OK. Here's the $64K question. The SP1 installation program says the 319mb I have left on my win2k partition isn't enough if I wish to save files for uninstallation. Is there anyway I can have those files stored somewhere else? Another partition maybe?
Yikes! This is sounding pretty marginal. If your W2K boot partition is that short on space it's only a matter of time before you'll have to do something about correcting the space limitation.
I know of no way to place the uninstall file set on another partition, but I've never researched the matter. Actually, I only bothered to save the uninstall file set on the first machine to which I applied SP1. And I got rid of the files not long thereafter. I guess that, under the circumstances, you're going to have to choose between installing SP1 without saving the uninstall file set and not installing SP1.
I just spent a good 45 minutes or an hour typing up a fairly thorough message and lost it due to my crappy ISP dropping out on me just as I hit the Reply button. (CompuServe used to be the class, now it's something else altogether.) On the off-chance that it may be of some small help, I'll try to repeat the effort later tonight or early tomorrow.
I'm really sorry that this is going so badly.
Regards,
Jim
I know of no way to place the uninstall file set on another partition, but I've never researched the matter. Actually, I only bothered to save the uninstall file set on the first machine to which I applied SP1. And I got rid of the files not long thereafter. I guess that, under the circumstances, you're going to have to choose between installing SP1 without saving the uninstall file set and not installing SP1.
I just spent a good 45 minutes or an hour typing up a fairly thorough message and lost it due to my crappy ISP dropping out on me just as I hit the Reply button. (CompuServe used to be the class, now it's something else altogether.) On the off-chance that it may be of some small help, I'll try to repeat the effort later tonight or early tomorrow.
I'm really sorry that this is going so badly.
Regards,
Jim
jaywallen, I just installed SP1 w/o saving the files and everything looks OK so far. Only time will tell
You're right, I really have to make more room. I formated w/ FAT16, so at the time, using fdisk, I was stuck with 2GB partitions in FAT16. I'm may try to use Partition Magic and make the partition larger - I have a vacant part next to this one I was just about to install BeOS on, but there is extra room. I also may have to convert to FAT32. I want to stay with 'a' FAT so that my win95b and 2k partitions can see each others files (Be also can see a FAT but requires a 'patch' to see NTFS and then 95b would be out in the cold).
I'm amazed at the space required by so few programs. I have installed 2k, office 97, winzip, napster, napigator, winamp, adobe acrobat reader, download accelerator and a couple of hardware monitoring small utility apps (tried and true) and all the sudden my 2GB part is gone! Are there any files under Documents and Settings that can be removed innocuously. I routinely remove my temp internet files. I do store all my user-created files on another part, separate from win2k.
I know what you mean about losing a long reply - IE cuts out on me and does the same thing - so I just highlight a copy to clipboard often. Or you can type it all in a word processor and cut-n-paste.
I really appreciate your patience.
You're right, I really have to make more room. I formated w/ FAT16, so at the time, using fdisk, I was stuck with 2GB partitions in FAT16. I'm may try to use Partition Magic and make the partition larger - I have a vacant part next to this one I was just about to install BeOS on, but there is extra room. I also may have to convert to FAT32. I want to stay with 'a' FAT so that my win95b and 2k partitions can see each others files (Be also can see a FAT but requires a 'patch' to see NTFS and then 95b would be out in the cold).
I'm amazed at the space required by so few programs. I have installed 2k, office 97, winzip, napster, napigator, winamp, adobe acrobat reader, download accelerator and a couple of hardware monitoring small utility apps (tried and true) and all the sudden my 2GB part is gone! Are there any files under Documents and Settings that can be removed innocuously. I routinely remove my temp internet files. I do store all my user-created files on another part, separate from win2k.
I know what you mean about losing a long reply - IE cuts out on me and does the same thing - so I just highlight a copy to clipboard often. Or you can type it all in a word processor and cut-n-paste.
I really appreciate your patience.
Hi, mariner.
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this.
As I intimated in my most recent message, I'm not quite sure what to suggest with respect to the application SP1 to your W2K installation. If you decided to go ahead with it, I hope things worked out well.
I wanted to at least get the information about those registry edits to you this morning.
First of all, I strongly recommend the use of regedt32.exe for actual editing of the W2K registry. I use regedit.exe frequently for doing "research", looking stuff up in the registry. As I said before, the only time I would use it for actual registry editing would be when there's a corrupted value or key in the registry which doesn't show up when viewing the registry with regedt32.exe. I've seen cases of this documented at reputable sites, but I've never seen it personally.
Just a bit of information about the use of regedt32.exe, in case it seems as strange to you as it did to me when I first saw it...
Creation of a new value: Highlight the key location in which you wish to place the value in the left pane of regedt32. In the Edit menu, choose Add Value. A small Add Value dialog box will appear. Enter the exact name of the value in the top field. Choose the data type from the drop-down list in the second field. The type of data you are adding will determine the format of the next dialog box you will see. You enter the actual value of the data in this box. It is important to pay attention to the radio button selectors at the bottom of some dialogs to be sure that you enter the data in the correct format, for instance -- bin / hex / decimal.
Editing a value: Locate the value you wish to edit in the right pane of regedt32, and double-click on it. You will get a dialog box which lets you edit the value. When doing this, take note of the radio button selectors (as mentioned above) to be sure that you are entering the data in the correct format. Unfortunately, many people who publish tweaks or hacks aren't very specific about the format of the data to be entered. (Oftentimes you can tell by examination and doing a little thinking. Obviously it doesn't matter much which format you're using if the value is zero or one.)
