Originally posted by: Rollo
Ackmed's nVidia bashing angered me, so I ordered a 5900U to replace my 9800Pro with.
No more 5800?
:beer:
SneakyStuff
Diamond Member
- Jan 13, 2004
- 4,294
- 0
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How am I boosting my ego?
FYI, I have a 9800XT in one machine, and a 5900NU@5950 in another. Unlike most people, Im not bias. What I said was fact.
Good try though.
Where are all of the detailed explanations of how to use the NV3x functions and it's "advanced"(hard) architecture and special features effectively in tons of situations? Where could I find information from nvidia about their architecture that would help me speed up their cards? I'm guessing since none of that publicly exists(like it does with AMD, Intel, and ATI since they use a model DX9 architecture, so using any document on DX9 made by microsoft is helpful and would run extremely efficient code on ATI cards), the only choice is to become assimilated to their TWIMTBP program just so I could get Nvidia devs to help me get past their problems, and tell me what they are, not having to rely on something that somebody else speculated about and doesn't know for sure
Start with their site
To get access to everything they have available sign up for their dev rel program. It's free and you don't need to be part of TWIMTBP(actually, landing a TWIMTBP contract takes some doing, you get paid for that).Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Insomniak
What? Where exactly have you seen "effort and emotion?" As I recall, I was "stating the established facts". God knows, we can't have that.
No such thing as "facts" anymore. All your posting is someone elses perception of a fact. We can debate 'til the end of time, but how boring would that be?
Known fact that ATI hardware runs the Dawn Demo faster than Nvidia hardware, even through a wrapper. It's not *technically* confirmed that the Doom 3 reccomendation is a marketing ploy, but please, I refuse to believe you're that naive. Now c'mon, play nice and I'll give you a cookie.
Keysplayr
Elite Member
- Jan 16, 2003
- 21,219
- 55
- 91
Originally posted by: Insomniak
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Insomniak
What? Where exactly have you seen "effort and emotion?" As I recall, I was "stating the established facts". God knows, we can't have that.
No such thing as "facts" anymore. All your posting is someone elses perception of a fact. We can debate 'til the end of time, but how boring would that be?
Known fact that ATI hardware runs the Dawn Demo faster than Nvidia hardware, even through a wrapper. It's not *technically* confirmed that the Doom 3 reccomendation is a marketing ploy, but please, I refuse to believe you're that naive. Now c'mon, play nice and I'll give you a cookie.
Its all relative on what a person wants to believe Acanthus. I only believe what I see with my own eyes and not what someone else tells me. Unless of course it is common sense. So naivity is not the description you were looking for. More likely shrewd or not gullable.. Thanks for the cookie offer though.
Link?
Amusing since you list two processors as well as five instructions sets, of which three are common to the two processors. What does this kind of comparison have to do with:
If you want to do a simple comparison of the cards from the two next gen games effectively representing each API, consider that Id has not mentioned that they found it necessary to do three times the amount of work to get the ATI cards to work at a reasonable framerate and image quality. Valve has mentioned repeatedly that they've had to do more than three times the amount of work developing an NVidia codepath that will make the FXs run at reasonable framerate and image quality. Until Id comes out and says the same about ATI, it certainly would seem to indicate that overall ATI supports more features useful to both companies using both APIs.
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Insomniak
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: Insomniak
What? Where exactly have you seen "effort and emotion?" As I recall, I was "stating the established facts". God knows, we can't have that.
No such thing as "facts" anymore. All your posting is someone elses perception of a fact. We can debate 'til the end of time, but how boring would that be?
Known fact that ATI hardware runs the Dawn Demo faster than Nvidia hardware, even through a wrapper. It's not *technically* confirmed that the Doom 3 reccomendation is a marketing ploy, but please, I refuse to believe you're that naive. Now c'mon, play nice and I'll give you a cookie.
Its all relative on what a person wants to believe Acanthus. I only believe what I see with my own eyes and not what someone else tells me. Unless of course it is common sense. So naivity is not the description you were looking for. More likely shrewd or not gullable.. Thanks for the cookie offer though.
