IDC: Tablets Outselling Desktops and Notebooks Put Together in the UK

[dma0991]

Tablets/smartphones and desktops/laptops will simply coexist with each other or at least converge at some point unless Microsoft decides to royally screw themselves like W8 did.

The post-PC era nonsense has been said over and over again. The horse is already dead. Let it rest.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Perhaps a better analogy would be that people are finding ways to do work, whether it's real or not depends on your interpretation, on a tablet or even a smartphone ! People could still do that "real" work on a single core & a few MHz of a processor based machine in the 90's & the same people can do that work without the need of a desktop today ! So in my view its all about adaptability & versatility, also convenience, so if you think people are being lazy or smart@ss for choosing a tablet or a smartphone for doing their work, whatever that maybe, then you're simply deriding their efforts !

Anyways IIRC you did say that we don't have too many programs that use, or need for that matter, quad core x86 chips efficiently so why is choosing a high/mid range tablet such a big deal because less that 1% of the general populace, having desktops, actually do heavy duty work that needs the power of a desktop :hmm:

Your post is such an obvious distortion of my earlier posts that it borders more on a personal attack than any logical argument.

 

[R0H1T]

Your post is such an obvious distortion of my earlier posts that it borders more on a personal attack than any logical argument.

How so, perhaps it was a gross oversimplification on my part but AFAIK what you basically said was that any amount of productive/real work can't be done on tablets, any tablet for that matter, am I right ? If not then you could elaborate as to what you were trying to say because outside of certain specific workloads that also require a huge amount of GPU power almost anything, including lots of typing, can be done on a tablet but you just can't write them off due to a lack of keyboard & to an extent processing power !

 

[ShintaiDK]

How so, perhaps it was a gross oversimplification on my part but AFAIK what you basically said was that any amount of productive/real work can't be done on tablets, any tablet for that matter, am I right ? If not then you could elaborate as to what you were trying to say because outside of certain specific workloads that also require a huge amount of GPU power almost anything, including lots of typing, can be done on a tablet !

How fast do you type on a tablet vs a keyboard on a PC?

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Not to mention we know even Skylake will be LGA based.

Its amazing what you can make people believe. Any sense of source critisism is completely gone.

Yep. This is our modern (mis)information age -- one person says something and then everyone else copies it and voila! It's the "consensus". Never mind that 99% of the people saying it have never actually looked into the matter to see if there's anything behind it.

Wikipedia is a perfect example. Anyone can put anything in there at any time, and then it gets quoted like it's gospel, and cloned a thousand times across the Internet. I spent much of the last few weeks researching computer history, and on dozens of occasions when I double-checked claims from Wikipedia pages, I found the only place they were ever mentioned were on clones of those same pages, and the claims turned out to be incorrect based on more reliable sources.

This BGA-only issue has never made any sense to me whatsoever. It's not just enthusiasts that would scream about this -- businesses would not be happy either. Intel would be opening the door to AMD to take over a chunk of their market share for basically no reason -- it's not like making an LGA chip is more difficult than a BGA one.

"A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." -- A good example, since this is often attributed to Mark Twain but it's not actually confirmed that he ever said it.

 

[R0H1T]

Tablets/smartphones and desktops/laptops will simply coexist with each other or at least converge at some point unless Microsoft decides to royally screw themselves like W8 did.

The post-PC era nonsense has been said over and over again. The horse is already dead. Let it rest.

Actually you're stating the opposite of what MS tried to do with win8, they tried to make a single interface for smartphones/tablets/desktops but figured out in the end that metro wasn't their best foot forward especially with the plethora of legacy applications on desktop that aren't touch centric !

 

[R0H1T]

How fast do you type on a tablet vs a keyboard on a PC?

Depends on the specific app & predictive typing being used, haven't measured though, text formatting however is a different matter altogether.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Depends on the specific app & predictive typing being used, haven't measured though, text formatting however is a different matter altogether.