Now, about the two registry keys we've been discussing:
The "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer" key to which I referred is the site at which you can choose to add a vlue which is supposed to cause the Desktop and Taskbar to run in their own thread. Then each instance of Explorer that gets started gets its own thread, also. It is presumed that this makes a desktop crash unlikely to end an instance of Explorer, and vice versa. This may, or may not, improve the stability of your Desktop. If it does, then that should be a positive thing for all apps. Everyone I know who has used it has liked it. It also seems to make the Desktop more responsive on most systems. If you want to try this, go to the key and highlight it in the left pane. Use Edit | Add Value to add a REG_DWORD with the name "DesktopProcess" (no quotes) with a value of "1" (one). (Note: place this in the Explorer folder, NOT in one of its subfolders.)
The value of the AllowWindowReuse entry in the For "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main" key is supposed to be controlled by a setting in the Advanced tab of the Internet Explorer Tools | Internet Options dialog. There is a checkbox setting there called "Reuse windows for launching shortcuts". If you UNcheck the box and hit the Apply button, the value for AllowWindowReuse should change to "0" (zero). That setting should provide some isolation among Internet Explorer threads so that, when one crashes, the others don't come tumbling down. This is what I was trying to accomplish when I suggested the Ctrl-N keyboard shortcut for opening new IE windows, but it's less certain just what any of this accomplishes since the advent of IE 5.x, which evidently exerts more control over whether or not new threads are started based upon various facets of the system state / resources.
BTW, I was using the term "process" rather vaguely and imprecisely in that earlier message. I should have been using the term "thread". I'm sorry about any confusion that caused. Too many operating systems and too many sets of nomenclature clutter my tiny, old mind. I was an AIX guy until a year ago. Before that it was CP/M and some DOS, Apple DOS / ProDOS, and... Well, you get the idea. I've never been an IT guy, anyway. Just a medical physics guy who had to use computers.
A couple of notes about the stability of Internet Explorer, in particular.
There's no doubt that with all of the hoops that Microsoft has this browser jumping through, that there are a LOT of things that can impinge upon its stability. I would think that Windows File Protection would help prevent adverse changes in file complement from having a great deal of impact on this matter, but I know that the ODBC DLLs are NOT protected by WFP. I suppose it's possible that there are other exceptions to the protection, too, which may have some effect on IE. The registry is still pretty vulnerable, and it gets messed with mightily, particularly with multiple browser installations, multiple Java implementations, and stuff like RealPlayer.
There's also the matter of user behavior in browsers and the effect of said behavior on stability. I have seen identically configured systems behave very differently in this respect. A close friend of mine who seems to average about two browser crashes per minute uses her browser this way: When navigating to where she wants to be on a site, she NEVER lets a page load completely before she clicks on the next link. She also frequently closes browser windows when the pages they're loading are still in the process of loading. I've explained to her that she can a) be more patient and allow the loading / applets / whatever on each page to proceed to completion, or b) click on the Stop button on the toolbar to get the page loading process to halt (not always 100% effective when certain types of scripts are running) BEFORE closing the window or clicking on the next link. When she remembers to do work this way with the browser, it doesn't crash on her. As for me, I'm old and slow, so I don't have much trouble following my own advice on this matter. I have had iexplore.exe crashes, but no more than a handful in the 7 months I've been using W2K. If you're a lightning fast mouse clicker like this friend of mine, you might give the low and slow method a shot just to see if it improves matters.
Beyond this, I'm at a loss. It's pretty obvious that the experiences that people have with this particular issue are widely varied. And I don't think even Microsoft, much less anyone else, has a handle on it yet. There's every chance that some third party software has a lot to do with it, but I'm danged if I can see any absolute correlation. For instance, I absolutely hate RealPlayer. Everything about it. I've tried it on a few systems and found it to be incredibly invasive, destructive, and not a particularly good player, either. On top of that, it installs spyware! Sheesh! I won't use it on any of my systems, and I'm pretty sure it has whacked quite a few PCs. But it's nearly ubiquitous on line, well, at least at certain types of sites. And I know people who use it constantly and who say that it doesn't do anything adverse to their systems. Now I'm one of those guys who seems to almost never see the problems that get widely reported by other people. I've NEVER had a problem installing a Service Pack, a Service Release, a hotfix, a security patch. I know people who have had problems with ALL of those types of installations but who never had a single glitch with RealPlayer. Some people swear by Norton Systemworks, and other people only swear AT it. Bottom line: it's a strange world that we live in.
I hope it's going better for you today.
Regards,
Jim
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this.
As I intimated in my most recent message, I'm not quite sure what to suggest with respect to the application SP1 to your W2K installation. If you decided to go ahead with it, I hope things worked out well.
I wanted to at least get the information about those registry edits to you this morning.
First of all, I strongly recommend the use of regedt32.exe for actual editing of the W2K registry. I use regedit.exe frequently for doing "research", looking stuff up in the registry. As I said before, the only time I would use it for actual registry editing would be when there's a corrupted value or key in the registry which doesn't show up when viewing the registry with regedt32.exe. I've seen cases of this documented at reputable sites, but I've never seen it personally.
