Question i7 7700k to i7 12700k worth it ?

[pcslookout]

Mainly for gaming but maybe some Virtual Machines too.


Edit: Thanks everyone got one for $200 brand new!

 

[ondma]

How much faster is a 12700K in single thread compared to a 7700K? Considering you can overclock a 7700K to 4.8-5.0 without too much difficulty, so the 7700K can essentially wipe out the clock speed deficit, which brings things down to IPC improvements from Skylake to Alder Lake.

Are we talking about a 20-25% IPC improvement? Or am I severely underestimating the 12700K here?

More like 35 to 40 percent IPC improvement I believe. Rocket Lake was a substantial IPC improvement (despite it not carrying over to gaming) and AL adds further to that.
That is in productivity benchmarks. I doubt the "gaming IPC" increase is close to that. Dont forget though, that 12700k adds more cores as well as IPC improvements.

 

[ondma]

With all due respect, a 7700K is a lot more relevant to modern gaming (at acceptable frame rates) than an i5 2300, which lacks clockspeed AND threads (plus IPC). I do see your point, and I'm sure you would have seen a huge difference from your own upgrade. I just don't think you can really compare the 2 because, generally speaking, a low clocked 4C/4T CPU would struggle to maintain 60fps in any moderately CPU intensive game, whereas I'm sure a 7700K is still more than capable of that feat. It just won't hit those blazing high fps like current gen CPUs, but again it all boils down to what GPU you pair it with, and whether the game is more CPU or GPU bound.

I'm not familiar with the game that the OP plays, but i would only suggest upgrading to a 12700K if he is severely CPU bottlenecked on a 7700K.

Generally speaking, a highly clocked 4C/8T CPU like a 7700K can generally still keep up with a 2060 class GPU in all but the most CPU bound titles.

Well, I *did* say the upgrade would depend of whether the OP was seeing problems with gameplay in the titles he is playing. Personally I think six cores (especially with the architectural improvement of Zen 3 and AL) is probably still the sweet spot for midrange gaming.

 

[epsilon84]

More like 35 to 40 percent IPC improvement I believe. Rocket Lake was a substantial IPC improvement (despite it not carrying over to gaming) and AL adds further to that.
That is in productivity benchmarks. I doubt the "gaming IPC" increase is close to that. Dont forget though, that 12700k adds more cores as well as IPC improvements.

Actually those IPC improvements do carry across to gaming it seems, I did a bit of research about ADL 'gaming IPC' and came across this:
https://www.techspot.com/review/2374-intel-alder-lake-architecture/

When running at the same core count (so 4C/8T) the 7700K gets 99 min / 147 avg compared to the 12700K's 145 min / 195 avg. So we are looking at 46% / 33% gains in min / avg fps respectively! More than I thought actually, though my original point still stands with regards to the 2060 Super being potentially a bottleneck. I would only upgrade if the OP feels he is very CPU limited at this point, otherwise wait and see what Zen 3D brings to gaming, it could very well topple ADL for gaming and on a cheaper platform as well.

 

[OlyAR15]

Actually those IPC improvements do carry across to gaming it seems, I did a bit of research about ADL 'gaming IPC' and came across this:
https://www.techspot.com/review/2374-intel-alder-lake-architecture/

When running at the same core count (so 4C/8T) the 7700K gets 99 min / 147 avg compared to the 12700K's 145 min / 195 avg.

But that is with a 6900XT GPU @1080p. With a 2060 Super, it will be a bottleneck for a lot of games. However, it will give some headroom if/when the OP upgrades the video card.

 

[pcslookout]

But that is with a 6900XT GPU @1080p. With a 2060 Super, it will be a bottleneck for a lot of games. However, it will give some headroom if/when the OP upgrades the video card.

Does it make a difference if I play at 2560x1440 instead ?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Does it make a difference if I play at 2560x1440 instead ?

Some of the responses make me curious if they read the thread before responding. For sims like Planet Coaster, you need all the CPU you can get. 12th gen is the best there is for sims like that, with Zen 3 right behind. Either are a good choice.

Some of us have advised you to go ahead and pull the trigger; do it or don't. It won't keep me up tonight. But don't get confused. For the 2 things you explicitly stated - VMs and Planet Coaster, you will be very stoked with the upgrade.

 

[epsilon84]

Some of the responses make me curious if they read the thread before responding. For sims like Planet Coaster, you need all the CPU you can get. 12th gen is the best there is for sims like that, with Zen 3 right behind. Either are a good choice.

Some of us have advised you to go ahead and pull the trigger; do it or don't. It won't keep me up tonight. But don't get confused. For the 2 things you explicitly stated - VMs and Planet Coaster, you will be very stoked with the upgrade.

Planet coaster seems to like IPC more than actual threads. Or am I missing something? The extra cores/threads of the 2700X does nothing to help the lows/mins compared to the 8700K... which is... the same core as the 7700K basically.

