id founders

[Texashiker]

omething you might not care about, but investors do.

The consumers and the investors should both care about a company producing quality product. Which is something id has not done in a decade.

 

[wuliheron]

The consumers and the investors should both care about a company producing quality product. Which is something id has not done in a decade.

Id has licensed their id tech 4 engine and video game franchises to other companies to produce Quake 4, Prey, Quake Wars, Wolfenstein, Brink, and Prey 2. If eight games in LESS than ten years including some very well selling games is not enough for you I suggest trying to make one yourself.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Id has licensed their id tech 4 engine and video game franchises to other companies to produce Quake 4, Prey, Quake Wars, Wolfenstein, Brink, and Prey 2. If eight games in LESS than ten years including some very well selling games is not enough for you I suggest trying to make one yourself.

Mass Effect Series, Gears of War Series, Batman AA and AC, that's 8 blockbuster games (you may not have liked GoW or ME,2,3 but they sold a lot of software) vs some games people forgot about a month after release?

Ok I'm exaggerating on the month thing.

Short sighted vision of the future if you ask me. Id has been working towards ray cast geometry for over twenty years and their slump with Doom 3 and Rage were merely necessary stepping stones toward achieving that goal. Making the latest and greatest variations on rasterization, which id first perfected, has never been their goal. These guys are shooting for the moon and either you can appreciate the fact they've survived this long and managed to make steady progress towards that goal or you are just another Walmart shopper hanging out in the video game department.

Nobody cares about what might be. People spend cash on what IS. It's ok to reach high but when you do nothing in the meantime people don't care who you were.

 

[Texashiker]

Id has licensed their id tech 4 engine and video game franchises to other companies to produce Quake 4, Prey, Quake Wars, Wolfenstein, Brink, and Prey 2.

And?

Besides prey and prey 2 (which I never played), you listed 4 B rated games that people forgot about in a matter of days after playing.

id, as a game developer is no longer relevant to the gaming community.

As an engine developer, yea, they might make a good engine. But we are comparing a company who makes just an engine to companies who make the whole product.

If you want to compare it to something, who makes the engine in your car, truck or SUV? Do you even care who makes it?

id has been relegated to writing the game engine. We should not idolize id because of something did a decade and a half ago.

 

[wuliheron]

And?

Besides prey and prey 2 (which I never played), you listed 4 B rated games that people forgot about in a matter of days after playing.

This is the same Walmart shopper fannnboyyy crap I hear all the time online. There are over 400 games released every year and maybe half a dozen in any given year that are blockbusters. Most of the 400+ games released I never even hear about and I'm glad, but the reason you keep hearing about id games is because they still sell very respectably even if they are not blockbusters. If all you want is the latest commercial crap with shiny bells and whistles that's fine by me, but the rest of want more from our video games.

 

[cmdrdredd]

This is the same Walmart shopper fannnboyyy crap I hear all the time online. There are over 400 games released every year and maybe half a dozen in any given year that are blockbusters. Most of the 400+ games released I never even hear about and I'm glad, but the reason you keep hearing about id games is because they still sell very respectably even if they are not blockbusters. If all you want is the latest commercial crap with shiny bells and whistles that's fine by me, but the rest of want more from our video games.

Keep hearing about ID? Where?

Ask any gamer under 30 years old who ID Software is and they'll probably have no clue.

 

[wuliheron]

Keep hearing about ID? Where?

Ask any gamer under 30 years old who ID Software is and they'll probably have no clue.

The average gamer today is OVER 30 and getting older. I couldn't care less what the little kids are impressed with. Heck, Mario is still the all time best selling game franchise but you'll never see it on my computer. I'd sooner go back to playing pinball.

 

[cmdrdredd]

29 is little kid now? You're so full of shit you could replace a herd of cows.

 

[wuliheron]

29 is little kid now? You're so full of shit you could replace a herd of cows.

The average gamer is 32, while the average PC gamer is 42. I couldn't care any more what a 29 year console gamer thinks than I do about little kids.

 

[Rifter]

ID is going downhill fast now. They used to be great, even epic in the quake days. Then doom 3 came out and was not even a real doom game(hello lack of hordes of monsters, which is what made doom doom) graphics were ok but game was not a true doom game. It was alright though, at this point they still could have been saved.

