ICD 7 Test Results

[petrusbroder]

I have updated my post (dated March 21, 2008) after 20 additional days. The temps are unchanged ...
I am very pleased with the compound - and I will purchase it when it comes to Sweden.
I do not have the time to run a pressure test. I wish I would - but for the next 6 weeks I have many lectures to teach ...

 

[ICD7]

petrusbroder- Thanks for taking the time to provide an update and participating in this study.

I am just as interested in long term results, 6mos, year etc. as well as initial. One plot I would like to put toghether is a comparison of short term vs long term use as nobody has done a long term study of reliability of TIM's under the kind of stresses you guys use.

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: ICD7
petrusbroder- Thanks for taking the time to provide an update and participating in this study.

I am just as interested in long term results, 6mos, year etc. as well as initial. One plot I would like to put toghether is a comparison of short term vs long term use as nobody has done a long term study of reliability of TIM's under the kind of stresses you guys use.

What kind of information / setup do you need for a long term study? I have at least one machine that won't be changed out for a good while.

 

[Assimilator1]

rabrittain
Your ambient temps rose a lot with a loaded CPU!:Q, is it in a very small room or did you actually mean case temps?
Ambient temp is supposed to mean room temps.

ICD7
Once I've finished the current TIM tests & then the film test I will probably leave the installation untouched for months on my main rig, maybe even a few years if the TIM shows no signs of degredation (my 2nd rig will probably be upgraded during that time).
I guess the only problem then is will this thread still be here?, however I'm sure I'll be able to report long term temps to you as long as I remember!

Btw I'm about to test ICD7 on my 2nd rig & try the ICD7 app method for AS5 on my main rig.

 

[Insidious]

Your ambient temps rose a lot with a loaded CPU!, is it in a very small room or did you actually mean case temps?
Ambient temp is supposed to mean room temps.

I believe That is the internal air temperature of his case.

Btw I'm about to test ICD7 on my 2nd rig & try the ICD7 app method for AS5 on my main rig.

You'll be wasting A LOT of your AS5. The extremely different viscosity of these two TIMs is what leads to the different application methods. Your AS5 application will pump like mad and not be as effective if you don't apply only a VERY thin, even layer.

ymmv

-Sid

 

[Assimilator1]

I think that maybe my original appilcation of AS5 on my Q6600 may of been insufficient & the ICD7 app method gives good coverage.I'll let you know if much was wasted.
I just hope I have enough to run this test as the syringe is near its end.[edit] yes I did

Btw in doing all this I've noticed how much dust has built up on my HSFs!:Q ,I didn't think it had been that long since I'd last cleaned them.
The annoying thing is is that I've had to fight off the urge to clean them to keep test results even, also making sure that I disturb the dust as little as possible on R&R'ing them lol

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

Originally posted by: Assimilator1
I guess the only problem then is will this thread still be here?, however I'm sure I'll be able to report long term temps to you as long as I remember!

Looks like I'll have some mod work to do--merging the new threads into this one.

 

[Assimilator1]

Completed tests on my 2nd rig & I've updated tests on my main rig.

Sid
Putting more AS5 on did help drop temps (temp spread between cores reduced by about 3C), though not quite as good as ICD7.
The ICD7 was about 2-3C better than the AS5.:thumbsup:

 

[Philippart]

Originally posted by: ICD7

Originally posted by: Philippart
CPU: Intel Core2Duo E6600@2.88GHz@stock vcore
Room temperature: 18.5°C (during all the tests)
Cooler: stock Intel (with some factory scratchs on the copper bottom<--came in the package with these scratches )
Test 1: stock thermal pad, installed in May 2007: CPU: 58°C Core1: 56°C Core2: 56°C ; temperature difference between room and cpu: 39.5°C
Test 2: ICD7, installed 3 days ago: CPU: 60°C Core1: 57°C Core2:57°C ; temperature difference between room and cpu: 41.5°C

I suspect that the paste, only applied in the centre of the CPU, has a hard time with the scratches...

Should be some better than the stock thermal pad. Stock or OEM type sinks are a giving me a problem due to a light pressure loading (IMHO as in narzy's results are similar with similar stock sink). Let it sit for another week and see if it "cures" to a thinner bond line with some continued heat/pressure and some thermal cycling.

Anybody have other suggestions?

The temperatures haven't changed... I tested it on another computer a week ago:
AMD Athlon X2 4600+ (110W@stock(2.4GHz)) @2.6GHz with Freezer 64 Pro
with Thermalright paste: CPU: 64/65°C Core1: 79°C/80°C Core2: 73°C/74°C <-- time for new paste after +/- 2years of almost non-stop crunching and heat
with ICD7 paste: CPU: 60°C Core1: 70°C Core2: 69°C <-- nice improvement!

Now I see what you mean by more pressure from non stock coolers

 

[Assimilator1]

My god that was running hot!!:shocked:, it's not supposed to run that hot you know?