Just a bit of information about the use of regedt32.exe, in case it seems as strange to you as it did to me when I first saw it...
Creation of a new value: Highlight the key location in which you wish to place the value in the left pane of regedt32. In the Edit menu, choose Add Value. A small Add Value dialog box will appear. Enter the exact name of the value in the top field. Choose the data type from the drop-down list in the second field. The type of data you are adding will determine the format of the next dialog box you will see. You enter the actual value of the data in this box. It is important to pay attention to the radio button selectors at the bottom of some dialogs to be sure that you enter the data in the correct format, for instance -- bin / hex / decimal.
Editing a value: Locate the value you wish to edit in the right pane of regedt32, and double-click on it. You will get a dialog box which lets you edit the value. When doing this, take note of the radio button selectors (as mentioned above) to be sure that you are entering the data in the correct format. Unfortunately, many people who publish tweaks or hacks aren't very specific about the format of the data to be entered. (Oftentimes you can tell by examination and doing a little thinking. Obviously it doesn't matter much which format you're using if the value is zero or one.)
Now, about the two registry keys we've been discussing:
The "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer" key to which I referred is the site at which you can choose to add a vlue which is supposed to cause the Desktop and Taskbar to run in their own thread. Then each instance of Explorer that gets started gets its own thread, also. It is presumed that this makes a desktop crash unlikely to end an instance of Explorer, and vice versa. This may, or may not, improve the stability of your Desktop. If it does, then that should be a positive thing for all apps. Everyone I know who has used it has liked it. It also seems to make the Desktop more responsive on most systems. If you want to try this, go to the key and highlight it in the left pane. Use Edit | Add Value to add a REG_DWORD with the name "DesktopProcess" (no quotes) with a value of "1" (one). (Note: place this in the Explorer folder, NOT in one of its subfolders.)
The value of the AllowWindowReuse entry in the For "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main" key is supposed to be controlled by a setting in the Advanced tab of the Internet Explorer Tools | Internet Options dialog. There is a checkbox setting there called "Reuse windows for launching shortcuts". If you UNcheck the box and hit the Apply button, the value for AllowWindowReuse should change to "0" (zero). That setting should provide some isolation among Internet Explorer threads so that, when one crashes, the others don't come tumbling down. This is what I was trying to accomplish when I suggested the Ctrl-N keyboard shortcut for opening new IE windows, but it's less certain just what any of this accomplishes since the advent of IE 5.x, which evidently exerts more control over whether or not new threads are started based upon various facets of the system state / resources.
BTW, I was using the term "process" rather vaguely and imprecisely in that earlier message. I should have been using the term "thread". I'm sorry about any confusion that caused. Too many operating systems and too many sets of nomenclature clutter my tiny, old mind. I was an AIX guy until a year ago. Before that it was CP/M and some DOS, Apple DOS / ProDOS, and... Well, you get the idea. I've never been an IT guy, anyway. Just a medical physics guy who had to use computers.
A couple of notes about the stability of Internet Explorer, in particular.
There's no doubt that with all of the hoops that Microsoft has this browser jumping through, that there are a LOT of things that can impinge upon its stability. I would think that Windows File Protection would help prevent adverse changes in file complement from having a great deal of impact on this matter, but I know that the ODBC DLLs are NOT protected by WFP. I suppose it's possible that there are other exceptions to the protection, too, which may have some effect on IE. The registry is still pretty vulnerable, and it gets messed with mightily, particularly with multiple browser installations, multiple Java implementations, and stuff like RealPlayer.
There's also the matter of user behavior in browsers and the effect of said behavior on stability. I have seen identically configured systems behave very differently in this respect. A close friend of mine who seems to average about two browser crashes per minute uses her browser this way: When navigating to where she wants to be on a site, she NEVER lets a page load completely before she clicks on the next link. She also frequently closes browser windows when the pages they're loading are still in the process of loading. I've explained to her that she can a) be more patient and allow the loading / applets / whatever on each page to proceed to completion, or b) click on the Stop button on the toolbar to get the page loading process to halt (not always 100% effective when certain types of scripts are running) BEFORE closing the window or clicking on the next link. When she remembers to do work this way with the browser, it doesn't crash on her. As for me, I'm old and slow, so I don't have much trouble following my own advice on this matter. I have had iexplore.exe crashes, but no more than a handful in the 7 months I've been using W2K. If you're a lightning fast mouse clicker like this friend of mine, you might give the low and slow method a shot just to see if it improves matters.
Beyond this, I'm at a loss. It's pretty obvious that the experiences that people have with this particular issue are widely varied. And I don't think even Microsoft, much less anyone else, has a handle on it yet. There's every chance that some third party software has a lot to do with it, but I'm danged if I can see any absolute correlation. For instance, I absolutely hate RealPlayer. Everything about it. I've tried it on a few systems and found it to be incredibly invasive, destructive, and not a particularly good player, either. On top of that, it installs spyware! Sheesh! I won't use it on any of my systems, and I'm pretty sure it has whacked quite a few PCs. But it's nearly ubiquitous on line, well, at least at certain types of sites. And I know people who use it constantly and who say that it doesn't do anything adverse to their systems. Now I'm one of those guys who seems to almost never see the problems that get widely reported by other people. I've NEVER had a problem installing a Service Pack, a Service Release, a hotfix, a security patch. I know people who have had problems with ALL of those types of installations but who never had a single glitch with RealPlayer. Some people swear by Norton Systemworks, and other people only swear AT it. Bottom line: it's a strange world that we live in.
