Icelanders rebel, refuse to bail out distressed national banks to the tune of $6 bil

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
I should state that while I believe they're doing the right thing morally, they're probably doing the wrong thing in realistic terms - as badly as their bankers may have behaved, this is not the right time to display to the world the fact that your money isn't secure and safe in Iceland.

Another good point made in the article (one I haven't quoted below) is that the failures occurred at "the hands of inept politicians, bumbling regulators, a farcical central bank, abuse of deposit insurance and the adventurous world of currency traders," not at the behest of a free market/laissez-faire system. Like all scams, the Icelandic one was a timebomb, a plot derived from greed and ignorance.

The Iceland rebellion

In many countries, taxpayers are rightly cranky over the idea that their governments are bailing out banks and others -- including their own regulators and central bankers -- who helped create the 2008 global financial meltdown. Iceland appears to be setting a new standard of taxpayer response that politicians everywhere might want to note.

Under pressure from voters and taxpayers, Iceland's President, Olafur Ragnar Grimsson, this week refused to sign a bill to reimburse almost $6-billion to Britain and Holland for money paid to depositors who put money into two high-flying Icelandic banks that failed in 2008. The president was responding to taxpayers who are essentially rebelling against being forced to pick up the tab for a financial bailout of depositors, regulators, foreign governments and even their own government and politicians.

It is only a bit of an exaggeration to say that the people of Iceland are refusing to pay for all the schemes of private bankers and public officials who, over the course of the last decade, drove the whole of Iceland into bankruptcy.

...

The Iceland rebellion has been characterized as foolish. Fitch, the credit rating agency, warned of "a renewed wave of domestic political, economic and financial uncertainty" for Iceland and downgraded the country's main sovereign rating to junk status. Paul Rawkins, senior director in Fitch's Sovereign ratings team, told a news agency that the standoff "represents a significant setback to Iceland's efforts to restore normal financial relations with the rest of the world."

...

The immediate focus of the current Icelandic revolt tells much of the story. Icelanders are being asked to repay money that was deposited in Icelandic banks by mostly British and Dutch residents during a frenzy of fund-raising by Landesbanki, one of Iceland's hot-shot banks. In 2006, Iceland's financial condition began to deteriorate, risking a drain on bank funds and a currency run. Rogers Boyes, in his book, Meltdown Iceland, describes how "the Icelandic government ... needed the banks to appear more stable.

So a scheme was hatched to set up competitive online banking services that would lure cash from Britain, from the Dutch, and from Germans." The scheme, a brilliant marketing move, was called Icesave.

Icesave became a cash machine for Landesbanki. "The only thing I have to do is look each day and see how much money came in. Fifty million pounds came in, just last Friday," said Landesbanki CEO Sigurjon Arnason in 2006. Offering rates of up to 6%, within five months Icesave accounts attracted $10-billion in British deposits from 300,000 people -- equal to the entire population of Iceland. These deposits were marketed as if they carried deposit insurance from Iceland. Another Iceland bank also raised money using the same technique.

When the banks collapsed, however, there was no deposit insurance available. Deposit insurance is normally structured to cover the failure of some institutions by taking pooled money from the surviving institutions. But in a systemic failure, when all banks our essentially out of business, who pays the depositors?
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Good for them. I wish we hadn't of bailed out any of the companies we did here in the US. Yes yes you can tell me that it would of been worse etc etc. I would of been fine with that.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This is insane. If Iceland refuses to pay back the money advanced by Britain et al - the money its national banks lost - then it will likely be financially cut off from the rest of the world, especially the EU which took the hit for Iceland to save their own economies. Iceland has very little else to earn hard currency (3/4 of its exports are fish products) and consumes roughly a third more than it produces, which has been financed by the money brought in by its banks. If barred by the EU Iceland would be rendered Iran without oil. In other words, North Korea.

On the other hand, charging has worked pretty well for the USA . . .
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
I've been in Iceland a few times last year as a consultant to one of the teams evaluating the fall out of the financial mess there.

Due to NDAs, I am loathe to describe even anonymously the specifics that we found of the hubris that caused such sovereign risk and now likely financial balkanization. There are real lessons to be learned there for the U.S. and it would be well worth everyone understanding just how they got into such a fix.

