Idiot 9th Circuit Judges Owned Again

[Aegion]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Another one of those exigent circumstance cases. With warrant in hand to search and seize 'drugs' it should be easy for the Ninth to rule in favor of immediate entry. And, do so for a couple of reasons. Drug dealers usually have firearms so to knock at all is stupid. Forced entry may save lives (including the bad guys). As was pointed out, drugs get flushed quickly and there would go the evidence sought by the warrant.
I side with the USSC on this one and against the Ninth.. The Ninth's reasoning seems a bit misplaced and shallow, to me anyway.

On the other hand, they sometime cost lives, such as in the fatal shooting of Ismael Mena in which Denver Police raided
the wrong house. There is definately a very strong argument for using no knock entrys sparingly and carefully.

 

[chess9]

I'll bet the 9th Circuit has watched a few police shows where the cops knock on the door then immediately bust the door down. The kicker here is the Supremes gave the benefit of the doubt to the cop's testimony. My dad was a cop and I can tell you it took the police about 1.5 nanoseconds to break down that door from the time they knocked. What, you think they're gonna' take a smoke break after knocking? Sheezh.... This proves only one thing. The Supremes are being entirely disengenuous OR they are totally clueless. Your call.

Having said that, the 9th Circuit does nothing but give ammunition to all the right wing wackos. Some of those panels must be stoked with 60's hippies who have "one toke over the line."

-Robert

 

[PaperclipGod]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Smart drug dealers, he said, would keep their contraband near a commode or sink.

I don't know I'd have a 50/50 mixture of 18M Nitric/Sulfuric acid drum for an instant digestion of all evidence. You could be monitoring my sewer lines or intercept them.

Couldnt they analyze the acid for chemical irregularities as a result of what its "eaten"? I mean... a barrel of acid thats disolved a kilo of coke probably wouldnt test the same as one that hadnt... right? :/

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Zebo

Smart drug dealers, he said, would keep their contraband near a commode or sink.

I don't know I'd have a 50/50 mixture of 18M Nitric/Sulfuric acid drum for an instant digestion of all evidence. You could be monitoring my sewer lines or intercept them.

Couldnt they analyze the acid for chemical irregularities as a result of what its "eaten"? I mean... a barrel of acid thats disolved a kilo of coke probably wouldnt test the same as one that hadnt... right? :/

Sure they'll be a bunch of C's and N's and other elemental compounds in the matrix that the FBI could identify though spectroscopy minus whatever gases were produced but the idea of a digestion is to reduce organics to their elemental form and identification of the begining substrate is impossible because of isomers and millions of other molecular permutations possible.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Zebo

Smart drug dealers, he said, would keep their contraband near a commode or sink.

I don't know I'd have a 50/50 mixture of 18M Nitric/Sulfuric acid drum for an instant digestion of all evidence. You could be monitoring my sewer lines or intercept them.

Couldnt they analyze the acid for chemical irregularities as a result of what its "eaten"? I mean... a barrel of acid thats disolved a kilo of coke probably wouldnt test the same as one that hadnt... right? :/

Probably easier would be to break down the door and arrest the drug dealer before...oh wait a minute!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: PaperclipGod

Originally posted by: Zebo

Smart drug dealers, he said, would keep their contraband near a commode or sink.

I don't know I'd have a 50/50 mixture of 18M Nitric/Sulfuric acid drum for an instant digestion of all evidence. You could be monitoring my sewer lines or intercept them.

Couldnt they analyze the acid for chemical irregularities as a result of what its "eaten"? I mean... a barrel of acid thats disolved a kilo of coke probably wouldnt test the same as one that hadnt... right? :/

Probably easier would be to break down the door and arrest the drug dealer before...oh wait a minute!

Hehe I was thinking about that too. I would have a alarm system connected to a mechanical servo (in case they cut power) so if anyone busted in (as the police did) Drug Stash would automatically drop in the acid.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

Funny...I don't use or distribute drugs and the police haven't broke down my door and handcuffed me and beat me and drag me away to prison. I guess their "war on people" isn't going so well.

So drug users aren't people?
For every dealer they take off the street, someone else is going to come in and replace them. So all the government is doing is creating demand for new dealers.
So instead of a dealer on the street, now you have a dealer on the street and a dealer in jail. It's not a war the government can win.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

Funny...I don't use or distribute drugs and the police haven't broke down my door and handcuffed me and beat me and drag me away to prison. I guess their "war on people" isn't going so well.

So drug users aren't people?
For every dealer they take off the street, someone else is going to come in and replace them. So all the government is doing is creating demand for new dealers.
So instead of a dealer on the street, now you have a dealer on the street and a dealer in jail. It's not a war the government can win.

So what's the solution? Not lock up criminals?

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

Funny...I don't use or distribute drugs and the police haven't broke down my door and handcuffed me and beat me and drag me away to prison. I guess their "war on people" isn't going so well.

