i7 or wait for new sockets?

[Fallen Kell]

I'm at the point where I know I need to upgrade the processor on my HTPC (it just can't handle HD as well as I need it to at this point) and it is due to the CPU. I don't mind waiting for the new socket if it is in fact coming out this year, but I wanted to get the opinion of you guys since I have not been following the CPU's as much lately.

I typically purchase a motherboard expecting to be able to upgrade the processor at least once 1-2 years later (just to give your guys an idea of how I like to operate and how long I expect something to stay a viable product path),

Currently my HTPC is a Gigabyte X48-DQ6, E6600 @ 3.0GHz, 4GB DDR2, Powercolor HD5750 SCS3, 2x750GB Seagate 7200.11, 2x2TB WD Green, and Hauppauge HD-PVR. I replaced the video card in January and added the 2x2TB disks at the same time (replacing 2x500GB). I also started really using the blu-ray/hd-dvd that I have in it as well as ripping more of my DVD's and Blu-ray's to the hard drives (now that I had space for more of them).

 

[Chubblez]

How much HD are you pushing through it? I hvae a Penryn 2.4 w/ 4G RAM, and a 9600GT running blu ray, and 2 cable cards, w/o any issues at all.

What is your CPU load like?

 

[Insomniator]

A core 2 at 3.0 can't handle HD content...?

 

[Fallen Kell]

CPU load in in the 80-100% range when watching video. This is mostly due to my ffdshow config. I have trimmed it down to this, but video quality is suffering pretty badly. This CPU and ffdshow settings where fine when I was only capturing at 640x480, but the bump to HD is too much for the processor to handle my processing settings.

 

[jtisgeek]

something is wrong no way it using that much I play most of my mkv rips with a 3.8 P4.
Am never saw a duel core have any problems.

ffdshow may be the problem right there bad in windows.

Ati video isn't great on helping out either nvidia is kinda in the htpc field support is much better.

Watch the for sale section maybe pick up a cheap quad hard to recommend a new i7. But hey that's up to you cost wise I7 setup will be a very nice upgrade but it's wasteful for what your doing.

 

[TheRyuu]

Just some input about ffdshow.

I doubt it's the decoding speed that's slowing you down (you're talking more about filters I gather). Since you're using ffdshow I gather you have your video decoder set to ffmpeg-mt (or libav). To free up some cpu cycles you could try switching to the free divx h264 decoder (and have ffdshow accept "raw input" so you could still use your filters).

Not sure if dxva would be an applicable option since you want to use the ffdshow filters but that'd be another thing to look at to free up some cpu cycles (all gpu decoding is broken in some way though so ymmv).

If you're using ffdshow to denoise your video you could look into using avisynth + the fft3dgpu plugin to offload the denoising aspect of it to the gpu. Can be used with both ati and nvidia cards (uses dx9). My 5870 can pull about 60fps (48 with slow(er) settings although not affecting quality much, settings I'm talking about are single precision/double precision floating point math) on 1080p so you should be able to get real time speeds with that 5750.
See: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=89941

Just make sure you give avisynth the nessasary front/back buffer depending on what bt value you set for fft3dgpu (default is 1, i'd say the most common is bt=3, see fft3dgpu documentation for explination, for bt=3 the back/front buffer would be 1 each although if you hit that "autodetect" thing I think it'll give the front 2.

Yet another way to improve your performance is to make sure you're using the ICL compiled builds of ffdshow. While the decoders themselves are compiled in a mingw gcc environment all the filters within ffdshow will be compiled with ICL which can give you a speed gain.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ffdshow-tryout/files/SVN%20builds by clsid/icl10 builds

Good luck! Any questions let me know.

Edit:
For some reason I thought you were on a quad core. Seeing now that you're on a dual core E6600 going with the divx h264 decoder is looks like an even more attractive option. The goal here is to free up as many cpu cycles for your filters which you want (don't see how you really 'need' them with BD content but I have seen some BD which look like crap). Same with offloading denoising to the gpu, will free up some cpu cycles for ya.

Beyond that I can't think of anything else off the top of my head other than getting something faster than that E6600 (quad core something). i7 or that new 6 core AMD look like attractive options for an upgrade.

 

[Attic]

E6600@3ghz with a 5750 is plenty for HD content. I'd suggest looking to other options/tweaks for playing back your HD content. FFDShow screwed my CPU usage for h264 material, I use MPC-HD with matroska splitter. Help here http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

Are mkv's giving issue? Blu-Rays are playing back high CPU load?

AMD cards are the best solution for HTPC's, so the 5750 was a great purchase. You can use DirectX Video Accleration (DXVA) for mkv and other HD playback and it will allow 1080P material to be offloaded to the GPU and you shouldn't see more than 5-10%CPU usage Max.