I highly recommend a very good article published in Vanity Fair by Michael Lewis -

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904

And an illustration that succinctly captures the flow of events -

http://www.theatlantic.com/images/issues/200812/map-iceland.gif
 
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StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I should state that while I believe they're doing the right thing morally, they're probably doing the wrong thing in realistic terms - as badly as their bankers may have behaved, this is not the right time to display to the world the fact that your money isn't secure and safe in Iceland.
Actually, now is the best time and Will Hunting tells us why:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean fuckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...
Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."
Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.
Will: I used to go with the wrench.
Sean: Why?
Will: Cause fuck him, that' why.

I hope they do say screw it because they are putting their money where their mouth is and doing what many others want to do but perhaps are scared to do. They can show us what ends up happening.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Actually, now is the best time and Will Hunting tells us why:

Will: My father was an alcoholic. Mean fuckin' drunk. Used to come home hammered, looking to whale on someone. So I had to provoke him, so he wouldn't go after my mother and little brother. Interesting nights were when he wore his rings...
Will: He used to just put a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table and say, "Choose."
Sean: Well, I gotta go with the belt there.
Will: I used to go with the wrench.
Sean: Why?
Will: Cause fuck him, that' why.

I hope they do say screw it because they are putting their money where their mouth is and doing what many others want to do but perhaps are scared to do. They can show us what ends up happening.

Yeah, and you know what happened to him? He ended up dating Minnie Driver. Why would you wish such a horrible fate upon your own countrymen?
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
A government is not responsible for deposit insurance when they entire system fails.
Really? Because it is in the US. If all the banks disappear and the FDIC cannot cover things it's reasonable to expect the US government to do what it can to cover depositors. However, we know this. Those with significant money know this and trust it to be so. In Iceland's case perhaps people did not do their due diligence.

In any case can you really expect 220,000 tax payers of Iceland to pony up $27k/piece (!!!) covering the deposits of foreigners who were chasing high returns? I mean, from a practical standpoint, no you can't. It's no wonder Icelanders are telling the government to back out of this. They are between a rock and a hard place.

What would, say, Americans do in such a situation?
I think in this case with this kind of money (assuming 138M US tax payers in the US you're talking $4 Trillion) they would say screw you, too.
Why would you wish such a horrible fate upon your own countrymen?
Ugh, do not want.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,420
1,600
126
I've been in Iceland a few times last year as a consultant to one of the teams evaluating the fall out of the financial mess there.

Due to NDAs, I am loathe to describe even anonymously the specifics that we found of the hubris that caused such sovereign risk and now likely financial balkanization. There are real lessons to be learned there for the U.S. and it would be well worth everyone understanding just how they got into such a fix.

I highly recommend a very good article published in Vanity Fair by Michael Lewis -

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904

And an illustration that succinctly captures the flow of events -

http://www.theatlantic.com/images/issues/200812/map-iceland.gif

I read that entire article and it was great
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
This is insane. If Iceland refuses to pay back the money advanced by Britain et al - the money its national banks lost - then it will likely be financially cut off from the rest of the world, especially the EU which took the hit for Iceland to save their own economies. Iceland has very little else to earn hard currency (3/4 of its exports are fish products) and consumes roughly a third more than it produces, which has been financed by the money brought in by its banks. If barred by the EU Iceland would be rendered Iran without oil. In other words, North Korea.

On the other hand, charging has worked pretty well for the USA . . .

Bingo !!!

What's the over-under on recovery from a total collapse of a country's financial system?

A generation?





--
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
I read that entire article and it was great

I became a fan of Michael Lewis after "Liar's Poker: Rising Through the Wreckage on Wall Street."

He gets it as only someone who has put their time in on the Street can (and I would include London's City and Chicago in the panoply as well.)
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
"The stock market rose ninefold, or an average of 44% a year, from 2001 to 2007."

ahha Makes the rest of the West look like a pinnacle of conservatism. Greedy fvckers.
 

StinkyPinky

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2002
6,957
1,268
126
Bunch of greedy bastards. Most citizens knew what was going on and were happy to play along when Iceland was rolling in cash...now the shits hit the fan and they're all defaulting and refusing to pay back money legally owed to foreign states.

They're made themselves a pariah country. They wanted to join the EU in a couple of years...they're fucked now. The UK will use their influence to prevent that from happening.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
Most citizens knew what was going on and were happy to play along when Iceland was rolling in cash...now the shits hit the fan and they're all defaulting and refusing to pay back money legally owed to foreign states.

