I didn't read through all 48 pages of the lawsuit file, and maybe it wasn't even in there. But does anyone know what's going to happen to Intel if AMD wins this lawsuit? The logical guess is that AMD will get a fairer holding in the computer manufacturer's market. But Intel could also go under, seeing as this is "one of several" antitrust cases they've had to face. I personally do NOT want Intel to go under, as competition is the only thing that's keeping AMD prices so low. Without Intel, AMD can raise prices all they want.
If AMD wins the Antitrust lawsuit...
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I don't think Intel will go under, and AMD won't rise the prices all they want. Who in their right minds would pay $500 for a processor, even if there is no other? Nobody would.
I cannot imagine that the lawsuit will ever present AMD with enough compensation for trebled damages to seriously injure Intel, even if successful.
Intel can afford to pay tens of billions. In my mind the proper sum should be about $51 billion.
AMD prevailing, there's still going to be several zeros missing from that. No need to worry about Intel.
Worry about companies still going to be able to continue that kind of practice. Maybe even Intel.
Worry about AMD still going under instead, and you ending up with having to pay $2000 for anything beyond pedestrian performance from Intel instead. Even if AMD wins, it's still far more likely.
Worry about computing progressing at the same pace as space activity has since Moon landing 1969.
Intel NEEDS a huge dent. And antitrust work in general can do with a bit of progress.
Intel can afford to pay tens of billions. In my mind the proper sum should be about $51 billion.
AMD prevailing, there's still going to be several zeros missing from that. No need to worry about Intel.
Worry about companies still going to be able to continue that kind of practice. Maybe even Intel.
Worry about AMD still going under instead, and you ending up with having to pay $2000 for anything beyond pedestrian performance from Intel instead. Even if AMD wins, it's still far more likely.
Worry about computing progressing at the same pace as space activity has since Moon landing 1969.
Intel NEEDS a huge dent. And antitrust work in general can do with a bit of progress.
AMD will win but it may not be a black and white win and most seem to agree this will be settled out of the courts...
Al Intel really has to do is likely stop tactics and alow AMD to OEM markets and this is all over...It will cost INtel moeny for the bottom line but their bottom line is soooo huge it wont hurt them other then a stock price hit....
Have you guys seen the link where the wall sreet buys think AMD has a 75% to win and therefore they have upgraded AMD stock as a good buy since they beleive the shae following an AMD win will rise 8-12 bucks at least....That puts it at INtel level though Intel will likely take a few dollar hit if there is any large payout....
Al Intel really has to do is likely stop tactics and alow AMD to OEM markets and this is all over...It will cost INtel moeny for the bottom line but their bottom line is soooo huge it wont hurt them other then a stock price hit....
Have you guys seen the link where the wall sreet buys think AMD has a 75% to win and therefore they have upgraded AMD stock as a good buy since they beleive the shae following an AMD win will rise 8-12 bucks at least....That puts it at INtel level though Intel will likely take a few dollar hit if there is any large payout....
If amd wins you'll see intel having to compete more on an even playing field, but they also won't be giving the firesale prices out that they have been to certain companies.
So places like dell will prolly be paying the same for chips as anyone else so thier prices will go up a bit while the white box provider types and us who build our own systems will get cheaper parts than we do now.
So places like dell will prolly be paying the same for chips as anyone else so thier prices will go up a bit while the white box provider types and us who build our own systems will get cheaper parts than we do now.
And this means more business for the little guy
All around, these kind of big business bully tactics hurt everyone, so I would like to see Intel made an example of.
DrMrLordX
Lifer
- Apr 27, 2000
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This lawsuit won't affect anything except Intel's corporate environment. If/when Intel loses or settles out of court, heads will roll in the marketting department.
And I'm sure AMD has the funds to pursue this case. They appear to have been gathering evidence and building a case for years. They probably keep lawyers on retainer and chalk up the cost as a regular business expense. These days, lawyers' fees and political contributions are costs of doing business, nothing more.
And I'm sure AMD has the funds to pursue this case. They appear to have been gathering evidence and building a case for years. They probably keep lawyers on retainer and chalk up the cost as a regular business expense. These days, lawyers' fees and political contributions are costs of doing business, nothing more.
There's no reasonable amount AMD could get out of Intel that would actually make them go under; their pockets are incredibly deep. It would take decades of bad business by Intel for them to go bankrupt. However, the ideal situation is that Intel will no longer be able to force OEM's to 100% Intel products, so that AMD can slowly chisel away marketshare to a more ideal 50/50 or 60/40 area, similar to the GPU market, in which case neither can push the market around like Intel currently does.
By that, I mean that no GPU manufacturer can threaten to alienate a major OEM, like Dell; go look at their XPS system customization page: your options are an nVidia 6800 and an ATi x850XT. This would be the optimal situation: neither ATi nor nVidia wants to piss Dell off, because it could me tons of lost sales.
By that, I mean that no GPU manufacturer can threaten to alienate a major OEM, like Dell; go look at their XPS system customization page: your options are an nVidia 6800 and an ATi x850XT. This would be the optimal situation: neither ATi nor nVidia wants to piss Dell off, because it could me tons of lost sales.
