Why is this guy even communicating with the Taliban? I thought it was U.S. policy not to negotiate with terrorists.
<< Here is my suggestion for getting this thing started. Send Jesse over there. Have him loaded with explosives. Have him suicide bomb the top taliban officals.
Man, we could kill two birds with one stone...
>>
Well I don't think the explosives is really necessary, a GPS device would do the trick though.
Classy--you pose good points, but while Jesse Jackson may have been one of MLKs big supporters, he was still really just a face in the crowd. MLK was the one who took the lead or got up in that pulpit, even when he didn't want to. What about the other people who were involved with all the sit-ins, marches and demonstrations? What about the other people bitten by dogs, shot by water cannons, gunned down by cops? What has Jesse Jackson got on them other than friends in high places? I didn't say he had NO courage, but compared to the names you listed, he has very little. He stands on the shoulders of those people.
I also did not state that he has never done any good--you mention some of the great things that he has accomplished, and rightly so. Jackson's diplomatic skills do happen to be very good. I dunno what his secret to successful negotiation is, but I wish I did.
Furthermore, I am glad that he didn't volunteer to do this, he was invited. But often-times, he invites himself. He's very fast to "volunteer" himself whenever he sees what he perceives to be a social iniquity, and his volunteerism doesn't usually include just going out and doing it. It involves him appearing on Larry King Live and giving press conferences and having his name up in lights.
When you see a headline that refers to Jesse Jackson, the actionable part of the headline is Jesse Jackson, not what he is doing. You will likely stake the claim that an inherently racist and white-operated press paints him in a negative light simply because he his black and stirs up the mud, and I would respond that there is a good deal of truth to that assessment, but it isn't the only truth. Jesse Jackson frequently turns a non-racial issue into a racial one. Sometimes his very presence causes that--another product of racial inequality. But other times, it won't be a racial issue, it just happens that a white person pissed off a black person, and he shows up and starts dropping racism cards.
The fact that he was invited shows that for whatever reason, whether he goes or not, we know he didn't just do it to get another headline, and that is a good thing.
I don't recall anyone mentioning Louis Farrakhan, let alone referring to him as a "black leader," however, I would point out that despite his racist rhetoric, he was able to organize one of the largest marches on Washington since the one everyone remembers MLK for. The goal of his march was also a decent one, and he pulled it off, even if it wasn't a million men that showed up. I would call that leadership.
Leadership is about your actions, not your big name and contacts in high places. There are many, many black leaders who do far more to further civil rights than Jesse Jackson and get far less recognition for it. As a fellow New Jerseyan, Classy, you've probably heard of Reverend DeForest B. Soaries, who is our Secretary of State. There is a guy who rarely gets his name up in lights, but has tried to move mountains in combating racial profiling by police, for instance, and he's had a good deal of success. Before he was Sec. of State, he was a motivational speaker along with being a minister. He travelled the country speaking to both Chistian and secular audiences about both religion and racism. I'd say he's a better man than Jackson, but who outside of Jersey has even heard his name? I saw Buster Soaries speak a few times years ago, and I was upset that I'd probably never see him making a big change. When Whitman suddenly started dropping his name, I realized that this was Buster's big chance to make some changes, and he definitely took that ball and started running with it!
Finally, you keep bringing up the race card. I can't speak for others, but I don't dislike Jesse Jackson because he's black. Nor Al Sharpton. I dislike Jesse Jackson because, unlike MLK, he is a self-proclaimed civil rights leader, as opposed to someone who just became the right man to do the job. MLK saw problems and decided to fight. Jesse Jackson invents problems, or twists problems around so that he can become involved. Al Sharpton is all those things, and a liar, to boot. He lobbies for change by picketing the Atlantic City Expressway or a bombing range on Vieques, instead of lobbying statehouses.
This isn't about black or white. At least in my case. If you think I don't like Jesse Jackson just because he's a black muckraker, then you're more racist than I. I also don't think it's fair to bring up notable white despicables--Jesse Jackson isn't evil. He's just annoying. I don't fault him for his illegitimate child, although other people do--he's still only human.
Sorry for long reply--I owe anyone who actually bothered to read this far.
I also did not state that he has never done any good--you mention some of the great things that he has accomplished, and rightly so. Jackson's diplomatic skills do happen to be very good. I dunno what his secret to successful negotiation is, but I wish I did.
Furthermore, I am glad that he didn't volunteer to do this, he was invited. But often-times, he invites himself. He's very fast to "volunteer" himself whenever he sees what he perceives to be a social iniquity, and his volunteerism doesn't usually include just going out and doing it. It involves him appearing on Larry King Live and giving press conferences and having his name up in lights.