So the answer is slower. And time is money...well you know the rest

 

[Unoid]

students/professionals will still need laptops or PCs at home for school work and projects and for business suites. Sure some can use tablets for spreadsheets and word processing but it's horribly slow.

Tablets = web consumption and entertainment. The cannibalism of the PC/laptop market will start to relinquish.

 

[dma0991]

Actually you're stating the opposite of what MS tried to do with win8, they tried to make a single interface for smartphones/tablets/desktops but figured out in the end that metro wasn't their best foot forward especially with the plethora of legacy applications on desktop that aren't touch centric !

There's a difference between doing it right and doing it wrong like Microsoft did. Modern UI is a complete flop not because of trying to merge the experience together, its because they created a mess which became less user friendly.

Had they placed more emphasis on reinventing the desktop instead of overlaying Modern UI over it, W8 would've have had a better ending. The desktop experience is half baked when the buttons on the ribbon are too small for touch.

A convergence is what I consider the Ubuntu phone to be. Except that I've never liked Canonical's decision to go with Unity instead of Gnome 3 which would've been a better touch experience IMO.

 

[R0H1T]

So the answer is slower. And time is money...well you know the rest

And if you don't have access to a desktop or a laptop for some reason ? Tablets are way more convenient than any of the two above & one can even type & walk, not recommended though, with them.

 

[R0H1T]

There's a difference between doing it right and doing it wrong like Microsoft did. Modern UI is a complete flop not because of trying to merge the experience together, its because they created a mess which became less user friendly.

Had they placed more emphasis on reinventing the desktop instead of overlaying Modern UI over it, W8 would've have had a better ending. The desktop experience is half baked when the buttons on the ribbon are too small for touch.

A convergence is what I consider the Ubuntu phone to be. Except that I've never liked Canonical's decision to go with Unity instead of Gnome 3 which would've been a better touch experience IMO.

I'm not debating the implementation part, to each his own I guess but win8 is a direction that'll probably make or break MS so its not upto me nor upto you to second guess their decision because as I said its a matter of taste, even though enterprises should ideally have an option to completely turn metro off if need be.

 

[Hulk]

Therein lies a problem. Seems to me that many tablet manufacturers would like little walled gardens for their devices, telling you what you can't and can do (for more money) with it. For instance a $199 Nexus 7 sounds interesting to me and is almost cheap enough for an impulse buy, but I really don't like the idea of no micro SD slot. I guess more expensive tablets have that feature, as well as video out and maybe other stuff, but then I'd really have to think about the purchase as they are no longer cheap enough.

Another good point I never really zeroed in on. Cell phones and tablets are "Apple-esc" in that the user is very constrained on what they can and can't do with the device. You have limited ability to customize the OS, there are applications that you can't uninstall... basically we've gotten used to quite a bit of freedom with Windows. I for one accept the limitations that come with cell phones and tablets for the moment as I have my notebook and desktop for my "real" work machines. But it is annoying and the drawbacks of rooting are there. I recently sent in my S3 for warranty service. If I'd rooted it then I would have had to unroot it and hope everything was undetectable.

Also I also like having the microSD card slot in my S3 and Galaxy Tab 10.1. Despite the hatred from I forget who at Anandtech comments at one of the recent podcasts I find them useful. I have tons of movies on the cards for my kids and it provides a lot of extra space for video recording, which I do quite often on my S3.

As for reliability? Knock on wood I haven't had a failure yet in all of my years of using them. And I'm not stupid so I don't store critical information on them. They are basically a temporary storage device for important data while it is being moved from one place to another, or a long-term storage for relatively unimportant data like media that is easily reloaded should a catastrophic failure occur.

 

[blackened23]

Yep. This is our modern (mis)information age -- one person says something and then everyone else copies it and voila! It's the "consensus". Never mind that 99% of the people saying it have never actually looked into the matter to see if there's anything behind it.

Charles, with all due respect, I understand your cynicism. After all, we have the likes of the Galego on this very forum who spreads nonsense about 8 core chips and the ramifications for the future, but I won't spend time talking about how ridiculous I think that is. Not trying to disrespect Galego either, I just disagree with his opinions on many levels....anyway, I certainly understand your cynicism.