 

[TheRyuu]

E6600@3ghz with a 5750 is plenty for HD content. I'd suggest looking to other options/tweaks for playing back your HD content. FFDShow screwed my CPU usage for h264 material, I use MPC-HD with matroska splitter. Help here http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

Are mkv's giving issue? Blu-Rays are playing back high CPU load?

AMD cards are the best solution for HTPC's, so the 5750 was a great purchase. You can use DirectX Video Accleration (DXVA) for mkv and other HD playback and it will allow 1080P material to be offloaded to the GPU and you shouldn't see more than 5-10%CPU usage Max.

I don't think it's so much the decoding but the extra filtering he's doing. An E6600 is obviously plenty given a threaded decoder (ffmpeg-mt/divx). It's the added filtering which is causing him to think of an upgrade I believe.

 

[Attic]

I don't think it's so much the decoding but the extra filtering he's doing. An E6600 is obviously plenty given a threaded decoder (ffmpeg-mt/divx). It's the added filtering which is causing him to think of an upgrade I believe.

ah yes, that makes sense, the filtering can really be hard on CPU.

 

[Fallen Kell]

BD playback is fine, it is the filters on my 1080i captures that it can't handle. Specifically, it can just barely do an acceptable de-interlace, and that is it. I'll look into the fft3dgpu plugin to see what it can do for me. Filters on 1920x1080 content just kills the CPU.

I tend to agree with everyone that the ATI cards are crap for doing media/video anything, but until Nvidia gets bit-streaming HD audio, they are simply the only choice (cost/performance, since I would need a $250 Nvidia graphics card and a $200 audio card to get what the $250 ATI does).

 

[TheRyuu]

BD playback is fine, it is the filters on my 1080i captures that it can't handle. Specifically, it can just barely do an acceptable de-interlace, and that is it. I'll look into the fft3dgpu plugin to see what it can do for me. Filters on 1920x1080 content just kills the CPU.

I tend to agree with everyone that the ATI cards are crap for doing media/video anything, but until Nvidia gets bit-streaming HD audio, they are simply the only choice (cost/performance, since I would need a $250 Nvidia graphics card and a $200 audio card to get what the $250 ATI does).

What specifically are you doing in ffdshow (like what filters, etc..)?

 

[aigomorla]

A core 2 at 3.0 can't handle HD content...?

core 2 @ 2.0 should handle full 1080p playback.

An Atom can handle HD if it has a dedicated GPU and u use a dedicated software for hardware acceleration

If your shuttering on a c2d @ 3.0, its most likely your lan connection streaming, or your hard drive is about to give.

I tend to agree with everyone that the ATI cards are crap for doing media/video anything, but until Nvidia gets bit-streaming HD audio, they are simply the only choice (cost/performance, since I would need a $250 Nvidia graphics card and a $200 audio card to get what the $250 ATI does).

??? lost...

Why do you need a 250 dollar nvidia card and a 200 dollar audio card for a 250 dollar ati card?
Wait.. is this for movies or games?

With a C2D @ 3.0 u can run any HD content on it with a IGP even.

I am using a GT 220, with a onboard HDMI output. I am using the HDMI port on my stereo, and the video goes out to my TV.
This video card only costed me 49 dollars and is doing exactly what your 250 dollar ATI card does when it comes to movies.
(this is on my W3580 HTPC)

On my Parents HTPC, Well its running IGP perfectly fine.
Its a C2Q @ 3.0ghz undervolted... QX9650, WITH ONBOARD VIDEO... well its a 9200 geforce based nvidia board.

So why do you need a 450 dollar video package just to stream HD?
That makes no sense.

 

[lopri]

core 2 @ 2.0 should handle full 1080p playback.

Incorrect
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2132/4

An Atom can handle HD if it has a dedicated GPU and u use a dedicated software for hardware acceleration

Correct

Edit: I am not saying C2D @2.0 GHz can't handle 1080p. As a matter of fact it does for the most part. It's beause, compared to years ago, codecs have improved in efficiency and today's GPU will off-load at least some part of decoding whether users are aware or not.

 

[Attic]

what are you guys using as media players? any good guides for HD content playback, codec info?

 

[aigomorla]

Incorrect
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2132/4


Correct

Edit: I am not saying C2D @2.0 GHz can't handle 1080p. As a matter of fact it does for the most part. It's beause, compared to years ago, codecs have improved in efficiency and today's GPU will off-load at least some part of decoding whether users are aware or not.

wow i stand corrected.... thanks for the link Lopri.

 

[Fallen Kell]

??? lost...

Why do you need a 250 dollar nvidia card and a 200 dollar audio card for a 250 dollar ati card?
Wait.. is this for movies or games?

With a C2D @ 3.0 u can run any HD content on it with a IGP even.

