i7-3770K vs. i7-2600K: Temperature, Voltage, GHz and Power-Consumption Analysis

Discussion in 'CPUs and Overclocking' started by Idontcare, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    The "effective area" is difficult to relate to the inclusion of finfets because it is an "effective" or "equivalence" metric. It includes the BEOL (wires) as well as stuff leaking in and around the transistors combined with the substrate leakage.

    The way to think of the "B" term is that it represents a value that comes from a weighted summation over all the leakage elements present in the IC, billions of them.

    The same with the activation energy and the field-enhancement leakage, the values extracted from the data are just average values derived from the ensemble of billion of leakage points in the IC, each with their own activation energy and field enhancement effect, so what we are basically looking at is where the average values of the system has changed to.

    The leakier components are going to dominate the parameters unless the weighting for them is very small.

    I'm thinking the reduction in both activation barrier and field-effect leakage is a one-time offset that occurred because of the transition to finfet, meaning I'd expect Intel's 14nm to have essentially identical activation barrier (same dielectric materials) but higher field effect leakage (narrower dielectric spaces between the wires).
     
  2. atomheart

    atomheart Member

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    That was very interesting to read, I can only hope one day I'll reach a point in my studies where I can understand 1/4 of that.
     
  3. lau808

    lau808 Senior member

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    u happen to run any benchmarks at max oc on these?
     
  4. PlasmaBomb

    PlasmaBomb Lifer

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    Great post IDC :thumbsup:
     
  5. Dadofamunky

    Dadofamunky Platinum Member

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    Awesome post except for the maaaaaaaaathhh which is at the top end of my experience. No math-dog here. :D
     
  6. Vesku

    Vesku Diamond Member

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    A stock 3770k presumably would have a lower MHz advantage vs voltage due to higher temps. Would be interesting to have an unmodified 3770k added to the comparison.
     
  7. lambchops511

    lambchops511 Senior member

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    This is just 2nd year EE knowledge :)
     
  8. PlasmaBomb

    PlasmaBomb Lifer

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    You would also need a stock 2600k to compare it to, IDC didn't leave his 2600k stock either...
     
  9. Vesku

    Vesku Diamond Member

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    Just seeing the modded vs unmodded 3770K would be quite interesting with or without stock 2600K.
     
  10. dma0991

    dma0991 Platinum Member

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    It is beyond my comprehension but nevertheless a very good read. Great write up. :thumbsup:
     
  11. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    I have some data that was acquired prior to the modifications. What are you looking for? I will gladly pull together the graphical comparisons.
     
  12. Vesku

    Vesku Diamond Member

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    Clockspeed versus Peak Temperature

    and

    CPU Power Consumption

    Differences are likely to be small but I'm curious what effect replacing the TIM (and lapping) had from stock.

    Appreciate the effort you put into these posts, btw.
     
  13. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Sure I think I can pull those results together and make a nice comparative graph or table. Give me to this evening and I'll upload the table with the power numbers in it.

    In the meantime if you haven't seen them yet I'll give you some links to some data that may answer those questions in a round-about manner. For instance checkout this thread and note the links in the OP to specific topics/posts that I felt merited extra mention (for example it turned out the CPU TIM itself isn't the problem, the gap is the problem).

    Also checkout this post for data regarding CPU power and temperature for the 3770k, its buried in the OC'ing sticky so probably not many people saw it.

    For the stock 3770k with stock HSF, this post has a data table in it that gives you max temperatures at min Vcc. I have the power data that goes with that table, just didn't include it in the table in that post. I'll pull them together and post it up later.
     
  14. Vesku

    Vesku Diamond Member

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    Wow, glad you pointed me to your gap test post. So if Intel had just made the IHS a tiny bit shorter... Are the IHS dimensions the same as with SB (assumption is yes)?

    Thinking about it, tweaking the height of the IHS would probably be quite a big ask. Best to do that sort of thing on a socket change when lots of other validation needs to be done.
     