Then Rage came out, and that was the final nail in the coffin IMO. Rage just looks terrible, i mean first the texture flickering was so bad you might as well have been playing with hacks to have no textures and see through walls because you were halfway there already. Then they fix it and you realize you want them to break it again because the textures are seriously AT LEAST 10 years outdated if not more, there were games out over 10 years ago with much better textures than rage. Some of the tables and crap looked like it was of the half life 2 era of games. For a company known to push the limits of graphics/hardware rage was a complete and utter failure in every way shape and form, oh and the lack of any graphics options was just a slap in the face to PC gamers.

They might be able to pull off a comeback but at this point is going to require one hell of a game.

 

[wuliheron]

ID is going downhill fast now. They used to be great, even epic in the quake days. Then doom 3 came out and was not even a real doom game(hello lack of hordes of monsters, which is what made doom doom) graphics were ok but game was not a true doom game. It was alright though, at this point they still could have been saved.

They might be able to pull off a comeback but at this point is going to require one hell of a game.

Yeah, yeah. When Duke Nukem Forever came out it was universally panned by both critics and gamers, but it sold well anyway. We'll just have to wait and see which way the wind blows.

 

[Rifter]

Yeah, yeah. When Duke Nukem Forever came out it was universally panned by both critics and gamers, but it sold well anyway. We'll just have to wait and see which way the wind blows.

I think DNF did ok because of the prior games, people bought it just because the rest of the games were ok and people wanted to relive some old memories. Same reason alot of people bought doom 3 even after alot of the reviews said it was not a true doom game. Like i said ID still has a chance but if they pull off another rage thats going to be the end of them, they need another blockbuster not another disaster.

 

[diesbudt]

And?


If you want to compare it to something, who makes the engine in your car, truck or SUV? Do you even care who makes it?

id has been relegated to writing the game engine. We should not idolize id because of something did a decade and a half ago.

This metaphor is not a good choice. Tens if not Hundreds of factory companies make the individual car parts. Whether it be a part of the enginer, or the fuel pipeline, or the Exterior, or even the brakes.

Most "car" companies today just design the parts and make a few in their in house factory. The rest is made out of house and brought in (per their design) then put together from the ground up.

 

[diesbudt]

The average gamer is 32, while the average PC gamer is 42. I couldn't care any more what a 29 year console gamer thinks than I do about little kids.

Any evidence/stats to back this up? Because I find this almost impossible to believe with SOOOOOOOO many teens playing games, not to mention the CoD generation right behind me, (I am 24).

 

[diesbudt]

I think DNF did ok because of the prior games, people bought it just because the rest of the games were ok and people wanted to relive some old memories. Same reason alot of people bought doom 3 even after alot of the reviews said it was not a true doom game. Like i said ID still has a chance but if they pull off another rage thats going to be the end of them, they need another blockbuster not another disaster.

That is why I bought DNF (though I waited till $5) because of the memories of the original/N64 version.

And to be fair, I like it. It isn't amazing, but the fact that they even make fun of at the beginning that "the Duke" has been sitting around for just 12 years... and The music is kinda catchy. Plus the cheesyness of it all.

If you go in thinking this to be an epic FPS, you would be dissappointed. But if you go in expecting some cheesyness/small comedy as you play an egotistical muscle man who doesnt even take himself seriously, then its kinda a joy to play.

 

[dougp]

Any evidence/stats to back this up? Because I find this almost impossible to believe with SOOOOOOOO many teens playing games, not to mention the CoD generation right behind me, (I am 24).

Just last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8564342/Average-video-gamer-is-37.html

I saw something else recently where it supported the average age in the 30s, but it was on TV.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

This is patently false. The id tech 5 is a first step towards providing truly cinematic graphics for video games including on high end PC hardware. The texture streaming it uses is based on the same kind of system used by feature film animators for years and if you play Rage you'll notice many of the animations resemble those used by companies like Pixar. With cheap ultra high resolution monitors, AMD's new hardware acceleration for the technology, and Intel's upcoming 1Tb/s hybrid memory cubes being able to stream all those additional textures is becoming a major issue for desktop as well as console gaming.

What are you on about?

Rage used a lot of unique textures but the actual quality of the textures per area was insanely low, no where near cinematic quality in fact the quality wasn't even respectable compared to other PC games. Most gamers pointed out the blurry mess that was the textures in this game and have pretty much demanded a high res texture pack ever since.

They sold out just like Epic did with the Unreal engine and Crytek did with the Crytek engine, these engines are being modified to add cross platform development as a priority so developers can crank out the same game on all platforms. However this just brings the "cinematic quality" of shit tier 6 year old hardware to modern PC gaming platforms which sport significantly better hardware.

