IDE has ticked me off for the last time....maybe

[geekender]

Well, my PC uses a WD600BB drive that has recently started to access info only when it gets the notion. Sometimes it will be recognized at boot, sometimes you have to reboot two or three times for it to show up in bios. I moved it around, so I know it is not the controller. My 30gb maxtor (backup) is fine on either controller, so I have started backing up essential info. I have only once used SCSI and that was with an Adaptec 2940 controller and 2gb drive, fairly slow access. But I know that SCSI is more durable and less finicky than the IDE. I am considering a 29160 or a SCSI raid controller and a fast 10k-15k rpm drive. Don't want to spend more than $250 for the setup with cables and terminators. Just want to throw it out there for some ideas.

 

[bunker]

Have you tried the drive in another comp? Could be the drive itself and not anything to do with IDE.

 

[Ameesh]

unless your running a file server, i'd say scsi is soooooo not worth it.

 

[geekender]

Bunker, remember at GW when I had my spare computer go down right after Frank left? Same symptoms here. I know it is the drive, I just am sick of having drives go bad. I have heard rave reviews on the amount of punishment SCSI can take.

 

[bunker]

Ahhhh....I know nothing about scsi.


Moving on....nothing for me here .

 

[Instagib]

If you can find a good deal on everything SCSI is definetly worth it.

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: geekender
I have heard rave reviews on the amount of punishment SCSI can take.

I'd love to see something besides urban myth to back this up -- SCSI is certainly better at servicing queued transactions on a server because of the intelligent controller, but that has nothing to do with the drive mechanism itself.

If you're going by anecdotal evidence, my brother's a Machead and has worn out several SCSI drives over the last decade through heavy PhotoShop use. Also, there will be many more stories of IDE failure from people you know since the volume of IDE shipped is at least 15 or 20-to-1 over SCSI.

Not flaming, just curious whether any proof is out there.

 

[Adul]

I would love to go SCSI myself

 

[rahvin]

Best proof is in the MTBF ratings and the warranty periods. SCSI drives have typical MTBF ratings that are at least 4 times those of IDE drives, in addition the drives carry 5 year instead of 3 year warrentys standard. What better proof is there?

 

[geekender]

Dave, point taken. However, I don't know many companies that are switching their SCSI arrays over to IDE even at a third of the price. IDE is quickly becoming a cheap alternative to SCSI in price and performance. But I am concerned with durability and can't find enough "proof", which is why I posed the question to begin with .

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Best proof is in the MTBF ratings and the warranty periods. SCSI drives have typical MTBF ratings that are at least 4 times those of IDE drives, in addition the drives carry 5 year instead of 3 year warrentys standard. What better proof is there?

That's what I was going to say

One thing though - SCSI drives tend to be mainly kept in servers and/or server rooms where temperatures are much lower and/or constant due to good cooling and ventilation from the server they are housed in and also from the lower ambient temperatures in the server rooms themselves. Heat is one of the greatest factors in reducing the life of a drive. If the SCSI drives are kept cooler on average, than your typical IDE device, you will see higher MTBF ratings.

IDE drives are usually kept in small, poorly ventilated cases, crammed up to a wall with little to no breathing room, and in rooms with drastically higher ambient temperatures.

Just a thought.

 

[geekender]

Well I suppose a promise TX4 with 4 20gb drives and a Raid 5 setup would be a lot cheaper.....

 

[DaveSimmons]

Originally posted by: rahvin
Best proof is in the MTBF ratings and the warranty periods. SCSI drives have typical MTBF ratings that are at least 4 times those of IDE drives, in addition the drives carry 5 year instead of 3 year warrentys standard. What better proof is there?

That is pretty convincing I'd still probably go with a pair of RAID 1 mirrored IDE drives for a failure-tolerant desktop system, but that does show you get some extra durability for the extra $$$.

 

[joohang]

I love to go RAID5 SCSI.

 

[rgwalt]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

Originally posted by: rahvin
Best proof is in the MTBF ratings and the warranty periods. SCSI drives have typical MTBF ratings that are at least 4 times those of IDE drives, in addition the drives carry 5 year instead of 3 year warrentys standard. What better proof is there?