I hope it's going better for you today.
Regards,
Jim
Hi, again.
I posted my lengthy message and saw that you had posted while I was composing.
You are quite right about composing long messages online. I was just being lazy instead of doing my usual thing, which is to type the message into a text editor window, then copy and paste into the online reply form when I'm done.
I'm glad to hear about the successful (We hope!) SP1 installation. My but you're a brave person. What a combo: Win95, W2K and BeOS. You must be a major league tech junkie. My hat's off to you. I've opted for clean and simple in my old age. I dual boot, but BOTH partitions are W2K. (On my notebook, my most-used system, I use a 2 gig FAT16 OS-only partition for maintenance / emergency access purposes. The rest of the hard drive is NTFS.)
How's the browser behaving???
Keeping my fingers crossed,
Jim
Oops! Forgot to answer that question about the Documents and Settings folders. Nope! I wouldn't start deleting from in there, with the exception of defunct temporary files in the Temp directory under "Local Settings". I consider 2 gigs to be a MINIMAL partition size for a standard W2K Pro installation, and I wouldn't add anything to it but the most basic utilities. I wouldn't consider it to be an "operational" partition. I probably wouldn't bother with anything less than 8 gigs if I wanted to install Office and a couple of other apps.
I posted my lengthy message and saw that you had posted while I was composing.
You are quite right about composing long messages online. I was just being lazy instead of doing my usual thing, which is to type the message into a text editor window, then copy and paste into the online reply form when I'm done.
I'm glad to hear about the successful (We hope!) SP1 installation. My but you're a brave person. What a combo: Win95, W2K and BeOS. You must be a major league tech junkie. My hat's off to you. I've opted for clean and simple in my old age. I dual boot, but BOTH partitions are W2K. (On my notebook, my most-used system, I use a 2 gig FAT16 OS-only partition for maintenance / emergency access purposes. The rest of the hard drive is NTFS.)
How's the browser behaving???
Keeping my fingers crossed,
Jim
Oops! Forgot to answer that question about the Documents and Settings folders. Nope! I wouldn't start deleting from in there, with the exception of defunct temporary files in the Temp directory under "Local Settings". I consider 2 gigs to be a MINIMAL partition size for a standard W2K Pro installation, and I wouldn't add anything to it but the most basic utilities. I wouldn't consider it to be an "operational" partition. I probably wouldn't bother with anything less than 8 gigs if I wanted to install Office and a couple of other apps.
Well, the SP1 thing didn't solve the problem; shut down first thing this a.m. So, I have added the DesktopProcess key this morning; using regedt32. And, I changed the 'Reuse windows' option in Internet Tools as you discussed. Now to put IE thru it's paces!! I'll have to find some streamers - stock market's not open today
Other tidbits: I have only 1 browser installed at this time. I am a rapid-fire clicker (or was). I refuse to load RealPlayer for the very reasons you listed. I have experienced crashes when I was not even in the room - so maybe the auto-updating news pages or my continuously running streamers are part of the problem. Although 1 crash occured when i had open: Outlook Express, 1 fully loaded webpage and 1 loading webpage that never finished loading before the crash. Maybe OE was checking mail when the page was loading?
I'll let you know how it goes later.
Thx for the registry notes. I have never really mesed with the reg much, but I do need to learn more about it. I hope this biologist isn't in over his head
Other tidbits: I have only 1 browser installed at this time. I am a rapid-fire clicker (or was
). I refuse to load RealPlayer for the very reasons you listed. I have experienced crashes when I was not even in the room - so maybe the auto-updating news pages or my continuously running streamers are part of the problem. Although 1 crash occured when i had open: Outlook Express, 1 fully loaded webpage and 1 loading webpage that never finished loading before the crash. Maybe OE was checking mail when the page was loading?I'll let you know how it goes later.
Thx for the registry notes. I have never really mesed with the reg much, but I do need to learn more about it. I hope this biologist isn't in over his head
Hi,
Oh, shucks! I was hoping that SP1 would make everything happy.
Yes, I have considered that the streamers could be culprits in this, but, since you want to use them, the solution isn't going to be to blame them. I'm a pragmatic guy. I've never had to worry about streamers myself, because I don't do anything with the stock market. (I'd rather get body lice then kill them with an ice-pick than fiddle with that stuff! Sure, you'll be rich some day, but your browser will still be crashing! I'll be sitting in my shack surfing smoothly!)
Seriously, I just don't know. There are a lot of bad scripts out there, but you'd think that the sites that provide these services would get lots of complaints and get ther code straightened out pretty quickly. I'm guessing the problem is a registry issue (or possibly a file complement issue) on your system. But ferreting it out could be a lot harder than a re-install.
Actually a biologist should do better with these systems than most other people. Windows is such a complex system now that it's approaching the organization level of a life form. We poor dumb physicists are used to repeatable, reproducible, predictable stuff. Most of our models are good enough that we don't have much need for an experiment in most cases to predict an outcome accurately. The ball goes up, the ball comes down.
Here's hoping!
Regards,
Jim
Oh, shucks! I was hoping that SP1 would make everything happy.