Mere attribution wrt what citizens "knew". They're fishermen, fer crissakes, which is a whole other kind of gamble... In america, we'd say they just fell off the turnip truck...

Setting them up as marks was very well done, and then shorting them into the dirt was extremely profitable, I'm sure...

Fat, dumb and happy until the rug got pulled out from under 'em...
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Politicians offices were flooded with calls and letters of "Do not bail them out". They still did it.
Same deal with the Hell-thcare bill.

We're not being represented, we're being RULED.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
Mere attribution wrt what citizens "knew". They're fishermen, fer crissakes, which is a whole other kind of gamble... In america, we'd say they just fell off the turnip truck...

Setting them up as marks was very well done, and then shorting them into the dirt was extremely profitable, I'm sure...

Fat, dumb and happy until the rug got pulled out from under 'em...

According to the CIA Factbook on Iceland, the literacy rate in Iceland is 99%, 92% of the population lives in urban areas, and most kids make it through at least 18 years of school. Not exactly statistics indicating a nation full of country bumpkins.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
According to the CIA Factbook on Iceland, the literacy rate in Iceland is 99%, 92% of the population lives in urban areas, and most kids make it through at least 18 years of school. Not exactly statistics indicating a nation full of country bumpkins.

That doesn't mean they have financial savvy, at all. If they were, they wouldn't have gone for total deregulation of banking. Much the same can be said wrt this country, too, except that we're less vulnerable on the downside of speculation- we're too big to fail. We can extort the ROTW the same way that bankers are extorting us- we'll take 'em down with us. Iceland, otoh, could be lifted up and then slapped down with barely a blip on the world's financial radar...

The moral of the story is to beware of deregulated free-market wheeler-dealer bankers bearing gifts. They're not in it for your benefit, but rather their own, and every trap needs some bait, after all...
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
According to the CIA Factbook on Iceland, the literacy rate in Iceland is 99%, 92% of the population lives in urban areas, and most kids make it through at least 18 years of school. Not exactly statistics indicating a nation full of country bumpkins.

Depending on what metrics you value, Iceland is one of the best countries in the world in which to live. Unfortunately for them their small size and high standard of living pretty much dooms them if they don't have their banking industry, as they have little remaining manufacturing and few exploited natural resources and are heavily dependent on fishing declining stocks (no pun intended.) Most of their recent prosperity is due to their banking industry and is not recoverable in any case, and their wise diversifying has been pretty much stopped cold (again, no pun intended) by the collapse of their biggest income stream, their banking. Had this collapsed a decade from now, Iceland would have weathered it much better. They are also remarkably anti-American, but certainly aren't bumpkins.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Depending on what metrics you value, Iceland is one of the best countries in the world in which to live. Unfortunately for them their small size and high standard of living pretty much dooms them if they don't have their banking industry, as they have little remaining manufacturing and few exploited natural resources and are heavily dependent on fishing declining stocks (no pun intended.) Most of their recent prosperity is due to their banking industry and is not recoverable in any case, and their wise diversifying has been pretty much stopped cold (again, no pun intended) by the collapse of their biggest income stream, their banking. Had this collapsed a decade from now, Iceland would have weathered it much better. They are also remarkably anti-American, but certainly aren't bumpkins.

I would hardly consider Iceland as "anti-American".

Maybe one of the Scandinavian states can annex them? or Canada can buy them out. LOL
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,547
9,779
136
Good for them. I wish we hadn't of bailed out any of the companies we did here in the US. Yes yes you can tell me that it would of been worse etc etc. I would of been fine with that.

By failing to let the leaves fall we'll have few green shoots with which to escape this economic winter.

In the long term Iceland is doing the proper thing. The thing we should do.
 

lothar

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2000
6,674
7
76
By failing to let the leaves fall we'll have few green shoots with which to escape this economic winter.

In the long term Iceland is doing the proper thing. The thing we should do.

How exactly are they doing the proper thing?
The country consumes more than it produces and is entirely reliant on foreign investment to fund it's debt. They are now rated "junk" status and could endup being like most of the countries on the African continent.

You think the US is bad regarding Chinese credit cards? Iceland is even worse.

This whole incident certainly won't lead to them being able to join the European union anytime soon.