Ideas for a geezer computer

[Mauldigger]

Hello all, I would really like to build my own computer, sort of for the personal satisfaction that I did it myself plus have something I can upgrade.
My current system is a several years old Compaq 833Mhz P3 that I have added drives and memory to over the years but now it's not meeting my needs for running newer software. Plus I really don't like pre-made systems.
I'm in the over 40 crowd, don't do much gaming at all, I think Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the last game I played on my PC. I plan on burning DVD's/CD's, web surfing, using MS Office esp PowerPoint.

And I am totally bumfuddled after spending a couple of days in these forums. AMD? Intel?Socket 754? 939? the only overclocking I know is when I stay late at work.

I want a stable, fast, non-flashy system around 1,000US. Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[nick1985]

is a monitor needed? speakers? keyboard and mouse?

 

[suicidalpigeon]

are you reusing any old parts like monitor, mouse, keyboard, etc? or do you need a whole new system with all the peripherals?

edit: Do'h he beat me to it

 

[Mauldigger]

I 'm sorry I forgot to explain that I won't be needing mouse, kb, spkrs or monitor. I do need USB ports on the front for my jump drives and scanner, etc.

 

[nick1985]

No periphials, just computer...

PRICES REFLECT SHIPPING

Case - Antec Sonata w/380 watt true power $105

DVD burner - NEC $49

Floppy drive $12.50

Hard Drive - 160gig 8meg cache $85

RAM - gig of Mushkin value $80.83

Motherboard - Chaintech Nforce4 Ultra $95.50

CPU - Athlon64 3000 Venice Retail $148

Video Card - Gigabyte 6600 $115.50

Grand Total: $691.33


man, i have a hard time spending $1000 on a non gaming rig. but to be honest, this should be more than enough for you

 

[feelingshorter]

1000 dollars will get you a very nice system, is that with monitor included

 

[Mauldigger]

Thanks! WOW! I could use the extra for a LCD monitor and get rid of this hulk! Are the components from newegg?? OOps my bad I see now they are links ...........

 

[nick1985]

Originally posted by: Mauldigger
Thanks! WOW! I could use the extra for a LCD monitor and get rid of this hulk! Are the components from newegg??

yes, all of those components i linked are from newegg.

 

[MVasigh]

I agree that $1000 is quite the budget for a non-gaming rig. Heck, a $1000 PC would make a fine gaming machine.

Any specific LCD screen, size-wise, that you are interested in? Newegg has some great LCD deals.

 

[ryanv12]

Originally posted by: nick1985
No periphials, just computer...

PRICES REFLECT SHIPPING

Case - Antec Sonata w/380 watt true power $105

DVD burner - NEC $49

Floppy drive $12.50

Hard Drive - 160gig 8meg cache $85

RAM - gig of Mushkin value $80.83

Motherboard - Chaintech Nforce4 Ultra $95.50

CPU - Athlon64 3000 Venice Retail $148

Video Card - Gigabyte 6600 $115.50

Grand Total: $691.33


man, i have a hard time spending $1000 on a non gaming rig. but to be honest, this should be more than enough for you

that system looks pretty good. you might be able to skimp on the graphics and go with a 6200 if you don't see yourself playing any games, but that's a pretty good setup.

The other advantage with this setup is that if you wanted an upgrade that will give you a big performance boost in a year or two, you could probably drop an AMD X2 Dual Core processor for a good price. The new path for CPU's is to go parallel to get more performance since they haven't been able to ramp up the clock speeds much as of late.

 

[Mauldigger]

I have an old MAG 17" CRT I guess I'll be looking at a similar size LCD. I'll be ordering from newegg. Oh, do I need an additional DVD drive for burning/copying?

 

[suicidalpigeon]

well this is in case you dont want an lcd and have all the 1k spent on the system:

CHAINTECH VNF4/Ultra Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $92
Antec Life Style SONATA Piano Black 0.8mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 380W Power Supply - Retail $89
NEC Black IDE DVD Burner Model ND-3520A BK - OEM $49
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB 3.5" Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model VS1GBKIT400 - Retail $80
Microsoft Windows XP Professional With Service Pack 2 - OEM $146
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Processor - Retail $270
Leadtek PX6600GT TDH Video Card - Retail $164

$1,014.92 total
$1,045.22 with shipping (for me. i live in fl, doubt that has any effect, though)
obviously this is over your price range. so you can downgrade the motherboard and the harddrive if you wish. im assuming you need an os. if not. thats the only thing you need to remove. and yes i'm going overboard fufilling his every day needs.

 

[ryanv12]

Originally posted by: Mauldigger
I have an old MAG 17" CRT I guess I'll be looking at a similar size LCD. I be ordering from newegg. Oh, do I need an additional DVD drive ?