First of all, I'm not Acanthus. Second of all, people believing something other than fact does not change fact, but perception. Third, naive:
Main Entry: na·ive
Variant(s): or na·ïve /nä-'Ev/
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): na·iv·er; -est
Etymology: French naïve, feminine of naïf, from Old French, inborn, natural, from Latin nativus native
1 : marked by unaffected simplicity : ARTLESS, INGENUOUS
2 a : deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment; especially : CREDULOUS b : not previously subjected to experimentation or a particular experimental situation <made the test with naive rats>; also : not having previously used a particular drug (as marijuana)
3 : SELF-TAUGHT, PRIMITIVE
synonym see NATURAL
- na·ive·ly or na·ïve·ly adverb
- na·ive·ness noun
gg, here's a cookie.
It all comes down to...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Actually, out of curiosity I checked out the id site as well as the Nvidia site, and can find no actual reference to this article at IGN at all on either site. You'd think Nvidia would be screaming it from the hills if this was the case. Neither Id's site nor Nvidia's has any such press release that I could find. Anyone know where IGN got their info from?
Closest thing I could find is this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nzone_doom3_home.html
Is that what they are basing their statements on?
Closest thing I could find is this: http://www.nvidia.com/object/nzone_doom3_home.html
Is that what they are basing their statements on?
Apocalypse23
Golden Member
- Jul 14, 2003
- 1,467
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sounds good for nvidia folks still holding their fxs with them. I was thinkin of gettin a 9800 pro or an Xt soon...might have to reconsider that.
Exactly like Gabe, yet Gabe is slammed as being a PR monkey for ATi.
Different set of circumstances. In this instance Carmack is saying there is no "quality" difference between 16,24, and 32 bit in his game. Newell was on a bashing spree and what seemed like a personal vendetta against Nvidia. If all Newell said at Shadey days was there is a noticeable difference in "quality" between 24 and 16bit in his game. Then he would have some legs to stand on.
Instead we got the whole PR show complete with insults, graphs, and lies about a game being ready to ship.
On top of that if Dave Baumen is to be believed they spent about a whole 8-12 weeks optimizing for the NV3.x chips. 8 weeks in a development cycle that probably started 3 years ago and that is "significant"? It kind of weakens his other crybaby argument that it takes so much longer to code for the FX cards.
My personal feelings are they got in over their head with this GPU. They didnt quite understand how to code for it and when ATI came up with the money they had their scapegoat. It is obvious from the code leak that game was in no way shade or form ready to ship on Sept 30th.
Different set of circumstances. In this instance Carmack is saying there is no "quality" difference between 16,24, and 32 bit in his game. Newell was on a bashing spree and what seemed like a personal vendetta against Nvidia. If all Newell said at Shadey days was there is a noticeable difference in "quality" between 24 and 16bit in his game. Then he would have some legs to stand on.
Instead we got the whole PR show complete with insults, graphs, and lies about a game being ready to ship.
On top of that if Dave Baumen is to be believed they spent about a whole 8-12 weeks optimizing for the NV3.x chips. 8 weeks in a development cycle that probably started 3 years ago and that is "significant"? It kind of weakens his other crybaby argument that it takes so much longer to code for the FX cards.
My personal feelings are they got in over their head with this GPU. They didnt quite understand how to code for it and when ATI came up with the money they had their scapegoat. It is obvious from the code leak that game was in no way shade or form ready to ship on Sept 30th.
JC said there's no "noticable" quality difference, and that's probably mainly because his engine doesn't stress high precision. HL2 is built on different principles.
IIRC, Newell also said it took them 5x longer to optimise for FX cards, not X amount of weeks in total.
Anyway, all of this is PR until we see the cards and games in trusted reviewers' hands. I don't believe either benchmarkety PR blitz--D3's or HL2's--was representative of final performance for either manufacturer in either game.
IIRC, Newell also said it took them 5x longer to optimise for FX cards, not X amount of weeks in total.
Anyway, all of this is PR until we see the cards and games in trusted reviewers' hands. I don't believe either benchmarkety PR blitz--D3's or HL2's--was representative of final performance for either manufacturer in either game.
Did you actually look at the link I posted (which happens to be where that marketing graphic links to)? It is not a press release. A press release normally quotes the company doing the endorsing, and throws a few comments in as to why they are doing it.
