If AMD waits too long to drop prices, I will go with Intel

[Viditor]

Yes, K8L will be Socket AM2...it's due in dual core mode in H1 07 and quad core in Q1 08.
It requires no more pins for the desktop version, and the new Opteron Socket F was designed to accomocate the extra HT links so it will be compatable as well...

Fab 30 will remain in production at least through mid 07 (it takes a few years to build a Fab...) when the conversion to Fab36 and Chartered 65nm is complete, then it will be upgraded (rumour) to 45nm 300mm. The new 450mm (rumour so far) Fab will be 32nm...

Conroe ships to OEMs and retailers July 23, and availability in stores should be in late August or early September (Dell and the other OEMs get the first shipments).

 

[thestain]

Viditor and all,

K8L in socket AM2.. that would be a reason to stick with AM2.. could a quad core fit on AM2 as well?

I really like plans for Greyhound.. just wish AMD would get it out to us faster.

The Stain

 

[pkme2]

Well, I hoping that the AM2 and Conroe will definitely affect X2 prices. I've seen the new suggested prices for AM2 and I believe the X2 prices will fall. I want that X2 4800+, baby be good to me.

 

[imported_UncivilizedAMD]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: UncivilizedAMD
Even to the majority of people who keep their system stock, these new prices make sense to everybody. At the low end theres the 805 @ 93 bux with superior performance @ stock over all semprons within that price range. Midrange you have the 945 @ 163 which will go head to head with an AMD 3200+ @ 140 or even a 3500+ @ 195. Stock 3.4 dual core vs stock single core 2.0 and 2.2 is a nobrainer imo. Conroe E6300 is also expected at 183 also which is a way better choice than a 3500+ @195. Go higher and you have more Conroe vs am2 dual core and thats a nobrainer as well, superior performance at every price bracket matchup.

1. The 805 is ONLY better in multitasking apps...in single threaded it's worse than the Sempron. It certainly is a better choice for overclockers, but a worse choice for gamers (unless you only like to play SMP optimised games).
2. I've never heard of of the Intel 945...what is it?
3. We don't know how well the Conroes with the smaller cache will perform yet...

1) Agreed, I rarely play games so it wouldn't matter to me. But multithreaded applications are becoming more and more prevalent so the 805 is more futureproof as a processor compared to a sempron without future upgrades taken into account.

2) Intel pentium 945 is a 3.4 ghz dual core processor with no VT. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100813

3) True, but will 2mb doom the Conroe? Doesn't sound likely but yeh we don't know for sure yet. But being that it's a dual core makes it that much more appealing already unless you are a hardcore gamer and don't care about anything else than single vs dual wouldn't matter. And it's been shown to overclock to 2.9 on air so that's another plus.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: UncivilizedAMD

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: UncivilizedAMD
Even to the majority of people who keep their system stock, these new prices make sense to everybody. At the low end theres the 805 @ 93 bux with superior performance @ stock over all semprons within that price range. Midrange you have the 945 @ 163 which will go head to head with an AMD 3200+ @ 140 or even a 3500+ @ 195. Stock 3.4 dual core vs stock single core 2.0 and 2.2 is a nobrainer imo. Conroe E6300 is also expected at 183 also which is a way better choice than a 3500+ @195. Go higher and you have more Conroe vs am2 dual core and thats a nobrainer as well, superior performance at every price bracket matchup.

1. The 805 is ONLY better in multitasking apps...in single threaded it's worse than the Sempron. It certainly is a better choice for overclockers, but a worse choice for gamers (unless you only like to play SMP optimised games).
2. I've never heard of of the Intel 945...what is it?
3. We don't know how well the Conroes with the smaller cache will perform yet...

1) Agreed, I rarely play games so it wouldn't matter to me. But multithreaded applications are becoming more and more prevalent so the 805 is more futureproof as a processor compared to a sempron without future upgrades taken into account.

