Idea for fixing retaining wall

[Anglachel]

Could a person just put a bunch of dirt up against a bowing retaining wall to shore it up?

 

[Greenman]

Depends on what the wall is holding. For most "garden" retaining walls the answer is yes, but it won't work for you. The reason for that is in your question, you can't just "pile" the dirt up. It needs to be placed in lifts and compacted. At that point, why leave the wall? Rip it out and rebuild the slop.

 

[Anglachel]

Depends on what the wall is holding. For most "garden" retaining walls the answer is yes, but it won't work for you. The reason for that is in your question, you can't just "pile" the dirt up. It needs to be placed in lifts and compacted. At that point, why leave the wall? Rip it out and rebuild the slop.

What do you mean by placed in lifts? I’m not familiar with that term.

 

[Greenman]

It means layers. Put down six inches, run a compactor over it, repeat (no rinse required).

 

[Anglachel]

It means layers. Put down six inches, run a compactor over it, repeat (no rinse required).

My “retaining wall” is actually my basement wall. It’s an unfinished basement with a mud floor. It’s slightly bowed inward due to a previous owner parking a big rig in the driveway.
It’s more economically feasible for me to get a few tons of dirt and reinforce it that way instead of thousands to tens of thousands for foundation repair.

 

[Greenman]

You posted the same question over at the contractors forum. I assume you were flamed and driven away with pitchforks.
You can fill in the basement. Compaction will be an issue, your only option will be to wet the soil as you place it. I can't tell you if it will solve the problem or not, you might just be trading one issue for another. Filling it with concrete would give you a better chance of success, though that will cost a few bucks as well.

Apparently hollow block retaining walls are common in some parts of the country. Why anyone thinks they're a long term solution is beyond me. I don't understand why they don't collapse when they're being backfilled.

 

[herm0016]

My “retaining wall” is actually my basement wall. It’s an unfinished basement with a mud floor. It’s slightly bowed inward due to a previous owner parking a big rig in the driveway.
It’s more economically feasible for me to get a few tons of dirt and reinforce it that way instead of thousands to tens of thousands for foundation repair.

Yes that may be cheaper, but it won't do anything. You could install ground anchors and steel beams but you should hire an engineer.

 

[Anglachel]

You posted the same question over at the contractors forum. I assume you were flamed and driven away with pitchforks.
You can fill in the basement. Compaction will be an issue, your only option will be to wet the soil as you place it. I can't tell you if it will solve the problem or not, you might just be trading one issue for another. Filling it with concrete would give you a better chance of success, though that will cost a few bucks as well.

Apparently hollow block retaining walls are common in some parts of the country. Why anyone thinks they're a long term solution is beyond me. I don't understand why they don't collapse when they're being backfilled.

I’ve talked to the guy who remodeled the house. He said the wall was filled in with concrete and metal bars.

 

[jmagg]

Use roof gutters to divert water away from the foundation. Bowed block walls are usually a result of freeze / thaw.

 

[Anglachel]

Yes that may be cheaper, but it won't do anything. You could install ground anchors and steel beams but you should hire an engineer.

Hiring an engineer is a little out of my price range, plus I wouldn’t even know where to start looking for one.

 

[Greenman]

I’ve talked to the guy who remodeled the house. He said the wall was filled in with concrete and metal bars.

Have you verified that? Is there a plan and an inspection record?
The problem is that you're trying to repair a problem that you don't understand. Before you can fix the wall you need to know exactly what's broken. Is it the actual wall failing because of incorrect construction? Is it a soils condition or incorrect drainage?

It sounds to me like you're going to take a stab at the cheap and easy fix, I totally get that, but understand that it might not solve the problem.

 

[Anglachel]

Use roof gutters to divert water away from the foundation. Bowed block walls are usually a result of freeze / thaw.

Both of my gutters were leaking and have been fixed since we’ve moved in. On one side, I have built the ground near the foundation to try to get water to flow away from the wall. On the other side I may need to install a drain to keep it away from the bowing wall.

 

[Greenman]

Both of my gutters were leaking and have been fixed since we’ve moved in. On one side, I have built the ground near the foundation to try to get water to flow away from the wall. On the other side I may need to install a drain to keep it away from the bowing wall.

Two more bits of information that alter the solution. I didn't pick up another piece of the puzzle, you noted that the basement floor is mud. Figuring out why it's mud is half the answer to your problem.

You absolutely need a professional to look at the problem. There just isn't any getting around it.

 

[Dranoche]

How much has the wall moved or distorted? Do you know if the wall has a drain? The wall should have a drain to prevent a buildup of hydrostatic pressure against the wall. Are there any moisture issues in the basement? Correcting surface drainage was a good first step as it helps to prevent the issue, but you still want the drain as a backup.

The basement can be filled in to balance the surcharge on the wall but as mentioned already it needs to be placed in lifts and compacted. If you ever sell the house you'll also need letter from an engineer detailing and documenting this.