So drug users aren't people?
For every dealer they take off the street, someone else is going to come in and replace them. So all the government is doing is creating demand for new dealers.
So instead of a dealer on the street, now you have a dealer on the street and a dealer in jail. It's not a war the government can win.

So what's the solution? Not lock up criminals?

Decriminalize it, obviously.

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel
So what's the solution? Not lock up criminals?

Decriminalize it, obviously.

That makes no sense. We have a lot of car burglars in our area. Maybe we should decriminalize car break-ins? What's the logic to decriminalizing drugs?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

Funny...I don't use or distribute drugs and the police haven't broke down my door and handcuffed me and beat me and drag me away to prison. I guess their "war on people" isn't going so well.

So drug users aren't people?
For every dealer they take off the street, someone else is going to come in and replace them. So all the government is doing is creating demand for new dealers.
So instead of a dealer on the street, now you have a dealer on the street and a dealer in jail. It's not a war the government can win.

So what's the solution? Not lock up criminals?

Legalize it as has been for thousands of years. Even in this country drugs were legal till the 30's... What super says is right... It's a war you can't win ...too much profit. Worse thing is no one who currently is'nt using would start if they were legalized either, would you?, but they keep them illegal so it's only the low lifes pushing and influenceing those suseptable instead of parents and community like with alcohol which leads to more drug abuse and more drug accidents and more crime.

 

[Zebo]

That makes no sense. We have a lot of car burglars in our area. Maybe we should decriminalize car break-ins? What's the logic to decriminalizing drugs?

--------------------------------

One's a consentual behavior the others not and has a 3rd party victim. Very different.

 

[miguel]

Pot I can understand. But you can't seriously be advocating legalizing hard drugs are you?

What about Meth?

What about Cocaine?

What about Heroin?

What about Angel Dust?

 

[miguel]

Originally posted by: Zebo
One's a consentual behavior the others not and has a 3rd party victim. Very different.

Unfortunately, drugs will affect other people in the community. Children are the most innocent of victims. Like I said in an earlier post, marijuana, sure, I can discuss that. But you cannot seriously be advocating the legalization of crack or crystal meth and other hard drugs are you? ARE YOU? If you are, I can only conclude that you have not been exposed to people high on hard drugs.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: miguel
Pot I can understand. But you can't seriously be advocating legalizing hard drugs are you?

What about Meth?

What about Cocaine?

What about Heroin?

What about Angel Dust?

I can't think of a reason why not? Of course it will still be illegal to be at work/drive etc under these substances as with alcohol since the potential to victimize someone else is still there. But keeping them illegal makes me more interested in thier effects. I tried every drug in my 20's just cause they must be good if illegal. And the drug dealers get richer and tax payers poorer building prisons.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: miguel
So what's the solution? Not lock up criminals?

Decriminalize it, obviously.

That makes no sense. We have a lot of car burglars in our area. Maybe we should decriminalize car break-ins? What's the logic to decriminalizing drugs?

Unlike thief and theft victim, both dealer and customer are willing participants.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Zebo
One's a consentual behavior the others not and has a 3rd party victim. Very different.

Unfortunately, drugs will affect other people in the community. Children are the most innocent of victims. Like I said in an earlier post, marijuana, sure, I can discuss that. But you cannot seriously be advocating the legalization of crack or crystal meth and other hard drugs are you? ARE YOU? If you are, I can only conclude that you have not been exposed to people high on hard drugs.

Because children cannot provide informed consent, those selling drugs to kids should be punished, like those selling cigarettes and alcohol are. But that doesn't mean transactions between consenting adults should be criminalized. As far as high people, they should be held responsible for their actions whether high or not. If they do something illegal while under influence, they should be punished, if they don't they shouldn't. Again, this is nothing new, just look at alcohol.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: miguel

Originally posted by: Zebo
One's a consentual behavior the others not and has a 3rd party victim. Very different.

Unfortunately, drugs will affect other people in the community. They affect the community now, I fail to see how legalizing them would be any different? Would you start using tomorrow is lagalized? NO, you either have the personality or not and legality has never stopped anyone. Children are the most innocent of victims. True, but once again they are available in every HS in this country..unlike alcohol..sad to say it's easier for minors to get drugs..maybe we should regulate with drug stores. Like I said in an earlier post, marijuana, sure, I can discuss that. But you cannot seriously be advocating the legalization of crack or crystal meth and other hard drugs are you? ARE YOU? If you are, I can only conclude that you have not been exposed to people high on hard drugs. I tried every drug once, Peyote 3X pot 3x and Mushrooms about 5X cause I liked the effect. All was expermental..never an addict and never met an addict but once again the legality is'nt stopping thier addiction, you think someone willing to destroy thier body cares about laws?

Text

 

[Corn]

I tried every drug in my 20's just cause they must be good if illegal.