Yes, I have considered that the streamers could be culprits in this, but, since you want to use them, the solution isn't going to be to blame them. I'm a pragmatic guy. I've never had to worry about streamers myself, because I don't do anything with the stock market. (I'd rather get body lice then kill them with an ice-pick than fiddle with that stuff!
Sure, you'll be rich some day, but your browser will still be crashing! I'll be sitting in my shack surfing smoothly!)Seriously, I just don't know. There are a lot of bad scripts out there, but you'd think that the sites that provide these services would get lots of complaints and get ther code straightened out pretty quickly. I'm guessing the problem is a registry issue (or possibly a file complement issue) on your system. But ferreting it out could be a lot harder than a re-install.
Actually a biologist should do better with these systems than most other people. Windows is such a complex system now that it's approaching the organization level of a life form. We poor dumb physicists are used to repeatable, reproducible, predictable stuff. Most of our models are good enough that we don't have much need for an experiment in most cases to predict an outcome accurately. The ball goes up, the ball comes down.
Here's hoping!
Regards,
Jim
LOL
<< Sure, you'll be rich some day, but your browser will still be crashing! I'll be sitting in my shack surfing smoothly! >>
If I'm rich it won't matter now will it?
Well, the reg 'hack' didn't work. Shut down with no streamers; but maybe loading 2 pages simultaneously. Two pages at one time shouldn't do that! I really don't think it is the streamers or any of the sites I visit; you're not having any trouble and you no doubt have loaded more than one page at a time. And, It has happened on a Dell-NT machine at work.
I'm not looking forward to a reinstall. I haven't finished this install which I started about a month ago. I was looking forward to imaging this completed install to another HDD, when I was finished, so I could have a ready back up just in case:frown:
What do you think of this: I have 2 hardware monitoring utilities running: CPUIdle Pro and Motherboard Monitor(MBM). CPUIdle disables the cpu's when they are not needed. It may have a problem with IE5.5 and the other apps that have shut down, but I never had any problems on my NT machine. MBM just monitors temps, fans and volts. This is looking more and more like a problem of this install. I'll try installing IE5.5 1 more time and see what happens. I guess I will need to reinstall the SP1 again after that:frown:
But first, I will disable CPUIdle and see what happens. I'm sure it will cause my temps to jump 10F if I maintain my overclock so that may go also:frown:
Do you have an address at M$ that I could send the DrWtsn dump to? I would think they would be interested in solving this problem. I think 1 or 2 others, earlier in the thread, indicated they had experienced a similar problem.
I don't plan to let this go. I'll post again later with an update. In any case, everyone reading this has picked up some very useful tips
<< Sure, you'll be rich some day, but your browser will still be crashing! I'll be sitting in my shack surfing smoothly! >>
If I'm rich it won't matter now will it?
Well, the reg 'hack' didn't work. Shut down with no streamers; but maybe loading 2 pages simultaneously. Two pages at one time shouldn't do that! I really don't think it is the streamers or any of the sites I visit; you're not having any trouble and you no doubt have loaded more than one page at a time. And, It has happened on a Dell-NT machine at work.
I'm not looking forward to a reinstall. I haven't finished this install which I started about a month ago. I was looking forward to imaging this completed install to another HDD, when I was finished, so I could have a ready back up just in case:frown:
What do you think of this: I have 2 hardware monitoring utilities running: CPUIdle Pro and Motherboard Monitor(MBM). CPUIdle disables the cpu's when they are not needed. It may have a problem with IE5.5 and the other apps that have shut down, but I never had any problems on my NT machine. MBM just monitors temps, fans and volts. This is looking more and more like a problem of this install. I'll try installing IE5.5 1 more time and see what happens. I guess I will need to reinstall the SP1 again after that:frown:
But first, I will disable CPUIdle and see what happens. I'm sure it will cause my temps to jump 10F if I maintain my overclock so that may go also:frown:
Do you have an address at M$ that I could send the DrWtsn dump to? I would think they would be interested in solving this problem. I think 1 or 2 others, earlier in the thread, indicated they had experienced a similar problem.
I don't plan to let this go. I'll post again later with an update. In any case, everyone reading this has picked up some very useful tips
Hi!
<< Well, the reg 'hack' didn't work. Shut down with no streamers; but maybe loading 2 pages simultaneously. Two pages at one time shouldn't do that! I really don't think it is the streamers or any of the sites I visit; you're not having any trouble and you no doubt have loaded more than one page at a time. And, It has happened on a Dell-NT machine at work. >>
No, absolutely this stuff shouldn't be happening. How often does the browser crash on the machine at work?
<< I'm not looking forward to a reinstall. I haven't finished this install which I started about a month ago. I was looking forward to imaging this completed install to another HDD, when I was finished, so I could have a ready back up just in case >>
Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. You want a trouble-free one to image. Even if you eliminate the apparent problems with this one, I'd say that you're better of waiting until you've done a build that hasn't exhibited any issues.
<< What do you think of this: I have 2 hardware monitoring utilities running: CPUIdle Pro and Motherboard Monitor(MBM). CPUIdle disables the cpu's when they are not needed. It may have a problem with IE5.5 and the other apps that have shut down, but I never had any problems on my NT machine. MBM just monitors temps, fans and volts. This is looking more and more like a problem of this install. I'll try installing IE5.5 1 more time and see what happens. I guess I will need to reinstall the SP1 again after that >>
I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. (It's been a while since I've looked at it.) Do you run either of these utilities on the NT machine at work?