When you see a headline that refers to Jesse Jackson, the actionable part of the headline is Jesse Jackson, not what he is doing. You will likely stake the claim that an inherently racist and white-operated press paints him in a negative light simply because he his black and stirs up the mud, and I would respond that there is a good deal of truth to that assessment, but it isn't the only truth. Jesse Jackson frequently turns a non-racial issue into a racial one. Sometimes his very presence causes that--another product of racial inequality. But other times, it won't be a racial issue, it just happens that a white person pissed off a black person, and he shows up and starts dropping racism cards.
The fact that he was invited shows that for whatever reason, whether he goes or not, we know he didn't just do it to get another headline, and that is a good thing.
I don't recall anyone mentioning Louis Farrakhan, let alone referring to him as a "black leader," however, I would point out that despite his racist rhetoric, he was able to organize one of the largest marches on Washington since the one everyone remembers MLK for. The goal of his march was also a decent one, and he pulled it off, even if it wasn't a million men that showed up. I would call that leadership.
Leadership is about your actions, not your big name and contacts in high places. There are many, many black leaders who do far more to further civil rights than Jesse Jackson and get far less recognition for it. As a fellow New Jerseyan, Classy, you've probably heard of Reverend DeForest B. Soaries, who is our Secretary of State. There is a guy who rarely gets his name up in lights, but has tried to move mountains in combating racial profiling by police, for instance, and he's had a good deal of success. Before he was Sec. of State, he was a motivational speaker along with being a minister. He travelled the country speaking to both Chistian and secular audiences about both religion and racism. I'd say he's a better man than Jackson, but who outside of Jersey has even heard his name? I saw Buster Soaries speak a few times years ago, and I was upset that I'd probably never see him making a big change. When Whitman suddenly started dropping his name, I realized that this was Buster's big chance to make some changes, and he definitely took that ball and started running with it!
Finally, you keep bringing up the race card. I can't speak for others, but I don't dislike Jesse Jackson because he's black. Nor Al Sharpton. I dislike Jesse Jackson because, unlike MLK, he is a self-proclaimed civil rights leader, as opposed to someone who just became the right man to do the job. MLK saw problems and decided to fight. Jesse Jackson invents problems, or twists problems around so that he can become involved. Al Sharpton is all those things, and a liar, to boot. He lobbies for change by picketing the Atlantic City Expressway or a bombing range on Vieques, instead of lobbying statehouses.
This isn't about black or white. At least in my case. If you think I don't like Jesse Jackson just because he's a black muckraker, then you're more racist than I. I also don't think it's fair to bring up notable white despicables--Jesse Jackson isn't evil. He's just annoying. I don't fault him for his illegitimate child, although other people do--he's still only human.
Sorry for long reply--I owe anyone who actually bothered to read this far.
Jzero I read your post. I think you need to do a history check of Jesse Jackson's beginnings and connection with MLK if you think he was just another face in the crowd. You truly have no clue about what your saying. 2nd you are fairly newcomer here. It is a fashionable thing to apparently point out negatives of Jesse Jackson, Cochran, and or popular black figures. And yes they talk about race and rightly so. The price paid was great. Too many went to their graves early for civil rights for those rights to be glossed over and the people who should enjoy those rights be treated differently. And don't tell me it doesn't happen. You are from NJ so I know you are quite familar with the racial profiling disgrace in this state. Well here there are quite a few who have defended that kind of behavior as well as other questionable behavior. In the criticism launched is never any prasie. But I see and read very little about their white counter parts. Remember the OJ case? JC was called a racist. What happened to Barry Scheck Oj's white lawyer? Didn't see him garner any name calling or labeling? As a matter of fact it was Sheck who literally destroyed all the prosecution evidence. Not JC? The threads here on race are a joke most of the time. Cause its all one sided. By the way Welcome. 
Classy--Thanks for the welcome. I extend the same to you, considering we both joined October 1999. I might not have as many posts, but I've definitely been here as long. Regardless, even if this was my 3rd post, that would make what I say no less valid.
Unfortunately, you seemed to have glossed over a majority of my response. I never mentioned Johnnie Cochran. You keep dropping names and I have no idea why. I guess someone else said something about Cochran, but that wasn't me. I don't see how it's fasionable to bash black leaders. However, staking that claim is tantamount to saying I bash them just because they're black--I have already explicitly stated otherwise, and I'm not going to restate it since you can just scroll back up a few if you're interested in rereading. I also didn't say it's wrong to speak about race. I implied that it's wrong to invent race issues where they don't exist.