2) Intel pentium 945 is a 3.4 ghz dual core processor with no VT. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100813

3) True, but will 2mb doom the Conroe? Doesn't sound likely but yeh we don't know for sure yet. But being that it's a dual core makes it that much more appealing already unless you are a hardcore gamer and don't care about anything else than single vs dual wouldn't matter. And it's been shown to overclock to 2.9 on air so that's another plus.

1. While multi-threaded apps are indeed becoming more numerous, the vast majority are still single-threaded (well over 90%). It's not just games...

2. Interesting...it looks to be a new part that Intel will announce in late July along with the 925 and 915 (it's not part of their roadmap or inventory ATM). I wonder how it will perform and if it will be available in retail at all (it might be an OEM-only part...)?

3. I'm actually a professional Video Editor (=Viditor) and trainer/designer/consultant, but I do enjoy the occasional game...
I don't think that the 2MB cache will "doom" anything, but we also shouldn't assume that it will perform anywhere near as good as it's 4MB brother. It's just a matter of wait and see...

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: thestain
Viditor and all,

K8L in socket AM2.. that would be a reason to stick with AM2.. could a quad core fit on AM2 as well?

I really like plans for Greyhound.. just wish AMD would get it out to us faster.

The Stain

I honestly don't know about quad core for the desktop...at the moment, it's to be a server/workstation part only (which means socket F). However, I don't see any reason why it couldn't be AM2 as well...adding cores doesn't mean adding pins (e.g. dual core 939).
The K8L Opterons however do require more pins (1207 vs 940) for a few reasons...
1. there are 5 HT connections instead of 3, allowing for a 16P system and coprocessors
2. AMD will migrate servers to FBD as well next year

The dual core K8L desktop will almost certainly be AM2...and judging by AMD's success in backwards compatability of sockets, they should be just a drop-in replacement for current K8 AM2 chips.

 

[lopri]

I just stopped by here quick and saw this thread, and thought it's a bit.. off. OK, so you want to go with Intel.. which one? Do you have anything specific in mind? Or if you just pick up something cheap for the time being, will that platform be compatible with the thing you're waiting for in 2 months?

Answer those questions and you'll better understand the economy. AMD won't drop the prices until, like 1 week before the launch of Conroe, or at least until there is a mass-availability of Conroe-compatible motherboards. Simple as that.

 

[thestain]

Common sense says they will drop prices sooner rather than later. Common practice says they will wait til the bitter end of AMD performance dominance..

Per some surveys, more people and companies are delaying cpu purchases right now than they have in a couple years.. so there is a strong back log of demand in waiting..

AMD could steal a lot of business that will otherwise go to Intel by dropping prices now.

Yes.. the cpus for amd are not even at the on-line retailers yet.. so.. maybe good to wait.. but.. in all fairness to the resellers.. AMD should let them make some money too.

The Stain

 

[melloyellowaz]

I am actually looking to buy a new PC this summer and originally wanted to buy an X2 processor but when the new Intel estimated prices came out yesterday for the Core 2 duos, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy an AMD processor right now since the new Core 2 Duos will definitely beat out AMD's current processors. The only way I would buy an AMD processor (new AM2 included) this summer is if their prices will be significantly lowered which I doubt they could afford since they don't have as deep of pockets as Intel who has slashed their prices to ridiculous amounts. As for the new K8L's, well there's basically no performance tests on that yet so I'm going to go with what I trust is the best option at the time and for this summer and probably for the remainder of this year will be the Core 2 Duo. Just my two cents.

 

[lopri]

1. AMD is currently selling out their chips. They've been having supply problems for quite a long time.
2. Check out "Osborne Effect " @Wikipedia.com. By announcing a future product nearly 6 months ahead, who's taking the biggest damage? Yes, Intel. Sure, AMD users might be giving a second thought on their near-term purchase, but the Intel users might have put put off the purchase completely.
3. Of course Intel did this because they can afford it. (for now) Their #1 goal at this point is not selling their product, but stopping AMD from gaining more marketshare, at all cost.