While that answers a great many questions I have had regarding some of the things you've posted, I must ask, did you commit murder? Because it is also illegal, therefore it must be good, right? So did you try it?

Personally, I didn't try every illegal drug, possibly because of my upbringing (but probably not), or most likely because of common sense. Hey I enjoyed, and still do occasionally worship with the goodness bestowed upon us by Jah as well as fermented fruit from the vine, but tried everything under the sun because it was illegal? Weak dude, really.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Aegion

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Another one of those exigent circumstance cases. With warrant in hand to search and seize 'drugs' it should be easy for the Ninth to rule in favor of immediate entry. And, do so for a couple of reasons. Drug dealers usually have firearms so to knock at all is stupid. Forced entry may save lives (including the bad guys). As was pointed out, drugs get flushed quickly and there would go the evidence sought by the warrant.
I side with the USSC on this one and against the Ninth.. The Ninth's reasoning seems a bit misplaced and shallow, to me anyway.

On the other hand, they sometime cost lives, such as in the fatal shooting of Ismael Mena in which Denver Police raided
the wrong house. There is definately a very strong argument for using no knock entrys sparingly and carefully.

Yes, I agree the situation MUST be of an exigent nature. The judge issuing the warrant has no say in the matter given that it is a police procedure matter regarding the means and timing of entry. The issue before the Ninth Circuit was the length of time the police should wait before making forced entry. I think the 4th Amendment deals with Issues other than the actual entry (my opinion) I do think, however, the 14th can be construed either by the 'equal' or 'due process' clauses to limit under certain circumstances the amount of force one can use to enforce a subpeona.. I believe the 4th ought to be construed to involve the nature of the evidence sought and the underlying justification.

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

The North Las Vegas police and federal officers found crack cocaine and three guns during the raid.

Sounds like a war on dumb people.

So what if they break down your fscking door? It only takes 3 seconds to flush a fscking toliet. They should bust in your house without even asking. I don't care if they break your damn door, we one of the most richest contries in the entire world. Deal with it.

 

[SuperTool]

Originally posted by: Tabb

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Bleh. I think it's time for the government to surrender in the war on drugs. Seems to me like a war on people.

The North Las Vegas police and federal officers found crack cocaine and three guns during the raid.

Sounds like a war on dumb people.

So what if they break down your fscking door? It only takes 3 seconds to flush a fscking toliet. They should bust in your house without even asking. I don't care if they break your damn door, we one of the most richest contries in the entire world. Deal with it.

Being dumb is not by itself a crime.

 

[LunarRay]

Lets see... Booze is legal and it affects folks.. But, is it addicting? Maybe! Cigarettes are addicting and it affects folks. Prescription Rx can be addicting and it surely affects folks..
All while young folks go about their lives...
Who is gonna consume illicit drugs.. probably the same folks who do now.. but, perhaps they won't have to steal as much to get the drugs given the price ought to be lower.. costs as much as a candy bar to make, I understand. It would reduce the jail population and perhaps increase the unemployed levels (For DM's sake I include this).

I think for the longest time the same drugs that are illegal were legal.. or non existent. I think it is a personal thing. If you drink and drive or do dope and drive you belong in jail... I don't think the % of that will ever change..

I think I would not oppose legalized use of drugs.. I would not support it but, I'd not oppose it..

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Corn

I tried every drug in my 20's just cause they must be good if illegal.

While that answers a great many questions I have had regarding some of the things you've posted, I must ask, did you commit murder? Because it is also illegal, therefore it must be good, right? So did you try it?

Personally, I didn't try every illegal drug, possibly because of my upbringing (but probably not), or most likely because of common sense. Hey I enjoyed, and still do occasionally worship with the goodness bestowed upon us by Jah as well as fermented fruit from the vine, but tried everything under the sun because it was illegal? Weak dude, really.

Well I'm glad you got that outta the way....can't come in without an insult can ya? My point was theres an allure to these substances (forbidden fruit so to speak) to youngsters which can't be denied by thier illegal nature and pervasivness in the pop-culture and sub-culture which attracts some no matter the law. Since it's a victimless and consentual crime , unlike your murder example, most even see it as harmless. I did'nt but wanted to expirment because that's my nature having a natural scientific curiousity. Like I3 making as a kid which will get you 20 to life today for terrorism or something.. Or potato guns and smoke bombs which are becoming illegal accross USA.

Speaking of upbringing... I don't know if that makes a difference.. perhaps the more you shut down some personalites the more they rebel. Just depends we've all seen it go either way even within the same family. 8 of us all very different..

Read the whole thread dude, really.

 

[Corn]

Read the whole thread dude, really.

Why don't you read LR's post directly above your's............for I could not have voiced my opinion any differently than his, as they are the same.

Obviously you must still be high, otherwise you wouldn't support unfettered immigration.