Let's recap.
- A marketing graphic is not a press release.
- A small page touting Doom III as the next big thing is not a press release.
Next time please make an effort to read and comprehend my entire post before posting and making yourself look like a fool.
What is it with all these armchair industry-leading game developers?
Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Did you actually look at the link I posted (which happens to be where that marketing graphic links to)? It is not a press release. A press release normally quotes the company doing the endorsing, and throws a few comments in as to why they are doing it.
Let's recap.
- A marketing graphic is not a press release.
- A small page touting Doom III as the next big thing is not a press release.
Next time please make an effort to read and comprehend my entire post before posting and making yourself look like a fool.
What is it with all these armchair industry-leading game developers?I'd like to see your analysis of exactly what is unfinished about the leaked source, and an estimate from yourself on how long it would take the valve team to finish it and beta test it. I'm not talking "a menu item is missing", I'm talking actually hard analysis of the source code, explaining why you believe that it is "obvious" that the game wasn't anywhere near close to being ready to ship on Sep 30th 2003. Since this is off topic, email it to me or start another thread when you are done your analysis, because I really am intrigued here. My email address is chsh1ca@yahoo.ca.
Because it hadnt gone gold yet? or even beta?
It never woulda made its release date, source stolen or not.
Yes, and what does this have to do with what I wrote? I wanted to know why it was obvious from the leaked source since Genx87 seems to be such the game developer that at a mere glance he can know if the source was unfinished.
Where is the evidence it hadn't gone beta? I'm not denying the possibility they would have missed their release date, but I want to know what in the source code which was leaked made it so obvious. IMO missing a release date isn't the end of the world. After all, I own every blizzard PC game since WCII...
Wow, there's some really good posts here, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of posts addressing the crux of the biscuit here. All this is saying is that Doom 3 will be best with Nvidia. As was pointed out earlier Carmack wrote his own mini OS to run Doom 3 (as he has done since at least Quake days). It's designed for Open GL which from what I understand is better than D3D. Thing is (and this is my point) how many other games are coming out that are optimized Open GL? Sure it's better, but Microsoft won the battle here right? So sure Doom 3 runs best on Nvidia, what about everything else?
Yes this gives me pause as I was just about to pick up a 9800Xt, but only because I want to see what Anand finds in terms of benchmarks with the next generation of cards from Nvidia and ATI. Until then we're all just talking about nothing.
Yes this gives me pause as I was just about to pick up a 9800Xt, but only because I want to see what Anand finds in terms of benchmarks with the next generation of cards from Nvidia and ATI. Until then we're all just talking about nothing.
Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Did you actually look at the link I posted (which happens to be where that marketing graphic links to)? It is not a press release. A press release normally quotes the company doing the endorsing, and throws a few comments in as to why they are doing it.
Let's recap.
- A marketing graphic is not a press release.
- A small page touting Doom III as the next big thing is not a press release.
Next time please make an effort to read and comprehend my entire post before posting and making yourself look like a fool.
What is it with all these armchair industry-leading game developers?I'd like to see your analysis of exactly what is unfinished about the leaked source, and an estimate from yourself on how long it would take the valve team to finish it and beta test it. I'm not talking "a menu item is missing", I'm talking actually hard analysis of the source code, explaining why you believe that it is "obvious" that the game wasn't anywhere near close to being ready to ship on Sep 30th 2003. Since this is off topic, email it to me or start another thread when you are done your analysis, because I really am intrigued here. My email address is chsh1ca@yahoo.ca.
chsh1ca, save your time. Genx87 thinks Nvidia's rampant driver cheats aren't cheats but "bugs". No point in arguing with a fanboy now, is there?
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/asus/v9950/index.php?p=13
There is no speed increase when using CG, CG is used for fixing shaders which don't work with HLSL, more work for devs. It still doesn't solve any speed issues related to the FX's architecture, which is unknown to the public and even developers
No.
No shit.
Uh huh.
Knew all this beforehand.
I wasn't the one stupid enough to keep investigating the situation after I saw the marketing graphic. If you insist on wasting my time, I'll insist on wasting yours.
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