If AMD gets a settlement for 50 billion it may hurt Intel.
Intel could lose 10 billion dollars and still not go under. Their quartely and yearly revenues are staggering.
It is asking if Microsoft would go under with a 10 billion dollar judgement. Nope. They probably have that much cash sitting around.
AMD has cleverly timed this suit because within 12 to 18 months FAB36 will be running at full capacity so if Intel settles out of court to stop the rebate program, Dell and Sonly can't use the excuse that AMD can't provide them with the chips. FAB36 and a planned FAB 37(38) will help ease the chip limitation perception or reality of AMD.
Intel could lose 10 billion dollars and still not go under. Their quartely and yearly revenues are staggering.
It is asking if Microsoft would go under with a 10 billion dollar judgement. Nope. They probably have that much cash sitting around.
AMD has cleverly timed this suit because within 12 to 18 months FAB36 will be running at full capacity so if Intel settles out of court to stop the rebate program, Dell and Sonly can't use the excuse that AMD can't provide them with the chips. FAB36 and a planned FAB 37(38) will help ease the chip limitation perception or reality of AMD.
I agree completely. This lawsuit if anything will help AMD regain the ground they should have by now.
I'd say there is a 0.01% chance Intel goes bankrupt. If they even came remotely close, they would be bought up by some other company. Intel going bankrupt would be a disaster for the PC/Semi industry.
Lots of people. There are plenty of Opteron, FX-51, FX-53, FX-55 users, not to mention early adopters of X2s' out there that bought their processors.
Add the Intel users and I'd say thousands, if not millions worldwide, overclockers or not.
Markfw
Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
- May 16, 2002
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Well, I am MANY other people were forced to do just that in years past. My 486-dx2-66 cost me $500 in ~91, and the early Pentiums were the same. You couldn;t get a processor for under $500 from Intel until AMD started to give some competition in the K6 processor, and that was just a start. The Athlon is when things really got interesting.
That sounds completely opposite. I like it.
In reality it has always been AMD who have been keeping Intel prices low. Guess tides do turn.
Maximilian
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2004
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Intel wont be hurt by it even if they do have to pay a few million/billion. But this would be quite a boost to AMD as theyre profits are significsntly lower than Intels and an extra billion or two would go a long way in AMD land.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
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Shoot My first non-apple PC was a Quantex mail order job from computershopper mag with a pentium 266MMX and it cost $400 extra just to upgrade from 200Mhz.. I don't know what the chip cost was by itself but I assume well over $600 and it was'nt even top of the line but middle stream at the time.
Yea this recent AMD compitition has been a good thing. Intel used to sell most it's chips between $500-$1500 for as long as I can remember.. granted I havnt used PC's as long as you have but AMD and athlon were a welcome event IMO.
What's interesting about anti-trust cases is that the penalties are MUCH more severe than normal suits...
1. Anti-trust specifies treble damages
2. There is a clause in the Civil Antitrust code that allows a "pre-emptive injunction". This means that even before a trial, the plaintiff can have a specific business practice stopped if it is jeopardizing their own business. It is quite conceivable that AMD could have Intel's rebate program shut down within the next 6 months while they are still awaiting trial...
IANAL, but from what I have read about the requirements for this, it is well within the realm of possibilities...
how far would a 2 Billion go with AMD?
What are thier current debts ?
New fab ?, some RnD, Tv's ad's, some debt gone.
More likely to be one billion, if that...to be honest I have no idea lol.
What are thier current debts ?
New fab ?, some RnD, Tv's ad's, some debt gone.
More likely to be one billion, if that...to be honest I have no idea lol.
I have a question about this - obviously intel was doing some poor business practice stuff (using their monolopilistic status to gain leverage over other companies), but what's this thing about designing "its compilers... to degrade a program?s performance if operated on a computer powered by an AMD microprocessor."?
To me, it seems that Intel can do whatever-the-hell it wants to with it's compilers - Intel created the x86 ISA, right? So where does it say, anywhere, that they need to design their compilers to run on a competitor's chip that runs x86 instructions?
It seems kinda bass-ackwards to me... AMD can make their own damn compilers if they want better x86 performance.
I'm a total AMD fanboy, and have been since the original Athlon... but the last point seems kind of moot.
The rest will probably hold ground, though.
To me, it seems that Intel can do whatever-the-hell it wants to with it's compilers - Intel created the x86 ISA, right? So where does it say, anywhere, that they need to design their compilers to run on a competitor's chip that runs x86 instructions?
It seems kinda bass-ackwards to me... AMD can make their own damn compilers if they want better x86 performance.
I'm a total AMD fanboy, and have been since the original Athlon... but the last point seems kind of moot.
The rest will probably hold ground, though.
To understand it, think about Microsoft causing problems with 3rd parties using their OS.
If Intel really do have monopoly status (and I don't doubt that for a second...), and their compilers are used in the majority of cases, then it's just another way to use the monopoly status as a barrier to market entry for AMD.
You'll note that AMD did not do the same with x86-64...they turned it over to an independant organization instead.
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