If AMD wins the Antitrust lawsuit...

[JDCentral]

I see..

I was thinking that maybe Intel made their compilers, but weren't optimizing them for AMD hardware.

I'm sure it can be taken both ways 🙂

 

[Duvie]

Originally posted by: JDCentral
I have a question about this - obviously intel was doing some poor business practice stuff (using their monolopilistic status to gain leverage over other companies), but what's this thing about designing "its compilers... to degrade a program?s performance if operated on a computer powered by an AMD microprocessor."?

To me, it seems that Intel can do whatever-the-hell it wants to with it's compilers - Intel created the x86 ISA, right? So where does it say, anywhere, that they need to design their compilers to run on a competitor's chip that runs x86 instructions?

It seems kinda bass-ackwards to me... AMD can make their own damn compilers if they want better x86 performance.

I'm a total AMD fanboy, and have been since the original Athlon... but the last point seems kind of moot.

The rest will probably hold ground, though.

Not when the accusation is that it recognizes it is not an Intel then degrades...It would be different if AMD created something totallty different and expected INtel to code for them. This is dirty ball no matter how you stack it...

there is a good article on this where it says the program after it detects the AMD chips creates a large bloated file that is too large to load into cache and therefore has to be partially loaded into the systems ram, causing a major penalty.

 

[Bona Fide]

So you guys think Intel will have to pay AMD for "compensation of losses"? I just thought Intel would be taking a huge pay cut or something. And they would have to swear off the whole "threatening" business, for good.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Duvie

Originally posted by: JDCentral
I have a question about this - obviously intel was doing some poor business practice stuff (using their monolopilistic status to gain leverage over other companies), but what's this thing about designing "its compilers... to degrade a program?s performance if operated on a computer powered by an AMD microprocessor."?

To me, it seems that Intel can do whatever-the-hell it wants to with it's compilers - Intel created the x86 ISA, right? So where does it say, anywhere, that they need to design their compilers to run on a competitor's chip that runs x86 instructions?

It seems kinda bass-ackwards to me... AMD can make their own damn compilers if they want better x86 performance.

I'm a total AMD fanboy, and have been since the original Athlon... but the last point seems kind of moot.

The rest will probably hold ground, though.

Not when the accusation is that it recognizes it is not an Intel then degrades...It would be different if AMD created something totallty different and expected INtel to code for them. This is dirty ball no matter how you stack it...

there is a good article on this where it says the program after it detects the AMD chips creates a large bloated file that is too large to load into cache and therefore has to be partially loaded into the systems ram, causing a major penalty.

Yup it's a cumulative pattern of all the anti-competitive practices combined that will get intel, this is just another. One by itself is not enough, which is why I suspect AMD waited so long to build a air tight case. Remeber also part of the original agreement of IBM's acceptance of Intels x86 design was they must share to the second provider, AMD. This definity violates the spirit of the original agreement.

 

[Zebo]

Interesting info Viditor...definity a case to watch.🙂

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: clarkey01
how far would a 2 Billion go with AMD?

What are thier current debts ?

New fab ?, some RnD, Tv's ad's, some debt gone.

More likely to be one billion, if that...to be honest I have no idea lol.

Well's Fargo is making a prediction which if you do the math works out to AMD winning as much as 4 Billion dollars from their lawsuit.
http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/markets/2005/06/28/0628automarketscan14.html

While this would be a huge amount of money, Intel can afford to pay out if they lose. It would allow AMD to build an entire new fab and still have some money left over for some of those other things you mentioned.

Edit: Slighly miscalculated the amount initially.

 

[Bona Fide]

Sorry if I sound stupid...but what's a "fab"?

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Sorry if I sound stupid...but what's a "fab"?

A "Fab" is slang for Fabrication Plant. That is where the chips are actually manufactured. And where some amazing technology is put to work every day.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Sorry if I sound stupid...but what's a "fab"?

A fab is a factory for producing integrated circuits. It is a short form of "fabrication". Another term commonly used is semiconductor foundry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fab

Basicly, the ones that Intel and AMD use to produce their latest microprocessors cost billions of dollars to build, and to boot they eventully become obsolete and a new one has to be built if the company wants to keep on the cutting edge of manufacturing. Fabs are actually one of the largest costs in the PC microprocessor business, and this issue huge obsticle for any company interested in entering the market and producing microprocessors for PCs. Right now, AMD just has a single fab specifically producing its microprocessors, with work proceeding on building another one.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Aegeon

Originally posted by: clarkey01
how far would a 2 Billion go with AMD?

What are thier current debts ?

New fab ?, some RnD, Tv's ad's, some debt gone.

More likely to be one billion, if that...to be honest I have no idea lol.

Well's Fargo is making a prediction which if you do the math works out to AMD winning as much as 4.7 Billion dollars from their lawsuit.
http://www.forbes.com/home_asia/markets/2005/06/28/0628automarketscan14.html

While this would be a huge amount of money, Intel can afford to pay out if they lose. It would allow AMD to build an entire new fab and still have some money left over for some of those other things you mentioned.

If they did get that kind of dough, they could build a couple fabs and payoff some debt all at once. I'll believe it when it happens though. 😉

 

[Zebo]

So when do they actually ask for the cash money? I mean so far this "compliant" ask for nothing. When do they ask for anything?

 

[Duvie]

Tha japanese lawsuit asked for 50 million....I think since it will be a jury trial the jury will set both PUNITIVE and COMPENSATORY damages...Knowing how jury awards are in the states it could be huge!!! On the other hand they are usually appealed and reduced down....

 

[Zebo]

Knowing how jury awards are in the states it could be huge!!!

LOL only if you have a bunch of kids in the court room crying about thier dead momma who voluntarly smoked 4 packs a day.:roll:

AMD has no big emotional pull to juries.. Pretty dry case I'm sure to sit on.

 

[Duvie]

I am seeing little guy who has been beaten and robbed!!! Could go over well...Ppl love the underdog...the david versus goliath!!!

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Zebo
So when do they actually ask for the cash money? I mean so far this "compliant" ask for nothing. When do they ask for anything?

After the discovery phase...they usually use discovery to determine the extent of damages. In the case of Japan, discovery was already made by the JFTC...

 

[Duvie]

Alright I think we got a bit of an expert in viditor!!!

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Duvie
Alright I think we got a bit of an expert in viditor!!!

😱

Just please remember...IANAL!!
I am an investor, and I do an awful lot of research!
So take what I say with a grain of salt, please...

(didn't think of it, but someone asked on another board what IANAL means...I Am Not A Lawyer...)

 

[Zebo]

I don't do enough...So when do you think my intel stock I bought at $29 will break even again? I've held that shat for two years now, in the hole. My dad said buy it after I lost a bunch on AMD right before that.:roll:

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Zebo
I don't do enough...So when do you think my intel stock I bought at $29 will break even again? I've held that shat for two years now, in the hole. My dad said buy it after I lost a bunch on AMD right before that.:roll:

I sold mine on yesterdays bump...I now have AMD and NVDA as my only semi stocks.
I have a LOT of AMD...about a third of what Hector Ruiz owns (of course I don't have is options...drewl).

Don't worry whether you're even or not, ask yourself if you had to buy a stock today, what would it be? The problem most investors have is that they get too attached to a stock (i.e., they want to wait until they break even).

 

[edmundoab]

no Intel won't fall so easily