 

[Philippart]

haha yes, but 70°C is the very limit. I cared more about a silent cruncher than a cool cruncher and the paste was bad from the beginning.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: Philippart
haha yes, but 70°C is the very limit. I cared more about a silent cruncher than a cool cruncher and the paste was bad from the beginning.

but do u care about your CPU? they're not supposed run above 70C or so (maybe lower for athlons)

 

[Philippart]

wow, the cpu-labour-union is defending the cpu rights haha

To be honest: I was really shocked about those temperatures, when I installed it and last checked the system 2 years ago the load temps were 58/59°C. It is still 10°C too high, I have to check what's wrong with it.

 

[Assimilator1]

:laugh:

And yea either a mounting problem or poor case airflow, fans ok?

 

[petrusbroder]

What program are you using to monitor the temps?
Some of them give really wrong results: e.g. CoreTemp claims that my AMD-64 X2s run at a lower temp then room temp.
OTOH: some other programs I have used in the past gave readings which were way to high @ idle: 89 - 90ºC on a AMD XP.

 

[Philippart]

Airflow is ok, i use everest to read the temps.

The copper bottom of the cooler didn't look shiny, but I suspect that my Vcore went up for whatever reason... I need to check that.

 

[ICD7]

Great stuff and thanks for the great work you guys are doing.

I have been traveling for the last few days and just got back tonight. I will start tomorrow figuring what's what with the pressure film. I will spend some time talking to the company rep to make sure we are on the right track in how we apply it.

I got a chance to try it once before I left and it left me with a lot to think about. The film comes in two sheets, a loaded one and a negative "print" sheet.

There were definite high points which were clearly defined, the lows were fairly broad across the test strip which makes me think that doing the test with the compound in place may provide a more even distribution in pressure.

So a probable method would be to apply the paste then place a loaded strip on the paste with the print strip then mount the sink side so it remains "clean".

It may take some doing to get a good reading. For instance if you torque from one side then the other you may get an uneven pressure distribution. Might need a second person to hold the sink to prevent that from happening. We will have to think of a good way to do this.

The comparison chart of the raw data is a little subjective and I think the best way to do this is to send you guys a sample envelope where maybe it is numbered so we can trace it to person/system and then put that envelope in a self addressed envelope back to me and we go with the full boat color digital analysis along with excel files for everybody.

Temperature has to be noted along with Humidity - Maybe logging on to your local weather report and taking the humidity reading there would be sufficient?

I believe I have enough for everybody to run several tests and then submit what they think are their best samples. Anybody else have any ideas?

Thanks again

Andrew

 

[ICD7]

this is the Anandtech list of pressure film testers. If I have missed anybody let me know.

Insidious
Fullmetal Chocobo
Cutthroat
Assimilator1

I had my Telecon with the pressure film rep.

He Recommends the test be done dry, basically what we are looking for are mechanical inconsistencies and by filling in the voids it tends to obscure the contact issues.

Relative humidity is not a problem and can be ignored for our tests.

Room temperature should be noted.

CPU should be room temp

A careful clamping sequence should be adequate.

10 - 15 min exposure for the film should work fine - Once you reach max exposure/pressure the film stops further rupturing of the color nodules. as long as exposure is not more than 24hours nothing else has to be noted

Question. IHS sample cut size, I am looking at around 1.2 inches square per sample or maybe 1.5 in. to make it easier to get a full print. I do not want to go too much larger as I would like to send as many test samples as I can to each participant. Will 1.5 Inch square do it for you guys?

We will do the full color mapping analysis on each one. It will take me a day or so to get organized on mailing,tracking results method so samples will probably go out Friday.

Added what we will get from the analysis

With the Topaq® Advanced Pressure Analysis
System, statistical data and detailed digital
visuals can be extracted from Pressurex®
pressure indicating sensor films.
Topaq® enables a wealth of statistical information and high
resolution visuals to be extracted from Pressurex® - greatly
enhancing the ability of the sensor film to define pressure
distribution and magnitude. Vital statistics like total force,
average pressure, total square inches of contact and standard
deviation can be determined with ±4% accuracy using
Topaq®?s advanced analysis capabilities. Topaq® can also
render histogramic and population statistics on
user-defined regions of interest.
Features
? 2D pseudocolor display of pressure distribution
? 3D topographical view
? Graphical display of pressure data
? Graphical view of data along a user-defined line
? Detailed pressure statistics

I have a total of 27 from Anandtech, hardwarelogic, overclockers.com and xtremesystems with the multiples probably hit 50 to 60 covering a full range of systems, coolers. A pretty good sample in my book.