I am using a GT 220, with a onboard HDMI output. I am using the HDMI port on my stereo, and the video goes out to my TV.
This video card only costed me 49 dollars and is doing exactly what your 250 dollar ATI card does when it comes to movies.
(this is on my W3580 HTPC)

You can not bit-streaming of DTS-MA or DD TrueHD with an Nvidia card since HDMI v1.3 or greater is required, and the Nvidia cards are only v1.2. The only audio card which supports DTS-MA and DD TrueHD bit-streaming is the Asus Xonar HDAV1.3 Delux, which is (you got it) $200. So, as I said, the only way the Nvidia graphics card will give me DTS-MA and DD TrueHD bitstreams require the use of a $200 audio card. The ATI cards have it built in, no need for that extra $200 for that, and that feature really is a requirement for my HTPC (and is for pretty much anyone who has higher end theatre setups with receivers/pre-processors to handle audio and wants to it for blu-ray or HD-DVD). Your $49 video card does not do what my $250 ATI is doing, as it is probably only doing stereo audio, or down-sampled 5.1 PCM , not 7.1 bit-streaming DTS-MA with the full 192KHz audio signal spectrum. That is like comparing a Sony Walkman Tape player to a CD player in terms of quality difference, not even in the same league.

As for what filters I have active on ffdshow, right now, de-interlace and simple denoise. I can't do anything more complex because it simply is too compute intensive. I can't even do the de-interlace that I want to do because it is too compute intensive on 1920x1080 content and I have yet to get the ATI card to offload the de-interlace, so that might be part of my issues. (Anyone know how to get offload the de-interlace to the video card BEFORE any other filters are run in ffdshow, or a plugin deinterlacer which offloads to the GPU)

 

[TheRyuu]

As for what filters I have active on ffdshow, right now, de-interlace and simple denoise. I can't do anything more complex because it simply is too compute intensive. I can't even do the de-interlace that I want to do because it is too compute intensive on 1920x1080 content and I have yet to get the ATI card to offload the de-interlace, so that might be part of my issues. (Anyone know how to get offload the de-interlace to the video card BEFORE any other filters are run in ffdshow, or a plugin deinterlacer which offloads to the GPU)

Well if you're using dxva accelerated decoding and that deinterlace option is set to auto in the ati control panel you should be getting hardware accelerated deinterlacing. Just make sure you're using evr rendering in mpc (media player classic) so dxva works..

Not sure if you can use the ffdshow filters though with dxva.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Well if you're using dxva accelerated decoding and that deinterlace option is set to auto in the ati control panel you should be getting hardware accelerated deinterlacing. Just make sure you're using evr rendering in mpc (media player classic) so dxva works..

Not sure if you can use the ffdshow filters though with dxva.

Someone posted over on AVSForums a howto on ffdshow+ATI hardware deinterlace just a few hours ago. I havn't had a chance to try it yet, but will do so this weekend. I always had issues with that method if any upscaling was involved since it would upscale the interlaced frames and propagate the "combing" that is inherent in the interlaced frame since the deinterlace happens after the upscale when you use hardware deinterlace on the ATI.

In anycase, is there a timeline for when the new sockets are due out?

 

[Vette73]

Maybe late this year but most likly new chips/sockets will be early next year at best.

Why not upgrade to a Quad. I am sure there are some cheap one for sale in the F/S forum. Give you more power without replacing the entire system.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I might swap the CPU from my main rig to the HTPC then (I have a Q9450). That will hurt my gaming rig a bit, but the HTPC seems to need it more.

 

[ZimZum]

As for what filters I have active on ffdshow, right now, de-interlace and simple denoise. I can't do anything more complex because it simply is too compute intensive.

[HTPC newb] What image quality benefits do you gain from these? [/HTPC newb]

 

[taltamir]

OP, are you using the ancient and dead FFDShow, or the FFDShow Tryouts... the project that succeeded FFDShow after the original has its last exe release on 2004 and the last source code modification in may 2006. FFDShow Tryouts took that source code and ran with it as a new project, done by www.doom9.org

you can find it here:
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/

As for the guy asking about deinterlacing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinterlacing

 

[bigpow]

unless you're going to a QuadHD, I don't really get why you'd go with ffdshow pp

a $12.95 coreavc WILL allow smooth 1080p playback on a P4 2.6G

 

[TheRyuu]

unless you're going to a QuadHD, I don't really get why you'd go with ffdshow pp

a $12.95 coreavc WILL allow smooth 1080p playback on a P4 2.6G

People seem to be misunderstanding the OP's problem here (at least to the point that I under stand it )

This is not a question of smooth 1080p playback, it's a question of the EXTRA stuff he does with ffdshow post processing.

@ZimZum
See http://mod16.org/hurfdurf/?p=12 for (some) explanation on interlacing.

 

[taltamir]

People seem to be misunderstanding the OP's problem here (at least to the point that I under stand it )

This is not a question of smooth 1080p playback, it's a question of the EXTRA stuff he does with ffdshow post processing.

yes, the OP seems to be using some extravagant post processing, which is too much for his processor to handle in HD.
A CPU upgrade will work well here...

as far as waiting goes... beats me. Should be half a year or so until next batch of processors arrive.