That said, let's rewind here. Let's try to understand what really happened: the story broke when several motherboard manufacturers reported to techpowerup that THEY were told by intel, to expect everything to go BGA only by the time broadwell was released. Understandably, this caused a furor because this would have dramatic ramifications on their business models. Off of the top of my head, those were reported it to TPU included Asus, ASrock, MSI, among others. Now, please don't brush this off as something that started off as an internet rumor. Clearly there was a very clear and real reason why the rumor started, and that is why TPU reported it - and that is when the stuff hit the proverbial fan and enthusiasts were in an uproar.

Now, here's my theory. No I cannot prove it, no i'm not sure. But I think that intel realized that going BGA only would destroy their relationship with many motherboard manufacturers as well as completely undermine their business models - as well, desktop and LGA is still a valid platform for which to sell chips, and is still profitable. So I think intel reneged. They changed their mind after the uproar.

That's just my theory, and again I can't prove it. Anyway: I understand your cynicism after seeing some of the nonsense posted around here about FX 8 core chips, I know where you're coming from when you immediately want to discount stories. I do it too. In any case, thank for you clarifying things. It is good news for us, the desktop users, that LGA will remain. So long story short, thank you for the clarification you provided.



What you did here is a member callout. This is something not tolerated here.

It doesn't matter how much you disagree with another member's opinions/suggestions/analysis/interpretation/wishes/desires. You cannot just arbitrarily call them out like this, effectively attacking them personally.

What you can do is debate them rationally. If that becomes too tiresome, then simply let it go.

Please don't repeat this behavior in the future.

Moderator jvroig

 

[ShintaiDK]

Now, here's my theory. No I cannot prove it, no i'm not sure. But I think that intel realized that going BGA only would destroy their relationship with many motherboard manufacturers as well as completely undermine their business models - as well, desktop and LGA is still a valid platform for which to sell chips, and is still profitable. So I think intel reneged. They changed their mind after the uproar.

That's just my theory, and again I can't prove it. Anyway: I understand your cynicism after seeing some of the nonsense posted around here about FX 8 core chips, I know where you're coming from when you immediately want to discount stories. I do it too. In any case, thank for you clarifying things. It is good news for us, the desktop users, that LGA will remain. So long story short, thank you for the clarification you provided.

Now you are just making up utter crap and BS. (Like the history you believed, and obvious still believe in.).



This post was completely unnecessary.

Look at the result of the conversation between blackened and Charles K. Their posts were tempered and, most of all, civil and respectful. That's an example of a good exchange of information and clarification.

Yours was out of line.

Please avoid posts like this in the future.

Moderator jvroig

 

[blackened23]

Now you are just making up utter crap and BS. (Like the history you believed, and obvious still believe in.).

The hell is your problem? Now, you are just being a jerk - I'm not making up anything, what I said about TPU is true - and the follow up bit is a theory and nothing more. Theory. I never stated it as fact and never will. Apparently LGA will remain, and I appreciate the clarification about this. Thank you, and i'm not being sarcastic - I didn't see the followup stories about Broadwell and BGA/LGA which you mentioned. Your hostile attitude, however, is surprising. Don't lower yourself to the level of someone like the Gal.




"Don't lower yourself to the level of someone like the [Galego]" - this also counts as member callout.

I am sure you would not want to be the subject of some other member's casual attacks like this, using you as a negative example when you are not even involved in the immediate discussion and citing examples of your supposed negative behavior in topics not at all related to the thread. It doesn't feel good to be on the receiving end. The Forum Guidelines offer this sort of protection to all members - even the ones you dislike or disagree with.

Please don't repeat this behavior in the future.

Moderator jvroig

 

[CHADBOGA]

Let's face it, Intel missed the nascent mobile CPU market by a mile, and is trying to correct the course of their ship, but it's a behemoth tanker, and they may never be able to outrace the smaller, more responsive firms (Nvidia anyone?)