Only if you wanted to copy DVDs/CDs. If you would like to, by all means get one - they're cheap (like less than $20 for a decent one?). Also remember that LCD's will give you an extra inch of viewable space than your CRT. I would look around on this website for LCD reviews, because I think anandtech, in my opinion, does the best LCD reviews.

 

[Mauldigger]

Thanks for another option. That one looks good enough for ANYthing I would want to do!!
I can always get a new monitor later.....................

 

[vegetation]

You may want to consider wiping your drive and reinstalling a fresh version of windows. That may be all you need really. Over the years you probably got so much junk installed into your registry it's just bloated. You then can take that money and buy a really really good LCD along with half-decent video card for DVI output. Nothing better for an old geezer's eyes than to look at very sharp crisp text.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Mauldigger
Hello all, I would really like to build my own computer, sort of for the personal satisfaction that I did it myself plus have something I can upgrade.
My current system is a several years old Compaq 833Mhz P3 that I have added drives and memory to over the years but now it's not meeting my needs for running newer software. Plus I really don't like pre-made systems.

Pre-made systems aren't all bad. I've always been impressed with HP/Compaq, for instance. They have some really amazing deals, rivalling even homemade systems in price. If you end up buying something from a major vendor, I suggest going through www.hp.com. But I digress...

I'm in the over 40 crowd, don't do much gaming at all, I think Return to Castle Wolfenstein was the last game I played on my PC. I plan on burning DVD's/CD's, web surfing, using MS Office esp PowerPoint.

Yeah, I don't game, either. The vast majority of people on this silly message board play games all the time, though, and as a result you may find it difficult to get any kind of helpful advice for non-gaming, non-overclocking rig designs. So, be wary of what you read, here.

And I am totally bumfuddled after spending a couple of days in these forums. AMD? Intel?Socket 754? 939? the only overclocking I know is when I stay late at work. I want a stable, fast, non-flashy system around 1,000US. Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks

Intel has pretty much dropped the ball in recent years. At any given price point, AMD almost always offers better performance. The one exception to this trend is the new Pentium D lineup. Otherwise, it's pretty much always in the consumer's best interest to choose AMD.

As for socket 754 vs. 939, that debate is still raging. Personally, I think it's a bad idea to get 939, if you can avoid it. The platform is more expensive, and that means you'll either be getting a slower system or a lighter wallet.

Frankly, though, if you don't know much about this sort of thing, I recommend sticking with a major-brand vendor. If you're not knowledgeable enough, you can run into lots of problems with custom systems, and that can lead to headaches, frustrations, and additional expenses (which sometimes grow beyond what you thought possible). Check out www.hp.com and see what you come up with.

Good luck!

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Okay, here's a couple of ideas...

Compaq Presario SR1010Z series, customized
Windows XP Home SP2
Athlon 64 3400+ (2.4 GHz)
512 MB RAM
200 GB hard disk
dual layer DVD burner
integrated graphics
5.1 audio
GRAND TOTAL: $682.98 (with shipping)
http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopp...mpaq_presario&storeName=computer_store

Or, if you insist on building something, yourself, try this...


$42 CASE & POWER SUPPLY: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16811162019
Here we have a simple, basic mid-tower with 450W power supply and front USB/audio. It's pretty plain, and bigger than it has to be, but if you want something sleeker it costs a lot more--maybe $80 or $90 with power supply. Speaking of which, some folks might pressure you into getting a fancy PSU, like an Antec TruePower or something like that. Myself, I have seen absolutely no evidence even indicating, much less proving, that the power supply lends any stability to a system, provided its wattage is sufficient for the contents. If you want to "be on the safe side," so to speak, keep in mind that a name-brand PSU at 450W or greater (ideal for an Athlon 64) costs about $70 or so extra. That's quite a premium for PC snake-oil!

$53 MOTHERBOARD: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813185052
PC Chips is a pretty popular company, and manufactures a long line of budget motherboards perfect for consumers like yourself. Here we have a basic socket-754 solution complete with integrated graphics (64 MB shared VRAM), 5.1 audio and 10/100 LAN. A word on integrated graphics: They are a big no-no for gamers, but for ordinary systems like yours, they're great solutions for basic video on a budget. A standalone 64MB card costs about $30, and offers little or no performance improvement. For $50-$100, you *might* achieve slightly smoother DVD playback, but if you don't game or watch HDTV on your PC, 64MB integrated graphics should be quite nice. The only real drawback to this board is that it has only two PCI slots. For $5 more, though, you can get a similar ECS board with three.

$180 PROCESSOR: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16819103488
This deal is pretty tough to beat. The Athlon 64 3400+ was over $400 about a year ago, but today it's offers one of the best price-performance ratios in its class. I highly recommend it!