If the game is strictly bound by single thread performance, then the gains from a 7700K to 12700K would be ~40% at best (if the game is 100% CPU bound, even with a 2060S at 1440P, which many here seem to think is the case), which is decent, don't get me wrong, but I doubt there would be a doubling in performance like in productivity apps.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Planet coaster seems to like IPC more than actual threads. Or am I missing something? The extra cores/threads of the 2700X does nothing to help the lows/mins compared to the 8700K... which is... the same core as the 7700K basically.

If the game is strictly bound by single thread performance, then the gains from a 7700K to 12700K would be ~40% at best (if the game is 100% CPU bound, even with a 2060S at 1440P, which many here seem to think is the case), which is decent, don't get me wrong, but I doubt there would be a doubling in performance like in productivity apps.

Did you watch the vid I linked? More than double the performance is exactly what the guy experienced going from a 7700K to 5900X. And that bar graph is not useful for late game. There is no way any of those CPUs are getting anywhere close to those numbers in the parks that yt guy built. They would all be literally single digit and teens.

 

[epsilon84]

Happy to stand corrected if that late game is that intensive! So the game *does* take advantage of the extra cores then? Seems like the only way for a 5900X to double the fps of a 7700K.

 

[Ranulf]

Ryzen 3 3300X Vs. i7-7700K (5.0GHz) | RTX 3080 and RTX 2060 Super | 30 Games Benchmarks - iPhone Wired

View attachment 54309

Getting beaten by the Ryzen 3300X is sad. He should upgrade based on just this one chart.

More like proof that buying anything other than an i7 model was pointless until the r5 3600 or i5-10600 aka 6c/12t mid tier cpus. You're looking at a low end cpu released 3 years after the 7700k.

 

[pcslookout]

Thanks everyone for the help! My goal is to get minimum 30 fps in Planet Coaster in the most demanding park with park visitors too if possible. I think this upgrade will do it sense right now I only get 15 to 18 fps minimum.

Do not think that is to much to ask for. If I get more than 30 fps minimum then that is a nice bonus!

 

[coercitiv]

So the game *does* take advantage of the extra cores then? Seems like the only way for a 5900X to double the fps of a 7700K.

It can be a combo of factors, like the massive L3 cache increase and/or the Nvidia driver overhead (which likes more cores).

 

[tamz_msc]

It can be a combo of factors, like the massive L3 cache increase and/or the Nvidia driver overhead (which likes more cores).

Planet Coaster is a DX11 game.

 

[coercitiv]

Planet Coaster is a DX11 game.

And...? The same driver overhead applies, with the exception that under DX11 there's no getting away from it by using an AMD card, since the AMD DX11 driver is even worse.

 

[tamz_msc]

And...? The same driver overhead applies, with the exception that under DX11 there's no getting away from it by using an AMD card, since the AMD DX11 driver is even worse.

Driver overhead is a worse problem under DX12 than DX11 when using an NVIDIA card. In any case, driver overhead isn't much of a contributing factor in performance when the CPU is already as fast as a 12700K.

 

[coercitiv]

In any case, driver overhead isn't much of a contributing factor in performance when the CPU is already as fast as a 12700K.

We were talking about CPU limitations on 7700K, not 12700K.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Thanks everyone for the help! My goal is to get minimum 30 fps in Planet Coaster in the most demanding park with park visitors too if possible. I think this upgrade will do it sense right now I only get 15 to 18 fps minimum.

Do not think that is to much to ask for. If I get more than 30 fps minimum then that is a nice bonus!

Would you mind posting in here once you upgrade and letting is know how it goes? It would be interesting to see if it's enough to get you into the playable FPS level.

 

[JoeRambo]

Would you mind posting in here once you upgrade and letting is know how it goes? It would be interesting to see if it's enough to get you into the playable FPS level.

I can't comment on Planet Coaster, cause i don't play that game. But i do play Anno 1800, a game that mid-late game is completely CPU bound.

I went from 10900K @5.1Ghz with custom tuned memory to 12900K 5ghz also similar levels of memory tuning. And the difference is HUGE. I can't really do apples to apples as i don't have saves and frankly with a game like Anno 1800 methodology is hard to come up, as you hit limits zooming, panning etc and there has been patches since my upgrade.
But the improvement is very real and i feel like 12900K is 'buying' me plenty of extra >60FPS experience compared to previous system.

That's the problem with game testing being limited to FPS. You miss plenty of equally important metrics: some are obvious - like hitting quick load in some badly optimized RPG game and saving seconds of your own life - to somewhat more obvious ones like turn times in some 4X game like CIV4 or Old World, to completely esoteric ones like simulation speed in Paradox Grand strategy games like HOI4 or Stellaris.

My completely unscientific take on "game speed" for ADL with properly tuned DDR4 versus Skylake derivatives is: 50% faster

I am also getting that 50% speed up in Speedometer 2.0 browser test:

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vs

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ADL is a beast held back by memory. That said, if one is planning to run JEDEC speeds and timings, i think going AMD Z3D with their massive caches might be safer choice.