    #39 Vesku, Nov 12, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  15. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Is this more what you were looking for?

    [​IMG]

    I doubt Intel would bother to invest the time and effort into optimizing/minimizing the CPU-to-IHS gap given that the CPU performs just fine when operated at spec in terms of clockspeed and voltage.

    Its just us overclockers that find the gap to be very rate limiting because of the thermals.
     
  16. Vesku

    Vesku Diamond Member

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    Yes, that's the kind of info I was interested in. Thanks, Idontcare.

    Since they are selling the K models for overclocking I don't think it's overly demanding from the consumer standpoint to push for better thermals. Whether that will get anywhere with Intel...
     
  17. GPz1100

    GPz1100 Senior member

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    Was discussing water cooling solutions with a sales person from svc.com today. The rep was confident that some IB cpus were soldered, not TIM insulted between the heat spreader and die. I took his responses with a grain of salt. I highly doubt intel would change their manufacturing processes so drastically. He kept going on and on about SB being better.
     
  18. ViRGE

    ViRGE Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus

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    Whenever I read an IDC post it's like getting hit in the head with the clue-by-four's evolved form, the baseball bat of knowledge.:eek:

    That was a very enlightening read, IDC. Thank you.:)
     
  19. boxleitnerb

    boxleitnerb Platinum Member

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    Is there a comparison what kind of improvement the replacement of the TIM alone yields in terms of power consumption? Thanks.
     
  20. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    I have that data too, but I need more info from you first so I can narrow down the data dump to something more specific to what you are looking for.

    When you refer to the "TIM" are you speaking of the TIM that goes between the IHS and the HSF (aka HSF TIM)or the TIM that goes between the CPU silicon die and the underside of the IHS (aka CPU TIM)?

    [​IMG]
     
  21. boxleitnerb

    boxleitnerb Platinum Member

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    I meant the CPU TIM.
     
  22. Idontcare

    Idontcare Elite Member

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    Ah, ok, in that case the result from replacing the CPU TIM was that it didn't actually change temperatures (and thus no change in power consumption) when replacing the CPU TIM.

    All the benefits that come from delidding are entirely due to reducing the gap (the thickness of the CPU TIM). When I replaced the stock Intel CPU TIM with NT-H1 and intentionally kept the gap height the same my 3770k's temperatures actually went up a smidge, implying the stock Intel CPU TIM is actually slightly superior to that of NT-H1.

    Checkout this post and this post.

    [​IMG]

    Getting rid of the thick CPU TIM (regardless what CPU TIM used) by reducing the gap height is what is key to reducing the temperatures (and thus power consumption) in these Ivy Bridge chips.

    Getting rid of the IHS entirely and directly mounting the bare silicon die only marginally improves on the thermal conduction and heat transfer over that of getting rid of the gap itself.
     
  23. boxleitnerb

    boxleitnerb Platinum Member

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    Good to know, thanks!
    One thing is not clear to me: If one removes the adhesive, thus reducing the gap, how will the IHS stay on the package and not fall off? The suction force of the CPU TIM may hold it a bit in place, but the contact are is small and the IHS is not exactly weightless. The pressure of the mounted HSF may help, but I would still be worried that after prolongued operation and movement of the computer case the IHS might slip downward, leading to a broken thermal interface.
     
    #48 boxleitnerb, Nov 13, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  24. GPz1100

    GPz1100 Senior member

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    @Boxleitnerb,

    Once the cpu/IHS is in the socket with the hold down mechanism engaged, it's going nowhere. The hold down applies pressure on the sides (of the IHS). If you recall from IDC's delidding thread, you actually have to shift the IHS away from the socket a few mm before engaging the hold down, otherwise it shifts slightly when being engaged. Best to practice this BEFORE applying the TIM so you have some idea how much the offset is.
     
  25. boxleitnerb

    boxleitnerb Platinum Member

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    You're right, I forgot the hold down mechanism. Let's hope Intel fixes this gap thing with Haswell. I would delid it, but if I don't have to, all the better.