<< Do you have an address at M$ that I could send the DrWtsn dump to? I would think they would be interested in solving this problem. I think 1 or 2 others, earlier in the thread, indicated they had experienced a similar problem. >>
There is an automated reporting tool for IE 5.5 that can be downloaded from Microsoft that reports IE 5.5 errors back to the company. There is also some way to send system state / memory dumps through use of the MSINFO32 applet. I've even used it before, but danged if I can find it at the moment. As I recall it's located somewhere where I never expected to find it.
Ooh! Just found it! In the Tools menu of MSINFO32 it's the Windows Report Tool. Automatically formats the system files and stuff. You get places to make your comments, tell it to send, and the report goes to Microsoft. But the little specialized IE 5.5 reporting does it all automatically. Just pops up when there's a problem and asks if you wish to let it send the report.
<< I don't plan to let this go. I'll post again later with an update. In any case, everyone reading this has picked up some very useful tips >>
I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful, but it's not exactly a new experience for me.
Regards,
Jim
<< Well, the reg 'hack' didn't work. Shut down with no streamers; but maybe loading 2 pages simultaneously. Two pages at one time shouldn't do that! I really don't think it is the streamers or any of the sites I visit; you're not having any trouble and you no doubt have loaded more than one page at a time. And, It has happened on a Dell-NT machine at work. >>
No, absolutely this stuff shouldn't be happening. How often does the browser crash on the machine at work?
<< I'm not looking forward to a reinstall. I haven't finished this install which I started about a month ago. I was looking forward to imaging this completed install to another HDD, when I was finished, so I could have a ready back up just in case >>
Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. You want a trouble-free one to image. Even if you eliminate the apparent problems with this one, I'd say that you're better of waiting until you've done a build that hasn't exhibited any issues.
<< What do you think of this: I have 2 hardware monitoring utilities running: CPUIdle Pro and Motherboard Monitor(MBM). CPUIdle disables the cpu's when they are not needed. It may have a problem with IE5.5 and the other apps that have shut down, but I never had any problems on my NT machine. MBM just monitors temps, fans and volts. This is looking more and more like a problem of this install. I'll try installing IE5.5 1 more time and see what happens. I guess I will need to reinstall the SP1 again after that >>
I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. (It's been a while since I've looked at it.) Do you run either of these utilities on the NT machine at work?
<< Do you have an address at M$ that I could send the DrWtsn dump to? I would think they would be interested in solving this problem. I think 1 or 2 others, earlier in the thread, indicated they had experienced a similar problem. >>
There is an automated reporting tool for IE 5.5 that can be downloaded from Microsoft that reports IE 5.5 errors back to the company. There is also some way to send system state / memory dumps through use of the MSINFO32 applet. I've even used it before, but danged if I can find it at the moment. As I recall it's located somewhere where I never expected to find it.
Ooh! Just found it! In the Tools menu of MSINFO32 it's the Windows Report Tool. Automatically formats the system files and stuff. You get places to make your comments, tell it to send, and the report goes to Microsoft. But the little specialized IE 5.5 reporting does it all automatically. Just pops up when there's a problem and asks if you wish to let it send the report.
<< I don't plan to let this go. I'll post again later with an update. In any case, everyone reading this has picked up some very useful tips >>
I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful, but it's not exactly a new experience for me.
Regards,
Jim
Hey Jim,
Update: Since my last post I have had as many as 20 IE windows open with www.marketwatch.com, which updates every few minutes - all of at once, along with OE. Plus I spent about 10 minutes refreshing, opening Ctrl-Ning and everything else I could to stress IE - and NO CRASH! And I have 20 IE windows open right now! What's up?
<< How often does the browser crash on the machine at work? >>
Couple of times a week; not very often compared to my home system. But then I don't use it the same. Few streamers and not as many open windows. I really change windows fast here at home. 25Kbps really tries my patience
<< Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. >>
Oh, don?t worry, I won?t. But before all this mess I was looking forward to it
<< I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. >>
CPUIdle Pro is for NT/2k. Supports multiple processors. I couldn?t leave it disabled for too long ? spiked my temps about 12-14F ? CPUIdle REALLY works wonders ? I couldn?t OC w/o it or something like it.
I?ll look around for one of those automatic reporting tools ? but I?m leery about anything that sends info on it?s own accord. I would like something that pops up a window and lets me add comments, though.
<< I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful >>
Oh contraire! We (you) have eliminated several potential problems. And I have picked up some good tips (and I bet some other members have also).
I really need to get outside now. Tractor needs 'exercising' I'll be back a little later.
Update: Since my last post I have had as many as 20 IE windows open with www.marketwatch.com, which updates every few minutes - all of at once, along with OE. Plus I spent about 10 minutes refreshing, opening Ctrl-Ning and everything else I could to stress IE - and NO CRASH! And I have 20 IE windows open right now! What's up?
<< How often does the browser crash on the machine at work? >>
Couple of times a week; not very often compared to my home system. But then I don't use it the same. Few streamers and not as many open windows. I really change windows fast here at home. 25Kbps really tries my patience
<< Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. >>
Oh, don?t worry, I won?t. But before all this mess I was looking forward to it
<< I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. >>
CPUIdle Pro is for NT/2k. Supports multiple processors. I couldn?t leave it disabled for too long ? spiked my temps about 12-14F ? CPUIdle REALLY works wonders ? I couldn?t OC w/o it or something like it.