So it's like this. Intel probably succeeded in stopping people from buying AMD chips, to some extent. But they also manged to stop people from buying Intel chips, near completely. Even with the drastic price cuts of P-D, I don't see everybody buyging P-Ds. The biggest victims in short term? Probably retailers and small-to-medium system builders. Intel's success will depend on how fast they can move their production line to the new architecture. (Since no one will want to buy Netburst once Conroe is out)

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: melloyellowaz
I am actually looking to buy a new PC this summer and originally wanted to buy an X2 processor but when the new Intel estimated prices came out yesterday for the Core 2 duos, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy an AMD processor right now since the new Core 2 Duos will definitely beat out AMD's current processors. The only way I would buy an AMD processor (new AM2 included) this summer is if their prices will be significantly lowered which I doubt they could afford since they don't have as deep of pockets as Intel who has slashed their prices to ridiculous amounts. As for the new K8L's, well there's basically no performance tests on that yet so I'm going to go with what I trust is the best option at the time and for this summer and probably for the remainder of this year will be the Core 2 Duo. Just my two cents.

Good common sense...K8L is meaningless at this point, except to know that you can probably upgrade to it in a year if your AM2. However, Conroe is (or should I say "will be") the bird in hand.

I have never understood people who wait to buy a computer for months because it will be 15-20% faster...computers are ALWAYS 15-20% faster in 6 months anyways!
I can understand waiting for new functions (64 bit, multicore, PCIe, etc...), but not speed.
There have been many people whose posts indicated back in January that they wanted to wait for Conroe because it would be faster...I just don't get it.

Buy a computer when you need a computer, and get the best one you can at the time. If you need a computer today it will be an AMD...in August/Sept, then it will most likely be the Conroe...if it's in H1 07, it will most likely be AMD again. Round and round we go...
JMHO

 

[Dthom]

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: melloyellowaz
I am actually looking to buy a new PC this summer and originally wanted to buy an X2 processor but when the new Intel estimated prices came out yesterday for the Core 2 duos, it just doesn't make sense for me to buy an AMD processor right now since the new Core 2 Duos will definitely beat out AMD's current processors. The only way I would buy an AMD processor (new AM2 included) this summer is if their prices will be significantly lowered which I doubt they could afford since they don't have as deep of pockets as Intel who has slashed their prices to ridiculous amounts. As for the new K8L's, well there's basically no performance tests on that yet so I'm going to go with what I trust is the best option at the time and for this summer and probably for the remainder of this year will be the Core 2 Duo. Just my two cents.

Good common sense...K8L is meaningless at this point, except to know that you can probably upgrade to it in a year if your AM2. However, Conroe is (or should I say "will be") the bird in hand.

I have never understood people who wait to buy a computer for months because it will be 15-20% faster...computers are ALWAYS 15-20% faster in 6 months anyways!
I can understand waiting for new functions (64 bit, multicore, PCIe, etc...), but not speed.
There have been many people whose posts indicated back in January that they wanted to wait for Conroe because it would be faster...I just don't get it.

Buy a computer when you need a computer, and get the best one you can at the time. If you need a computer today it will be an AMD...in August/Sept, then it will most likely be the Conroe...if it's in H1 07, it will most likely be AMD again. Round and round we go...
JMHO

I always find it interesting when people wait for a processor without even knowing it if really will be any faster than something else. The exact same processor will give very different results on 2 different motherboards, so how do you really know that the 10-15% shown in any particular benchmark is going to make any difference on your paticular hardware?

AMD is getting their pound of flesh while they can. Actually, they are very competively priced in the fast-desktop speed range (3.4P4 vs 2.0 Opteron). $180. for a 2.0 opteron is a very good buy. They know that intel has nothing to compete with dual-core 2.6 Opterons, so if you've just gotta have one, you'll have to pay the piper. Thats how it always is. You'll get more bang for your buck buying 2 2.0 Opteron systems and a bigger desk.

 

[bhess]

Well I'm well behind the 8-ball since I haven't built anything in over 2 years.