Carmack even admitted in interviews that the PC is basically an order of magnitude ahead of the consoles from a tech perspective and he regrets making the consoles the target platform. The tech in the idtech5 engine is basically nothing more than trying to overcome the extreme limitations of the console hardware most notably the texture streaming to overcome the texture budget restrictions. The texture streaming technology has not really brought any actual value to the PC, it's caused endless pop in issues for many gamers without providing a higher than average level of graphical fidelity.

It's clever tech to be sure, but lets be fair, it's about squeezing the most out of old tech rather than making the most of new tech, while consoles remain the target platforms for development this will always be the case.

 

[diesbudt]

Just last year: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/video-games/8564342/Average-video-gamer-is-37.html

I saw something else recently where it supported the average age in the 30s, but it was on TV.

"The ESA said that 45 percent of parents play games with their kids "at least weekly.""

This alone tells me they didn't differentiate parents just playing an hour with a child, vs a gamer, even an average one at that. Also 'game buyer age' is ridiculous when most parents buy their childrens games for them.

My dad (51) plays a game maybe an hour every few weeks. Thats it. That is not a gamer. That also points out that this survey would have included him, bumping the age up even more. It also depends who you ask...

If I was to ask all 20- year olds if they play video games. and that is it. My survey would show that 100% of all video game players are udner the age of 20. This survey is massivly flawed, add in the fact they don't define what a gamer is. Mobile games on a phone is obviously counted too based on the angry birds picture on the site. Which again isn't a "gamer".

I bet if I was to take a poll of all the online CoD, MMO, whateevr games that are actually played more than a few hours a week, I bet that age drops to the mid-early 20s.

I am not saying this survey's information isn't correct, I am saying that their survey isn't useful as it is too open to show any correlation to anything stated above, that was posted about age.

 

[nemesismk2]

Rage is an awesome game, after the first hour or so you stop getting grossed out by the extreme low res textures and just start playing. It does some things extremely well, and textures aren't everything. This is still a beautiful game, it's got mostly terrific animations and excellent lighting. And solid physics thrown in to spice things up. That stuff is mostly taken for granted in 2012 but there's not a lot of games that do all three as well as Rage.

Lighting up a mutant with an smg while he charges at you, watching him writhing in pain from the bullets but also twisting away from the impact while still running full speed at you, except now he's missed his mark (you) and has ran past you... Stuff like that happens flawlessly. It feels dynamic. Other games with animations this fluid typically get stuck in this "middle ground" where the animations don't flow into one another, where a character begins this exceptional animation but it cannot be interrupted, or if it is interrupted it's a jarring change. In Rage, it's all seamless and the animations are all top quality.

This game is good, technically it's incredible. It's a physics-lite, guns heavy, somewhat poor mans version of Half-Life 2, with racing thrown in. And that's not a bad place to be. It doesn't have the pacing of Half Life, but Rage is still fantastic. Blurry textures and all.

I really enjoyed playing Rage and was sad to complete the game. Some of the extra big monsters looked really impressive.

 

[wuliheron]

Any evidence/stats to back this up? Because I find this almost impossible to believe with SOOOOOOOO many teens playing games, not to mention the CoD generation right behind me, (I am 24).

Google it yourself. There's no doubt in my mind kids play more games and spend more hours playing games, but that isn't the issue. While the kids tend to play games on the console increasingly the adults are on the computer. They have the disposable income to buy PC gaming rigs, however, the latest Steam survey shows an increase in the number of people using integrated graphics and there is a huge untapped demand for cheap gaming capable tablets.

 

[wuliheron]

What are you on about?

Rage used a lot of unique textures but the actual quality of the textures per area was insanely low, no where near cinematic quality in fact the quality wasn't even respectable compared to other PC games. Most gamers pointed out the blurry mess that was the textures in this game and have pretty much demanded a high res texture pack ever since.

It's clever tech to be sure, but lets be fair, it's about squeezing the most out of old tech rather than making the most of new tech, while consoles remain the target platforms for development this will always be the case.

A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

Rage can play on something as wimpy as an iPhone because the lighting effects and whatnot are pre-baked right into the textures and streamed off the hard drive like a movie, but you don't need partially resident textures to do that. The whole point of using partially resident textures is to eventually be able to produce truly cinematic quality graphics with high resolution textures and, eventually, expand the system to incorporate ray cast geometry. However, to do that you will need hardware acceleration for the technology and several hundred gigabytes of hard drive space.