I'll do a scan of the raw result noting the sink and setup before I send it out for a comparison to the pressure mapped analysis

 

[Insidious]

Are you sending some thermal goop (to replace what I clean off for the test) with it or do I need to order some on my own? (I'll do the test for you either way)

-Sid

 

[ICD7]

I was planning on sending more paste to all the pressure film testers so yeah yo will get a couple of tubes for your trouble and I will include a self addressed envelope to mail back results

 

[Cutthroat]

Sounds good ICD7. I'm waiting on lapping my TRUE until after I've done the test, I'd like to do the test both before and after lapping to see the comparison so I would need 2 pieces, 1.5" would be fine, or since I'm only using it on a CPU if it's slightly larger than the IHS that's all I need.

BTW, I have some results, I might as well post what I have so far.

Mobo: Asus P5K Deluxe
CPU: Q9450 @ 3560MHz (8x445)
HSF: TRUE + 2xNoctua NF-P12 fans in a push/pull config.
Lapped: No

Method of application was the same for both TIM's, I used a pea sized drop in the center of the CPU and applied the heat sink with a slight twisting motion. I removed the HSF after each application to check the coverage and it was perfect for both.

All temps are taken with Everest in Celcius, and I'm careful to take all the temp readings while the ambient temperature was 27C. Temps were taken while Running FAH 100% and idle temps were taken 5 minutes after shutting off FAH so the fans were still running at 100%.

Shin-Etsu X23 - Idle/no curing

Mobo: 37
CPU: 41
Core#1: 56
Core#2: 56
Core#3: 54
Core#4: 52

ICD7 - Idle/no curing

Mobo: 39
CPU: 42
Core#1: 57
Core#2: 57
Core#3: 56
Core#4: 53


Shin-Etsu X23 - FAH100%/no curing

Mobo: 39
CPU: 60
Core#1: 71
Core#2: 69
Core#3: 70
Core#4: 68

ICD7 - FAH100%/no curing

Mobo: 42
CPU: 60
Core#1: 72
Core#2: 70
Core#3: 70
Core#4: 69

So after the initial application with little cure time there was very little difference between Shin-Etsu and ICD7, but Shin-Etsu has the edge by about 1C. But the following results redeem ICD7...

Shin-Etsu X23 - Idle/Cured 6 days

Mobo: 37
CPU: 41
Core#1: 56
Core#2: 56
Core#3: 54
Core#4: 52

ICD7 - Idle/Cured 1 days

Mobo: 38
CPU: 42
Core#1: 56
Core#2: 56
Core#3: 54
Core#4: 53

ICD7 - Idle/Cured 6 days

Mobo: 38
CPU: 40
Core#1: 54
Core#2: 54
Core#3: 52
Core#4: 52


Shin-Etsu X23 - FAH100%/Cured 6 days

Mobo: 40
CPU: 60
Core#1: 71
Core#2: 69
Core#3: 69
Core#4: 68

ICD7 - FAH100%/Cured 1 days

Mobo: 41
CPU: 59
Core#1: 70
Core#2: 69
Core#3: 69
Core#4: 68

ICD7 - FAH100%/Cured 6 days

Mobo: 41
CPU: 56
Core#1: 68
Core#2: 66
Core#3: 66
Core#4: 65

Summary: After 6 days of curing the Shin-Etsu X23 showed no improvement at all, I actually got almost exactly the same temp readings, that was not a typo. While the ICD7 improved quite a bit after curing, an average of 3-4 degrees Celcius, very impressive.

I'll be performing the same tests after I lap my CPU and TRUE and do the pressure tests, look forward to them in a few weeks.

 

[ICD7]

I am trying to consolidate results here so I went through the post results and this is what I came up with so far. I am only looking at the load temps. Some were averaged, some were interpolated. I am looking for corrections understated/overstated, missed or double entry. please review when you get a chance and suggest changes where differences occur. Thanks

Markfw900 -8
covert24 -3.5
narzy 1
Fardringle -2
Fardringle -11
Insidious 0
alfa147x -2
Uppsala9496 -4
Uppsala9496 -5
biodoc -2
biodoc -4.5
LOUISSSSS 2
RobertE -2.5
petrusbroder -4
SecretAsianMan -3
Philippart 1
legoman666 -2
Assimilator1 1.5
tuksonrider -3
Fullmetal Chocobo 1
Assimilator1 -1.5
rabrittain -5
Cutthroat -3.5

 

[petrusbroder]

I see no problems with my data.

 

[Assimilator1]

I've just done an update on my 2nd rigs results ,looks like curing has helped the ICD7 with temps lowering by about additional 2C.

I'd say the temp drop on my 2nd rig whilst running DPAD with ICD7 is now 4C (was 2C before todays update, using just DPAD temps anyway), but take a look at the updated figures yourself.:thumbsup:

As for my main rig, did you miss out the '-' symbol? as I did get a decrease in temps using ICD7 not an increase
Going by the last figures in my post about my main rig (with DPAD) I get an averaged decrease in CPU temps of 1.75C across all 4 cores.

 

[ICD7]

For those getting the pressure film next week and want to get an Idea what a raw data test looks like.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/f...d.php?t=182778&page=10