of God in this forum is subject to ridicule. However you have to admit that if houses, automobiles and computers all have designers which are less complex than say DNA, the human brain and molecules. Isn't there a slight possibility that there may be a designer behind those things as well?


Can universal laws come about from chaos?

Can order be birthed from disorder?

The universe is governed by very precise laws, is it possible that it all happened by pure coincidence or chance?
Click to expand...

:whiste: Lawn chairs only $5! Popcorn $0.99!
 
"Then how did the designer come about?"

"Because of X."

"Then the universe could have come about because of X, no god necessary."
 
Arkitech said:
Obviously any talk of God in this forum is subject to ridicule.
Click to expand...

memes-if-jesus-was-gods-only-son.jpg
 
In which case evolution may be part of the design, no? Stars evolve, planets evolve, galaxies evolve, universes evolve. Seems to be a common process....almost a natural law.
Hmmmmm
 
Thomas Aquinas also made this argument as part of his proofs of the existence of God. It doesn't hold up any better coming from you than it did from him.
 
OK, I'll play. The Flying Spaghetti Monster designed all this. That right there, is just as valid as any of your God designed theories.
 
PieIsAwesome said:
"Then how did the designer come about?"

"Because of X."

"Then the universe could have come about because of X, no god necessary."
Click to expand...

Maybe it's silly to apply the concept of existence to something outside of our reality that could have created the rules allowing our reality to exist.
 
CoachB said:
In which case evolution may be part of the design, no? Stars evolve, planets evolve, galaxies evolve, universes evolve. Seems to be a common process....almost a natural law.
Hmmmmm
Click to expand...


SlitheryDee said:
Thomas Aquinas also made this argument as part of his proofs of the existence of God. It doesn't hold up any better coming from you than it did from him.
Click to expand...


If someone drove up to you on a Kawasaki style motorcycle and said that it evolved from from an acorn there is no doubt in my mind that you would think that they were either an idiot or higher than the stratosphere. So why is it such a stretch to think that a universe of such intricate complex laws could not have a designer? I'm not saying that you have to believe in a God, but is the concept so ridiculous that it merits no consideration.



If a friend of yours said that the latest version of the android software had no designer/programmer but evolved by itself into existence there would obviously be some type of investigation into that claim. And since software is without a doubt many times less complex than biological life or the framework of the known universe, is it really such an idiotic thought to think that perhaps it could be an intelligent designer for the world and the universe that we see around us?
 
Yes, if some creator exists, who created it? Who gave it "order from disorder"?

"It just always existed"

Then so could the multiverse.
 
SSSnail said:
OK, I'll play. The Flying Spaghetti Monster designed all this. That right there, is just as valid as any of your God designed theories.
Click to expand...

You can call a flying spaghetti monster the masterful toe fungus of all inherent reality or attribute it to butter cup of the power puff girls. However if a nike gym shoe or a j crew sweater needs a designer, is it really such a stretch of imagination to believe that a complex being such as a human or the law of gravity would not also need a designer?
 
Arkitech said:
Obviously any talk of God in this forum is subject to ridicule. However you have to admit that if houses, automobiles and computers all have designers which are less complex than say DNA, the human brain and molecules. Isn't there a slight possibility that there may be a designer behind those things as well?


Can universal laws come about from chaos?

Can order be birthed from disorder?

The universe is governed by very precise laws, is it possible that it all happened by pure coincidence or chance?
Click to expand...

I posted this in another thread but it seems relevant here:
All you need are natural laws and time.

By known you mean other than abiogenesis and it's follow on evolution, right?

And as to your pile of metal rubber making an air plane:

Did you know if you leave a whole bunch of hydrogen sitting around its gravity will condense and heat it becoming a star?

Did you know that that star will fuse that hydrogen into helium, then lithium and berilyium, all the way up to iron?

Did you know that a star can't fuse iron to support itself so it goes nova creating the rest of the table of elements?

And then the gravity of all these atoms will coalesce again into a star and planets. Where all 92 of those elements will combine in a quadrillion quadrillion different reactions over the next billion and a half years to form huge numbers of chemicals including the basic organic building blocks of RNA & DNA.

And then trillions of organic chemical reactions across millions of different environmental factors will eventually lead to single cell life. Life made from inanimate materials that came from a star.

And that life will evolve though the non-random process of natural selection of organisms with inheritable traits until 3 billion years later humans mine a bunch of aluminum created by a star and build an airplane.

You were wrong about a pile metal becoming an airplane. You needed to start with hydrogen.
Click to expand...
 
DaveSimmons said:
Yes, if some creator exists, who created it? Who gave it "order from disorder"?

"It just always existed"

Then so could the multiverse.
Click to expand...

That's just the thing, we can't always apply our reasoning/understanding of the universe around us. Centuries ago there were many people who could'nt wrap their head around the concept that the Earth was not flat. Just because they could'nt comprehend the fact that the Earth was round and circular did not make it true.
 
Yay, my favorite thread! Superstition meets science. People argue for pages at a time, and no one gets their mind changed. It then gets carefully packed away in the cedar chest, to be brought out again. I guess it's back for round 643.
 
Why only one "God" or higher power?

In any case, I'll consider the idea whenever any evidence of such comes to light. So far there is none; just a lot of talk from religious folk who so desperately want to believe in a higher power.
 
Can universal laws come about from chaos?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Can order be birthed from disorder?
Click to expand...
Yes.

The universe is governed by very precise laws, is it possible that it all happened by pure coincidence or chance?
Click to expand...
Yes.

But your questions are full of stupid.

Can universal laws come about from a creator?
Click to expand...
Yes.
Can order be birthed from a creator?
Click to expand...
Yes.

The universe is governed by very precise laws, is it possible that it all happened by will of a creator?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Isn't there a slight possibility that there may be a designer behind those things as well?
Click to expand...
Yes.


Denial that this is as asinine as your assumption that something out of chaos proves God.
 
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