$14 HEATSINK/FAN: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835150027
It's a basic cooler, certified up to 4000+. Since you're not overclocking, anything else would be a waste of money.

$87 HARD DISK: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16822145072
I've heard good things about Hitachi, and this drive's numbers are definitely very nice. It's SATA, of course, and has an 8MB cache. Seek time is 8.5ms. I wonder if you'll actually need 160GB, but if you're burning DVDs (at 4-9 GB each), you'll appreciate the headroom.

$44 DVD BURNER: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16827152039
Everyone seems to love NEC drives; I sure love mine. This drive boasts the fastest DVD+/-R/W speeds available, and pretty close to the fastest CD-R/W speeds. Its DVD+R DL writing is a bit slow, and it doesn't burn DVD-R DL. Both of those formats are still in their infancy, though, and you don't want to be paying an extra $50 to support a format you may never use.

$10 MODEM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16825180004
Okay, I know that modems are quickly becoming obsolete, but they still have their uses. Whenever my high-speed internet goes out, I always keep an AOL free trial disc handy. However, if the internet isn't that important to you, and you have some kind of high-speed LAN connection, you can skip the modem--but I don't recommend it.

$84 MEMORY: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820145440
A gigabyte of memory is not necessary by any means, but I bet you'll enjoy the smooth multitasking it will provide. Corsair ValueSelect is certainly a reliable choice. However, if you want to shave off costs, start by going with 512 MB, instead.

$93 OPERATING SYSTEM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16837102151
It's Windows XP Home SP2 OEM--standard stuff. There's certainly no need to spend extra for "Professional Edition," which just has a bunch of features you'll probably never use.

Well, that's it. Let's review...

Windows XP Home SP2 OEM
Athlon 64 3400+ (2.4 GHz)
1 GB Corsair ValueSelect RAM
160 GB SATA hard disk
dual layer DVD burner
64 MB shared VRAM
5.1 audio
10/100 LAN
56K v.92 modem
front USB & audio ports
GRAND TOTAL: $606.18 (with shipping)

Those are my suggestions. I hope they help.

 

[svi]

I pretty much agree with nick1985's price list, so I'll just give general advice: get a new monitor. No matter what you use your computer for, you will ALWAYS notice a monitor upgrade, and sometimes it can be the best money you've ever spent on your system. Current systems are already overkill for what you want to do, so just get something that's overkill enough and get a shiny new monitor to match.

If you go with something else, there are three pieces of general advice that I'd like to give: get a decent PSU (ridiculous wattage is not necessary, quality is the important thing), quality case, and good long-life fans (Panaflo L1s are good quiet fans-- not SILENT, but quiet, and solid workhorses over the long term). There's no need to go all out on the PSU, but spending a little extra an a TTGI or Sparkle or any of a billion trusted brand names could save you trouble in the future (or present). A quality case will be easier to work in and contribute to overall system quiet, and long-life fans ensure that you'll have to touch the thing as little as possible.

Myself, I have seen absolutely no evidence even indicating, much less proving, that the power supply lends any stability to a system, provided its wattage is sufficient for the contents. If you want to "be on the safe side," so to speak, keep in mind that a name-brand PSU at 450W or greater (ideal for an Athlon 64) costs about $70 or so extra. That's quite a premium for PC snake-oil!

Perhaps this is because you're looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not that higher-end PSUs offer more stability, it's that they're less likely to be duds or underpowered (quality 350W PSUs are fine for nearly any system, very high-quality 300W PSUs are the same way) and offer longer lifetimes and less component failures on average.

If you need evidence indicating or proving this, there are ridiculous amounts of sound studies out there showing that there are definite advantages to higher-end components. Some of the better hardware sites have real PSU tests up (done with scopes and meters, not just cameras) that show generic PSUs doing very poorly under heavy load and failing in the long term. If you're lazy, find an EE. They like to share their opinions on these matters.

I can only hope you haven't given too many people this piece of advice.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: svi
Perhaps this is because you're looking at this from the wrong angle. It's not that higher-end PSUs offer more stability, it's that they're less likely to be duds or underpowered (quality 350W PSUs are fine for nearly any system, very high-quality 300W PSUs are the same way) and offer longer lifetimes and less component failures on average.

If you need evidence indicating or proving this, there are ridiculous amounts of sound studies out there showing that there are definite advantages to higher-end components. Some of the better hardware sites have real PSU tests up (done with scopes and meters, not just cameras) that show generic PSUs doing very poorly under heavy load and failing in the long term. If you're lazy, find an EE. They like to share their opinions on these matters.

I can only hope you haven't given too many people this piece of advice.

What you said is similar to what others say: there are studies--no specific examples, mind you, but just telling me that they exist. Well, where are they? I sure haven't seen any.