 

[maddogmcgee]

Always interesting to get another perspective as most videos are made about performance in GPU limited games. I mostly play HOi4 and Oxygen Not Included atm, two games that are completely CPU bound. Not ready to upgrade my 3700x yet.....but by the time we get the next gen from Intel and proper next gen from AMD......DDR5 prices should be starting to become sane. I don't suppose having a CPU for 30 months before starting to get the upgrade itch is tooo bad

 

[Ranulf]

Eh, I'd say the Paradox games especially Stellaris are more limited by the engine's limitations that can't handle the load in general. Raw cpu isn't going to help those games that much.

 

[Liljames326]

let me just say, my current build has been an i 7700k liquid cooled, 1070 8g strix, 32gb ballistix sport ram, 1tb intel 660p m.2 i believe it is, evga 850 gold psu, great cooling inside, no parts get over 60 even stressful gaming. normal gaming at 1080p is realitvely easy. but higher end games like resident evil remaster, especially assassins creed, more core intensive have been bottlenecked by the 7700k. its a great processor and super fast still for more anything. but even upgrading to an asus tuf 3070 video card, i am being heavily bottlenecked in most games by the 7700k. its not worth it to upgrade to just the 9th or 10th gen, so might as well spend a bit and get the 12600 or 12700k. it will only cost as much as any other processor or less in this stupid market because of scalpers. most people only buy those overpriced older gen processors for a plug and play upgrade but its dumb! just seen a guy trying to upgrade from a 10400f to a 10900k. i was like the processor is 400+ get the core count and extra speed, spend 550 on a 12600k with a ddr4 motherboard and all in one liquid cooler. all the parts are generally inexpensive. although i went straight for an msi 12700k for even more cores, msi meg aio with digital display for temps etc, msi force mobo for the white accent, 2 more 2 tb intel 660p for backup and game drives, case etc. you can use paypal pay in 4 if you have a prexisting good standing paypal account. make the switch, even these processors wont be used heavily for the next couple years, especially if companies could actually care to optimize their games efficiently. but all those parts are on the way, still running my 7700k playing ark nearly ultra graphics but having to turn certain things down because the processor just cant handle maxing render distance loading everything etc. itd be great resale value as well, im only going to sell my pc for 1000 after this despite higher market values to give somebody a great deal who cant actually afford more because of this market.

 

[Liljames326]

I recently upgraded from a 4770K to a 12700K DDR4 based system. Both the 7700K and 4770K are quad core. The difference for me was massive. Generally not measure in percent but more in how many times faster is the new rig. Like 5x faster encoding with Handbrake. Games, I don't know as I haven't been a gamer in a few years. For me everything that was compute bound, video, photoshop, etc.. is probably 4 to 6 times faster.

there is a pretty big different in the 4770k and 7700k in processing power though too.

https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

that is a great site for comparing typical data although not entirely accurate, if you know how to read it its very helpful having the full database of items to compare. some test benches are bad though so take that into account. the percentages you see are sometimes overdone or underdone but also dont just go by that, look at the actual specs and architecture of the items your comparing. also going from ddr3 to even 4 or especially 5 will be extremely noticeable with most tasks or even games that use a lot of ram like minecraft used to

 

[Hulk]

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The 4770k and 7700k are closer than you would think in many benchmarks for CPU's that are supposedly separated by 3 generations. Of course in reality it's only 1 generation, Haswell>Skylake for any significant architectural changes. Both have 4 cores. After that it's just memory subsystems and clocks. There IS a difference, but not nearly like the move from the 7700k to the 12700k, which is huge. Double the cores, two architectures advanced, higher clocks, and 4 additional cores with nearly the same IPC as the 7700k! That was my point.

 

[Liljames326]

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The 4770k and 7700k are closer than you would think in many benchmarks for CPU's that are supposedly separated by 3 generations. Of course in reality it's only 1 generation, Haswell>Skylake for any significant architectural changes. Both have 4 cores. After that it's just memory subsystems and clocks. There IS a difference, but not nearly like the move from the 7700k to the 12700k, which is huge. Double the cores, two architectures advanced, higher clocks, and 4 additional cores with nearly the same IPC as the 7700k! That was my point.

that is true, though the amount of cores doesnt always denote performance which is all i was getting at and hope it doesnt get misconstrued by people tuning in late like myself. the architecture does allow for better software, as well as better hardware performance capabilities across across the motherboard, although they are close in numbers, they are also further apart on the higher core usage and hyper threading capabilities. even the 6600k overall is better than the 4770k despite being a non threaded cpu.
it is definitely sad the money grab between generations, because it is only about every 3 generations we get new truly flagship hardware, reminds me of the waste of 16 series video cards.. i will stick with intel because of the reliability and my history with having an i5 650 for gaming up till 7 years ago lol. but with the 12th gen and ddr5 and new cards out, it was time to make the switch up.

 

[DrMrLordX]

that is true, though the amount of cores doesnt always denote performance

Quads are no longer suitable for modern software.