But I'm in the same boat. I've just started shopping and reading up getting ready to finally upgrade my P-4 2.53 and want a dual core of some type. Of course I've always went with AMD when practical but the prices on the X2 are just too high. If it were cheaper I would be buying stuff today. If they wait too long to drop prices then I too will wait for the conroe. Especially if the advertized prices are less then an X2.

my $.02

 

[Munky]

I'll repeat what was stated a few posts above: AMD is currently selling everything they can produce, and as long as that demand for their products continues, there's absolutely no reason for them to drop prices.

Intel, on the other hand, is lowering prices like crazy to move old inventory and hopefully catch a few last Netburst sales. But they still have an inferior product, and price/performance only matters when the actual performance is convincingly high enough for the educated buyer.

 

[Dadofamunky]

Originally posted by: jwalker46
If you look at the announced prices for Conroe, and the percentage performance gain, AMD would have to cut prices by 30-50% to be competitive (i.e. to offer the same performance per dollar).

Perhaps AMD simply and literally cannot afford such a large percent drop in revenue. My guess is, AMD's sales will collapse, but somewhere en route to bankruptcy it will be bought out by a Chinese company just for its distribution channel.

Good to see impartial judgements from the participants in this forum

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: Dadofamunky

Originally posted by: jwalker46
If you look at the announced prices for Conroe, and the percentage performance gain, AMD would have to cut prices by 30-50% to be competitive (i.e. to offer the same performance per dollar).

Perhaps AMD simply and literally cannot afford such a large percent drop in revenue. My guess is, AMD's sales will collapse, but somewhere en route to bankruptcy it will be bought out by a Chinese company just for its distribution channel.

Good to see impartial judgements from the participants in this forum

Those are the kind of posters that let me skim rather than read posts...it's like tuning out the white noise of static.

 

[mindless1]

Realize that both companies want, NEED to sell their products. If either is getting whipped in benchmarks and has to drop their prices to compete, they will. Only if trying to compare at some random spot-price might you see a significant difference, more important is the specific use of this new CPU you ponder.

 

[nycdude]

Originally posted by: munky
I'll repeat what was stated a few posts above: AMD is currently selling everything they can produce, and as long as that demand for their products continues, there's absolutely no reason for them to drop prices.

Intel, on the other hand, is lowering prices like crazy to move old inventory and hopefully catch a few last Netburst sales. But they still have an inferior product, and price/performance only matters when the actual performance is convincingly high enough for the educated buyer.

well said.

 

[Xentropy]

Originally posted by: lopri
2. Check out "Osborne Effect " @Wikipedia.com. By announcing a future product nearly 6 months ahead, who's taking the biggest damage? Yes, Intel. Sure, AMD users might be giving a second thought on their near-term purchase, but the Intel users might have put put off the purchase completely.

Uh, the very Wikipedia entry you recommended people read debunks the Osborne Effect as an urban legend.

 

[mindless1]

Originally posted by: nycdude

Originally posted by: munky
I'll repeat what was stated a few posts above: AMD is currently selling everything they can produce, and as long as that demand for their products continues, there's absolutely no reason for them to drop prices.

Intel, on the other hand, is lowering prices like crazy to move old inventory and hopefully catch a few last Netburst sales. But they still have an inferior product, and price/performance only matters when the actual performance is convincingly high enough for the educated buyer.

well said.

... except it ignores the very real potential for Intel to regain lost market share with their next round of chips. We are speculating already about the future, whether AMD will drop prices, so it would have to be an arbitrary line in the sand to think it excludes reactionary pricing. After all, that is what Intel was doing too, hence this thread exists.

 

[thestain]

first you will see the Single Core prices slashed.. this happened for the lower speed models last night, on June 7th.. this will set the stage for prices to be slashed on the rest of the line-up.. and AMD needed to do this and I applaud their move to drop prices.

 

[thestain]

I think AMD read your post my man!!

http://www.hkepc.com/bbs/itnews.php?tid=613657