I?ll look around for one of those automatic reporting tools ? but I?m leery about anything that sends info on it?s own accord. I would like something that pops up a window and lets me add comments, though.
<< I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful >>
Oh contraire! We (you) have eliminated several potential problems. And I have picked up some good tips (and I bet some other members have also
).I really need to get outside now. Tractor needs 'exercising'
I'll be back a little later.Update: Since my last post I have had as many as 20 IE windows open with www.marketwatch.com, which updates every few minutes - all of at once, along with OE. Plus I spent about 10 minutes refreshing, opening Ctrl-Ning and everything else I could to stress IE - and NO CRASH! And I have 20 IE windows open right now! What's up?
<< How often does the browser crash on the machine at work? >>
Couple of times a week; not very often compared to my home system. But then I don't use it the same. Few streamers and not as many open windows.
<< Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. >>
Oh, don?t worry, I won?t. But before all this mess I was looking forward to it
<< I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. >>
CPUIdle Pro is for NT/2k. Supports multiple processors. I couldn?t leave it disabled for too long ? spiked my temps about 12-14F ? CPUIdle REALLY works wonders ? I couldn?t OC w/o it or something like it.
I?ll look around for one of those automatic reporting tools ? but I?m leery about anything that sends info on it?s own accord. I would like something that pops up a window and lets me add comments, though.
<< I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful >>
Oh contraire! We (you) have eliminated several potential problems. And I have picked up some good tips (and I bet some other members have also)
I have to go 'exercise' my tractor for a bit, now I'll be back a little later.
<< How often does the browser crash on the machine at work? >>
Couple of times a week; not very often compared to my home system. But then I don't use it the same. Few streamers and not as many open windows.
<< Uh-uh. I don't think you want to image this one. >>
Oh, don?t worry, I won?t. But before all this mess I was looking forward to it
<< I wasn't aware the CPUIdle was even useful for anything on an NT or W2K system. >>
CPUIdle Pro is for NT/2k. Supports multiple processors. I couldn?t leave it disabled for too long ? spiked my temps about 12-14F ? CPUIdle REALLY works wonders ? I couldn?t OC w/o it or something like it.
I?ll look around for one of those automatic reporting tools ? but I?m leery about anything that sends info on it?s own accord. I would like something that pops up a window and lets me add comments, though.
<< I'm sorry I couldn't make myself useful >>
Oh contraire! We (you) have eliminated several potential problems. And I have picked up some good tips (and I bet some other members have also
)I have to go 'exercise' my tractor for a bit, now
I'll be back a little later.Well, I've been running 15-20 windows all day and no crash, yet. But something else bothers me. It has always happened and I was hoping the reg hack would solve it. Sometimes a page locks up when I tried to load it. I usually just go into Task mgr->Applications and end it. That has always closed ALL IE windows. I thought the hack would allow me to end just that window, but no luck. www.quotezart.com locked up and Task Mgr closed all 15-20 IE windows (but not OE or winamp). Is that a normal 'undocumented feature'? It's aggravating:disgust: So, since the reg hack causes all IE windows to occupy their own thread (?), is there a way I can kill a specific thread?
And, I apologize for all the confusing and misleading info I probably gave you. I know that I mistakenly said I was using IE5.01 at first (didn't catch that 'til this morn). Well, at least you figured that out. Hey, this has extremely interesting!! Thx!
You should start a reg hack thread, or page, or write a book!
Well, back to stressing IE
And, I apologize for all the confusing and misleading info I probably gave you. I know that I mistakenly said I was using IE5.01 at first (didn't catch that 'til this morn
). Well, at least you figured that out. Hey, this has extremely interesting!! Thx!You should start a reg hack thread, or page, or write a book!
Well, back to stressing IE
Hi, mariner!
I'm glad you're seeing fewer crashes.
I can tell you that, on occasion, I come across a Web page that causes an IE window to stop responding on my PC. Ordinarily in such a case, I can close that window by simply clicking on the "X" box, or by right-clicking its Taskbar icon and choosing Close from the context menu. When I have to use Task Manager to close an IE window that is "not responding", it usually closes without closing any of the other windows. However, the various types of scripts run in environments provided for this purpose on the client machine (your PC). When one of these downloaded programs (That's essentially what they are.) is written badly enough, it may very well cause failure in whatever environment is running it on the local machine. On a "healthy" machine, I think the Java environment is the one most likely to cause a lockup or crash. There are lots of people doing very ditzy stuff with Java. In such a case, this failure may cause all of the threads common to that environment (in other words, all of the IE windows) to close when the non-responsive window is closed. This behavior may be exacerbated by the fact that Microsoft has been attempting to improve the security of its operating systems by attempting to isolate the various client environments used by the browser, and thus to reduce any deleterious effects badly behaved applets or scripts might have on the rest of the OS. The OS may be "deciding" to kill the whole process if there's any doubt. Or it could just be that error trapping in this part of the system isn't robust enough. These are just my own musings and do not necessarily bear any resemblance to anyone else's reality.