Doom 4 will be the first game to use the new hardware acceleration for the technology that allows it to slap all those extra textures on screen fast enough to play a game. At a guess you will need a radeon 7000 series video card with 3 or 4 gigabytes of vram to be able to produce significantly higher resolution textures. Most people will probably have to wait for the next generation consoles to come out.

 

[Childs]

I bet if I was to take a poll of all the online CoD, MMO, whateevr games that are actually played more than a few hours a week, I bet that age drops to the mid-early 20s.

I am not saying this survey's information isn't correct, I am saying that their survey isn't useful as it is too open to show any correlation to anything stated above, that was posted about age.

When you take into account Mafia Wars, Farmville, Angry Birds, Bejewelled, etc, this survey probably makes sense. Its hard to discount these types of games, because they do generate a lot of money. Competitive online games might skew younger, but there is a generation of gamers, myself included, that have been playing competitively since Doom using null modem cables.

 

[diesbudt]

When you talk into account Mafia Wars, Farmville, Angry Birds, Bejewelled, etc, this survey probably makes sense. Its hard to discount these types of games, because they do generate a lot of money. Competitive online games might skew younger, but there is a generation of gamers, myself included, that have been playing competitively since Doom using null modem cables.

Right, and I am not disputing the survey itself. I am just saying using that to back any claim as evidence is folly, since surveys are normally targeted to certain areas (in this case a few stores in the UK), and don't have well defined boundries.

Now if they would have surveyed a million or 2 people, across some of the bigger gaming contries (china/korea/Japan/US/Europe) while defining what they were getting at "gamer" wise (any game counts vs people playing a game for 3-4 horus a day, even solitare on the computer, which again would skew the age results Upwards even more) as in terms of hours or types of games. I bet you can change any 1 category in a survey like this (keeping the others constant) and get a totally different result.

The recall election for the governer of Wisconsin happened this year.

Exit polls after voting showed the current governs opposition would win by about 10%. This made the democrats in the state very confindent they had this election. The governer won the re-election by 4-5%. (15% difference then what was reported).

Because they just happened to have surveyed more people that were against the current governer than for him, or people lied. Surveys are not evidence or show any real correlation unless boundries are set. In which case this survey wasn't, it was too generic.

 

[Childs]

snip

Yeah, I dont disagree. If this was the console gaming forum, I'm sure the perception would be gamers are much younger. I think because of the history and money involved in PC gaming, the players tend to be older.

Anyways, while I think its safe to say id's best days are behind them, its hard to over criticize them now. Like saying Michael Jordan was a crap player because he wasnt all the special at the end of his career. A new id game used to be like New Years, Christmas, Black Friday, Independence Day and Memorial day all in one. Now they are games you have to think about at a 75% Steam sale. Kinda sad, but no reason to put the boots to them.

 

[PrincessFrosty]

Rage can play on something as wimpy as an iPhone because the lighting effects and whatnot are pre-baked right into the textures and streamed off the hard drive like a movie, but you don't need partially resident textures to do that.

Baking light info into textures (lightmaps) isn't anything new it's been done since the original quake engine, all the major engines support this. Engines like Unreal also run on mobile devices, so what? Again Megatexture is being used here to make the most out of limited hardware, it's taking crap hardware and allowing it to run average graphics.

For the PC which already has significantly more hardware resources the technology doesn't offer any benefits when used like this, all the visuals in Rage have been achieved in other games, and better, for years now. The driving reason for this kind of technology isn't to provide cinematic quality to PC gamers it's to allow id to take their games to the console space just like every other major engine developer has done in recent years.

Whether or not the technology actually scales to streaming in high definition textures rather than soupy low quality ones has yet to be seen. The simple fact is that hard drives are incredibly slow and a bad place to be streaming large amounts of texture data from, this is why we have dedicated video memory in the first place, I don't see this technology leading the way for actually improving the amount of texture data we see on screen at once, even with SSDs.

I suspect a better system would be to create large texture caches in system RAM and use a similar technology to megatexture to stream textures from there to vRAM, right now 16Gb of RAM is dirt cheap about £80 and could fit almost the entire Rage install into memory causing no need to stress the hard drive and no real upper limit on texture quality on screen. But of course...consoles don't have those kind of resources so it isn't going to happen.