That is pretty convincing I'd still probably go with a pair of RAID 1 mirrored IDE drives for a failure-tolerant desktop system, but that does show you get some extra durability for the extra $$$.

I would tend to agree here. An IDE RAID card and two (or 4 drives for striping/mirroring) would be a more cost effective solution in the long run, IMHO. Driver waranties don't mean a whole lot to me. If the drive fails in 3 years, the replacement isn't going to be nearly expensive as the drive was when you bought it, and the replacement certainly isn't worth the cost of the lost data.

On my next comp, I'm probably going to deploy a 4 drive striping/mirroring array. Sure, the drives are twice as expensive, but nothing sucks worse than losing a PhD research project to a crashed disk on a RAID array. One thing worth researching is the testing conditions for MTBF for IDE vs SCSI. Look into replacing your current system with an IDE striping/mirroring RAID solution and compare the cost with a SCSI solution.

Ryan

 

[Electric Amish]

Don't want to spend more than $250 for the setup with cables and terminators. Just want to throw it out there for some ideas.

Hahahaha!

Good, freakin' luck!

amish

 

[geekender]

Amish, I can easily go to E*Bay or the FS/FT forums and put together a deal.

 

[rahvin]

With old/used equipment. After joe schmo AT trader has banged a couple drives around for a couple years and then shipped them to you do you honestly think you will get more reliability? Your budget is to low to even be considering scsi. You will have 4 year old equiment with that budget.

 

[joohang]

Yeah.

Unless your budget is $250 + some stuff you plan to sell and make up for the rest, I say it's better to go with IDE.

 

[Instagib]

Originally posted by: geekender
Amish, I can easily go to E*Bay or the FS/FT forums and put together a deal.

I got an Adaptec 29160 retail adapter with cables and an IBM 9gb U160 drive for 165.00 shipped. Guess where:

You got it, right here at FS/FT.

 

[geekender]

I have a 60gb WD600BB that I am about to RMA and get back. That should cover the difference.

 

[rahvin]

got an Adaptec 29160 retail adapter with cables and an IBM 9gb U160 drive for 165.00 shipped. Guess where:

Good for you! And just how many RPM's is that SCSI drive, what is it's access time and maximum transfer rate? How old is it? How long is the warrenty good for?

A LOT of those cheap 9.1 drives are 7200rpm, get damn hot, have high access times (near IDE) and are OLD. If you got SCSI just to say you have SCSI without considering the cost/benefits and frankly the performance of the equipment you did get then I can't really comment. (oh and why the hell would you get a U160 card?)

Unless you are willing to lay down the $$$ and get atlas's or X15's then I really think SCSI is a waste of money and provides no benefits over IDE. If you want reliability get yourself a decent backup or get a 3ware IDE raid card and run Raid 5.

 

[RockDog]

oops! I tried to hit cancel before my reply was sent.

 

[Peter007]

Here is my .02 cent!

I agree with everything about SCSI being more reliable than IDE till I read you saying.........
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don't want to spend more than $250 for the setup with cables and terminators. Just want to throw it out there for some ideas.
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I'm choking with laughter as I'm typing: for $250, you can probably buy yourself a really nice passive SCSI Terminator, if you want an active terminator, that will be another $50.

Generally SCSI are better, but It is gonna COST YOU - No way around that, Sorry

As a person who own SCSI for a long time, I must admit that SCSI no longer has the performance liability. In fact, I think the latest IDE (with 8mb cache) really match and exceeded SCSI at fraction of a cost.

Too bad You don't live in CA, I would be glad to trade my Seagate Barracuda 7200 UW 9.1G SCSI HD for an 5400 IDE with a 20-60g capacity.

However, Western Digital don't make the most Reliable IDE drives; so you're bad IDE experience maybe the Fault of WD more than the Interface. I had 3 WD died on me (the infamous Click of Death), I just don't trust WD anymore.

 

[Photon]

hmm, this might be related..
but sometimes when my computer locks up and i manually reboot, my ntfs drive doesn't show up. i have to shut down and leave it there for a few sec, then reboot and it shows up again