I did go to the www.quotezart.com site to have a look. The html source on the index page contains a number of unpaired, mismatched and misused tags. This page also has Java, cgi and asp calls on it. However, I fiddled around on the site quite a bit and didn't get any messages about script errors, despite the fact that there's obviously some reasonably complicated stuff going on behind the scenes. This makes me suspect that there's something farkled on your system. (How's that for precise, technical analysis?) The problem could be in the registry or in the file complement or both. Wherever it is, I believe something has reduced your system's ability to run scripts and applets, and also its ability to deal with error conditions. And that's probably why you have had so many access violations and complete IE crashes. IE is normally the most robust of the browsers in common use.
At any rate, I have enjoyed trying to figure this out with you. I suspect that our efforts were doomed to a limited success at best by something that happened behind the scenes during the installation of something, perhaps one of the alternative browsers / Java implementations, on the system. Microsoft has made tremendous strides in providing for protection of the OS with W2K, but they haven't made it bullet-proof yet. As I think I said before, it's still pretty much open season on the registry. They are reported to be tightening controls even more for Whistler, and I imagine that, as they receive complaints from users, the various software vendors will eventually get their act together so that their apps don't stomp on the OS so badly. Well, we can hope, can't we? (Some of these guys, like AOL, will NEVER learn.)
And now, I'm gonna go to bed.
I hope to hear that things will at least continue at the recent level of apparent improvement.
Regards,
Jim
I'm glad you're seeing fewer crashes.
I can tell you that, on occasion, I come across a Web page that causes an IE window to stop responding on my PC. Ordinarily in such a case, I can close that window by simply clicking on the "X" box, or by right-clicking its Taskbar icon and choosing Close from the context menu. When I have to use Task Manager to close an IE window that is "not responding", it usually closes without closing any of the other windows. However, the various types of scripts run in environments provided for this purpose on the client machine (your PC). When one of these downloaded programs (That's essentially what they are.) is written badly enough, it may very well cause failure in whatever environment is running it on the local machine. On a "healthy" machine, I think the Java environment is the one most likely to cause a lockup or crash. There are lots of people doing very ditzy stuff with Java. In such a case, this failure may cause all of the threads common to that environment (in other words, all of the IE windows) to close when the non-responsive window is closed. This behavior may be exacerbated by the fact that Microsoft has been attempting to improve the security of its operating systems by attempting to isolate the various client environments used by the browser, and thus to reduce any deleterious effects badly behaved applets or scripts might have on the rest of the OS. The OS may be "deciding" to kill the whole process if there's any doubt. Or it could just be that error trapping in this part of the system isn't robust enough. These are just my own musings and do not necessarily bear any resemblance to anyone else's reality.
I did go to the www.quotezart.com site to have a look. The html source on the index page contains a number of unpaired, mismatched and misused tags. This page also has Java, cgi and asp calls on it. However, I fiddled around on the site quite a bit and didn't get any messages about script errors, despite the fact that there's obviously some reasonably complicated stuff going on behind the scenes. This makes me suspect that there's something farkled on your system. (How's that for precise, technical analysis?) The problem could be in the registry or in the file complement or both. Wherever it is, I believe something has reduced your system's ability to run scripts and applets, and also its ability to deal with error conditions. And that's probably why you have had so many access violations and complete IE crashes. IE is normally the most robust of the browsers in common use.
At any rate, I have enjoyed trying to figure this out with you. I suspect that our efforts were doomed to a limited success at best by something that happened behind the scenes during the installation of something, perhaps one of the alternative browsers / Java implementations, on the system. Microsoft has made tremendous strides in providing for protection of the OS with W2K, but they haven't made it bullet-proof yet. As I think I said before, it's still pretty much open season on the registry. They are reported to be tightening controls even more for Whistler, and I imagine that, as they receive complaints from users, the various software vendors will eventually get their act together so that their apps don't stomp on the OS so badly. Well, we can hope, can't we? (Some of these guys, like AOL, will NEVER learn.)
And now, I'm gonna go to bed.
I hope to hear that things will at least continue at the recent level of apparent improvement.
Regards,
Jim
Well Jim, looks like things are much improved. I guess the reg hack stuff did the trick. I havn't been able to crash it yet; not even 1 window! Tomorrow's stock streamers will be the real test! My daughter did crash it twice at hotmail. That page has always crashed it. Must be some 'busy code' there.
Hi, mariner!
Hotmail, huh? That's funny. My POP3 service from Hotmail has been out to lunch all day long, though I didn't see anything amiss when I went to get my mail with the browser.
I'm very glad that the browser is behaving better, but, as you have said, I suspect that the test will come tomorrow when you do your usual thing with the stock streamer thingies.
Keep a good thought!
Regards,
Jim
Hotmail, huh? That's funny. My POP3 service from Hotmail has been out to lunch all day long, though I didn't see anything amiss when I went to get my mail with the browser.
I'm very glad that the browser is behaving better, but, as you have said, I suspect that the test will come tomorrow when you do your usual thing with the stock streamer thingies.
Keep a good thought!
Regards,
Jim
Ya think, Tominator
I normally try to keep it at 5-10 windows but I was trying to stress IE after the reg hacks. Imagine, 20 windows open, and me going from one to the other refreshing for a bout 10 minutes:Q AND, nothing crashing:Q And then this one open window at Hotmail crashing the whole thing Life is fun
I normally try to keep it at 5-10 windows but I was trying to stress IE after the reg hacks. Imagine, 20 windows open, and me going from one to the other refreshing for a bout 10 minutes:Q AND, nothing crashing:Q And then this one open window at Hotmail crashing the whole thing
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