You can contact a geotechnical engineer to evaluate the conditions outside the wall and/or a structural to evaluate the wall itself, but you're probably better off researching foundation repair contractors in the area and contacting a couple that have been well received. They should have an engineer or engineers on staff or work closely with other engineers for geotechnical and structural evaluation and analysis.

 

[sdifox]

That is a foundation wall. Fix it properly or your house is doomed.

 

[Greenman]

The Op posted the same question over at the contractors forum, I don't recall what advice he received, if any. Those fellows can be down right hostile to homeowners and the DIY crowd.

 

[herm0016]

@Greenman which contractors forum? contractors talk?

 

[Greenman]

@Greenman which contractors forum? contractors talk?

That's the one. Great place, bunch of bad tempered, crusty old contractors, I fit right in. Those boy's do not give out advice to the DIY folks, or those asking if their contractor "did it right". Those threads are usually closed before they get to ugly. They're pretty nasty about pricing questions as well.

 

[waffleironhead]

First and foremost you need to bring in a professional to assess the basement wall. There are companies who specialize in foundation repairs.
Given your description you have few options:
1: you excavate and replace the bowed wall.
2) excavate and pour another wall right next to the failing wall and tie them together.
3) if the block wall is not already filled, you can excavate, then straighten the wall and fill the voids with cement.
4) you can do a basement deletion, which essentially is filling the whole basement with sand.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

First and foremost you need to bring in a professional to assess the basement wall. There are companies who specialize in foundation repairs.
Given your description you have few options:
1: you excavate and replace the bowed wall.
2) excavate and pour another wall right next to the failing wall and tie them together.
3) if the block wall is not already filled, you can excavate, then straighten the wall and fill the voids with cement.
4) you can do a basement deletion, which essentially is filling the whole basement with sand.

I was involved in a transaction that did #2 on a dirt floor fieldstone basement. They left the receipt and it wasn’t that much money to remedy. I forgot how much the seller spent but it was around $8-10k which I know is a lot but foundations are super important and I would have guessed a lot more to essentially replace an entire side of a foundation.
Also engineering companies are pretty easy to work with. They will leave specific instructions so a guy like @Greenman can follow to fix. They aren’t that expensive either.
Finally if this is something you plan on selling you could leave the problem as is but absolutely get an engineer to have a repair plan and ideally get some bids for it. Price property appropriately and see what happens. DO NOT do a cheap fix to conceal the problem. Foundation problems will always come up during inspection and if someone opts out of inspection plan on there being a lawsuit over the concealed defect.

Don’t mess around with foundation problems.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

BTW engineering companies are not that expensive. Region dependent but going to say they average $250-500 give or take.

 

[Greenman]

I was involved in a transaction that did #2 on a dirt floor fieldstone basement. They left the receipt and it wasn’t that much money to remedy. I forgot how much the seller spent but it was around $8-10k which I know is a lot but foundations are super important and I would have guessed a lot more to essentially replace an entire side of a foundation.
Also engineering companies are pretty easy to work with. They will leave specific instructions so a guy like @Greenman can follow to fix. They aren’t that expensive either.
Finally if this is something you plan on selling you could leave the problem as is but absolutely get an engineer to have a repair plan and ideally get some bids for it. Price property appropriately and see what happens. DO NOT do a cheap fix to conceal the problem. Foundation problems will always come up during inspection and if someone opts out of inspection plan on there being a lawsuit over the concealed defect.

Don’t mess around with foundation problems.

Good advice, but unfortunately the fellow needs the quick and cheap band aid. He's probably going to go the fill in rout, and do it incorrectly.

 

[olds]

You posted the same question over at the contractors forum.

I thought I saw this on diychatroom

 

[Greenman]

I thought I saw this on diychatroom

That's where the contractors forum sends everyone they run off.
The fellow is looking for someone to tell him that filling his basement with dirt is the right answer. It might work, but I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it without first evaluating the issue.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

That's where the contractors forum sends everyone they run off.
The fellow is looking for someone to tell him that filling his basement with dirt is the right answer. It might work, but I sure as hell wouldn't recommend it without first evaluating the issue.

As a Northeastern guy filling a basement with dirt even properly packed dirt sounds horrible.
Pretty much every non mobile home house has a basement. Some old houses (think 100 year old) have small stoop type basements like maybe 5 feet of clearance.
The thought of filling that in and having a door to nowhere plus the damp smell I assume would permeate your living space.
I’ve seen weird stuff in old houses:
Strange cave like basements
Sub basements that are super creepy
I’ve seen old tree trunks supporting the floors above, typically someone added a footing and temporary jack to even stuff out
I’ve seen large boulders being used as support with the added temporary jack like above
I’ve seen mixes of quick fixes from different owners during different decades, why don’t people remove old supports???
Ive seen fieldstone basements that have shifted
Fieldstone basements someone at some point just jammed a bunch of mortar into to make it look more solid