This is the closest I've seen to an explanation of how PSUs differ: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/power_supplies-28.html

As you can see, THG judges power supplies largely on wattage and noise. Nothing about stability or underpowering.

 

[svi]

What you said is similar to what others say: there are studies--no specific examples, mind you, but just telling me that they exist. Well, where are they? I sure haven't seen any.

This is the closest I've seen to an explanation of how PSUs differ: http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20040122/power_supplies-28.html

As you can see, THG judges power supplies largely on wattage and noise. Nothing about stability or underpowering.

First off, they judge on wattage DELIVERED, which (as you can see) is often different from wattage claimed. There are also no truly awful PSUs in that review, but truly awful PSUs are the type that typically come free with cheap cases. I see nothing in that review about rail stability / ripple, or long-term reliability, or the quality of the passive components inside the PSU. They took a single sample of each, saw how much it could put out, and called that a review. If you can't see what's wrong with that, you have a lot of electrical foundation work to do before you can make reasonable power supply recommendations.

I already gave you the best advice I can: ask an EE. If you want a review, this TR review is okay and does some reasonable measurements. Nothing on long-term reliability, but you can easily see the performance differences between the good PSUs and the generic one in the more stressful ripple tests.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: svi
I already gave you the best advice I can: ask an EE. If you want a review, this TR review is okay and does some reasonable measurements. Nothing on long-term reliability, but you can easily see the performance differences between the good PSUs and the generic one in the more stressful ripple tests.

Actually, that is an interesting review. But you'll find that it takes a dual Opteron setup under full load to push the generic PSU beyond +/-.20 volts--and even then the reviewer doesn't describe what if any effect it has on the system.

 

[svi]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

Originally posted by: svi
I already gave you the best advice I can: ask an EE. If you want a review, this TR review is okay and does some reasonable measurements. Nothing on long-term reliability, but you can easily see the performance differences between the good PSUs and the generic one in the more stressful ripple tests.

Actually, that is an interesting review. But you'll find that it takes a dual Opteron setup under full load to push the generic PSU beyond +/-.20 volts--and even then the reviewer doesn't describe what if any effect it has on the system.

But a single A64 will cause ripple amplitude of 150mV, which is pretty awful by itself. And that's with a single sample, in the short term.

The review does assume that the reader either knows what high ripple means or just reads an ugly graph as bad. High ripple will degrade part life time and may cause stability issues with sensitive components. What's more, any PSU with that much ripple is poorly regulated (since obviously that's not considered average regulation), and any PSU with poor regulation either has cut corners or design issues. If that seems like a leap of faith to you, look at it this way: a PSU should deliver adequate amounts of power, and the power that it delivers should be of adequate quality. All of the stuff inside a PSU is meant to do these things. If one of these goals is not met, what does that tell you about the PSU?

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: svi

But a single A64 will cause ripple amplitude of 150mV, which is pretty awful by itself. And that's with a single sample, in the short term.

The review does assume that the reader either knows what high ripple means or just reads an ugly graph as bad. High ripple will degrade part life time and may cause stability issues with sensitive components. What's more, any PSU with that much ripple is poorly regulated (since obviously that's not considered average regulation), and any PSU with poor regulation either has cut corners or design issues. If that seems like a leap of faith to you, look at it this way: a PSU should deliver adequate amounts of power, and the power that it delivers should be of adequate quality. All of the stuff inside a PSU is meant to do these things. If one of these goals is not met, what does that tell you about the PSU?

I admit, that does seem reasonable. Still, I'd like to hear more about the specific effects of excessive ripple on system performance/stability before I shell out an extra $50 for a name-brand PSU.

 

[svi]

I admit, that does seem reasonable. Still, I'd like to hear more about the specific effects of excessive ripple on system performance/stability.

It's difficult to accurately explain the effects of AC ripple on electronic components, especially since I'm really not qualified to do so (not an engineer, not even an engineering student). In this context, it's enough to know is that high amounts of ripple can have an adverse effect on part lifetime, and (perhaps more importantly) that many parts may not function properly with such dirty power.

The problem here is determining what "high ripple" means. It's obvious that that generic PSU's doing worse than the others, but does it matter? In a word, yes. That amount of ripple is badly out of spec for ATX12V power supplies (120mVpp maximum). There is wiggle room in that specification, yes, but not so much that I would want a PSU delivering power that was consistently out of spec.

If your power supply seems to be working well enough for you, it's your decision what to do with it. I'm not telling you to upgrade, not by a long shot. I just object to providing specific advice to others based solely on your experience, especially when there are solid reasons to go against that advice.

 

[Mauldigger]

Will I need to get cables? I think I may need something more than IDE cables, right?

And what about thermal heat compound for the CPU?