LOL. Nvidia are the least of Intel's problems.

Qualcomm is now Intel's most significant rival.

 

[R0H1T]

LOL. Nvidia are the least of Intel's problems.

Qualcomm+Apple+Samsung+Mediatek(etc.) is now Intel's most significant rival.

There, fixed that for you ()

 

[Charles Kozierok]

Appreciate your temperate response.

That said, let's rewind here. Let's try to understand what really happened: the story broke when several motherboard manufacturers reported to techpowerup that THEY were told by intel, to expect everything to go BGA only by the time broadwell was released. Understandably, this caused a furor because this would have dramatic ramifications on their business models. Off of the top of my head, those were reported it to TPU included Asus, ASrock, MSI, among others. Now, please don't brush this off as something that started off as an internet rumor. Clearly there was a very clear and real reason why the rumor started, and that is why TPU reported it - and that is when the stuff hit the proverbial fan and enthusiasts were in an uproar.

The reason I call it an Internet rumor is because the entire thing was based on a single source. I just looked it up again, and it appears that this whole issue originated not with Techpowerup, but with a site called "Japanese PC Watch". I dug up their article, and it is, naturally, in Japanese, which I cannot read. Google translate mangled the crap out of it as well.

The thing is that I doubt the English sources that reported on this speak Japanese either. I think, at best, they got someone who did to summarize the information for them, or they just got the general gist of what was being reported and ran with it. Here's how Techpowerup quoted their source: "The information comes from Japanese PC Watch, which cites sources in the PC industry." That's not very specific, is it? And then once it is on one of these generic tech "news sites", the others all clone it without question, so it just gets passed around and around until it has a life of its own.

This appears to be the original document. Maybe someone here speaks Japanese and can tell us if it really has any details in it.

 

[LogOver]

There, fixed that for you ()

Asus already started to sell FonePad. Another tablet (ME302C) is planned. And now (it seems) Samsung is going to join the party with next intel-based Galaxy Tab.

 

[R0H1T]

Asus already started to sell FonePad. Another tablet (ME302C) is planned. And now (it seems) Samsung is going to join the party with next intel-based Galaxy Tab.

The Intel numbers for the tablet/smartphone market are still an overwhelming minority & their pricing structure(high margins) doesn't allow them the luxury of high volumes/higher growth that they enjoyed for the last decade or so in the PC market.

 

[LogOver]

The Intel numbers for the tablet/smartphone market are still an overwhelming minority & their pricing structure(high margins) doesn't allow them the luxury of high volumes/higher growth that they enjoyed for the last decade or so in the PC market.

Bigger share for x86 in tablet market is just matter of time. I don't see how "pricing structure" can prevent it. Intel did not state that they are not ready to sell chips for low margin but high volume. Any way, all pricing matters are more complicated than it looks like. As an example, the official price for celeron 847 is $134, but you can bay motherboard + celeron 847 combo just for $80 on newegg.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Seeing Samsung using x86 in tablets now is a clear sign where we are going.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Yeah, how many times Intel/etc tried to bury x86? And lives

Rumor is that Samsung is going to adopt an Atom processor for the Galaxy Tab 3 10.1. The rumor appeared over the weekend on Android Authority and came from people running benchmarking utilities on test tablets, which exposed the chip being used.

According to the site, the Galaxy Tab 3 10.1 will come with a 10.1-inch display with 1280 x 800 resolution, a 1.6GHz Intel Atom Z2560 processor (dual-core with HyperThreading), a 400MHz PowerVR SGX 544 MP2 GPU and Android 4.2.2.

Source.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

Actually you're stating the opposite of what MS tried to do with win8, they tried to make a single interface for smartphones/tablets/desktops but figured out in the end that metro wasn't their best foot forward especially with the plethora of legacy applications on desktop that aren't touch centric !

not to mention the fact that desktops and laptops themselves arent touch centric from an ergonomic standpoint. there is just no reason, other than to make it look like a tablet, for a desktop or laptop to have a touchscreen