Your response is 100% valid except for the fact that it wasn't a response to my post about Jesse Jackson. You point out the obvious that despite nearly 40 years of open civil rights activism and over 200 years of the same but more underground, there still remains much ground to be gained. That doesn't have much to do with criticism of Jesse Jackson except for the fact that I would say he as done little to advance the cause of civil rights.
I also mentioned racial profiling in pointing out a certain black secretary of state, and the titanic effort that he has put into ending the practice. This thread isn't about people who defend racism, it's about Jesse Jackson, and it's NOT one-sided. Some people are arguing in his favor, some don't like him. Hey, and how do you know about racial profiling, but not about Al Sharpton? He was one of the lead vocalists in the initial outcry against racial profiling when those guys were shot on the turnpike. Of course, he's too busy fighting over Vieques to worry about racial profiling anymore. He stopped getting headlines, so he stopped bothering.
As for the lack of praise--if you are trying to criticize someone or something, you purposely omit praise. However, you mentioned all the great things Jackson has accomplished, and I and a few others have agree that you are absolutely correct. I also volunteered that Jackson did NOT volunteer to go into Afghanistan to negotiate, so this is NOT of the times that he is acting in his own self-interests.
And regarding Jesse Jackson's white counterpart......who exactly might that be? If he acts the same way Jackson does, though, I'll be just as quick in berating him.
Finally, arguments here on race seem one-sided because I would suspect a majority of ATers are white. The so-called "Digital Divide" gives further creedence to why it should be that way. It's hard to have a two-sided debate without representation from both sides.
But in the end, I do recall that it was you who turned this into a racial discussion. A few people took a crack at Jesse Jackson, for a variety of reasons. I don't recall any of them being related to the color of his skin.
That said, thanks for your thoughts, because you did cause me to look up a few things I didn't know, and thanks for being able to engage in a debate without firing off any personal potshots! You are truly an asset to this forum. (And a belated welcome to you)
Unfortunately, you seemed to have glossed over a majority of my response. I never mentioned Johnnie Cochran. You keep dropping names and I have no idea why. I guess someone else said something about Cochran, but that wasn't me. I don't see how it's fasionable to bash black leaders. However, staking that claim is tantamount to saying I bash them just because they're black--I have already explicitly stated otherwise, and I'm not going to restate it since you can just scroll back up a few if you're interested in rereading. I also didn't say it's wrong to speak about race. I implied that it's wrong to invent race issues where they don't exist.
Your response is 100% valid except for the fact that it wasn't a response to my post about Jesse Jackson. You point out the obvious that despite nearly 40 years of open civil rights activism and over 200 years of the same but more underground, there still remains much ground to be gained. That doesn't have much to do with criticism of Jesse Jackson except for the fact that I would say he as done little to advance the cause of civil rights.
I also mentioned racial profiling in pointing out a certain black secretary of state, and the titanic effort that he has put into ending the practice. This thread isn't about people who defend racism, it's about Jesse Jackson, and it's NOT one-sided. Some people are arguing in his favor, some don't like him. Hey, and how do you know about racial profiling, but not about Al Sharpton? He was one of the lead vocalists in the initial outcry against racial profiling when those guys were shot on the turnpike. Of course, he's too busy fighting over Vieques to worry about racial profiling anymore. He stopped getting headlines, so he stopped bothering.
As for the lack of praise--if you are trying to criticize someone or something, you purposely omit praise. However, you mentioned all the great things Jackson has accomplished, and I and a few others have agree that you are absolutely correct. I also volunteered that Jackson did NOT volunteer to go into Afghanistan to negotiate, so this is NOT of the times that he is acting in his own self-interests.
And regarding Jesse Jackson's white counterpart......who exactly might that be? If he acts the same way Jackson does, though, I'll be just as quick in berating him.
Finally, arguments here on race seem one-sided because I would suspect a majority of ATers are white. The so-called "Digital Divide" gives further creedence to why it should be that way. It's hard to have a two-sided debate without representation from both sides.
But in the end, I do recall that it was you who turned this into a racial discussion. A few people took a crack at Jesse Jackson, for a variety of reasons. I don't recall any of them being related to the color of his skin.
That said, thanks for your thoughts, because you did cause me to look up a few things I didn't know, and thanks for being able to engage in a debate without firing off any personal potshots! You are truly an asset to this forum. (And a belated welcome to you)
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