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I won't be buying NVIDIA any time soon

I

iamthebear

Member
Screw this, with the recent announcement of NVDIA buying 3dfx, competition is getting thin. The Ultra costs upwards of $600 here in Canada - I can buy a second system for that price (thank you sir, would like a complimentary PC with your video card purchase?). I'm going to hold on to my G400MAX as long as possible, and if these prices keep up i'll just get a console for gaming - its a hell of alot cheaper than a video card these days.
 
That is a lame arguement. Its like not buying a Honda because their Acuras cost around $40,000.00. The Geforce 2 Ultra costs $499. That is their high end video card and is not intended for the mainstream market. Most games run very fast on a Geforce 2 GTS. A Geforce 2 Pro runs for the same price as an ATI radeon 64MB. Anyone remember how much a Voodoo 2 SLI cost? $299 x 2 =$600. Of course most people did not buy it because it was only for the die hard gamers. Anyways, I give my dues to 3dfx. They revolutionized the 3D market. I wished it was ATI who was going out cause I never have liked them even though I have tried almost everyone of their cards.
 




<< I wished it was ATI who was going out cause I never have liked them even though I have tried almost everyone of their cards. >>



You may have your wish, Pidge. nVidia has already taken away ATi's crown for the OEM market, and it's only a matter of time before ATi caves in. What ATi needs to do is get their $hit together and build a video card that blows away anything nVidia makes, and also get a better video driver development team. But, that would be a dream, wouldn't it?
 


<< What ATi needs to do is get their $hit together and build a video card that blows away anything nVidia makes >>



They do, it is called the Radeon. I have the AIW version that I use for video capture. NVIDIA does not come close to providing a product similar to the AIW (I know Asus makes a Geforce2 card with video capture and editing features, but the AIW is much better).

As far as their driver team, I do agree with you. Although I am running Win98SE and have no problems do anything with my AIW card.

I guess now that the 3DFX and NVIDIA war is over, people are going to focus all their attention to NVIDIA vs. ATI.



<< You may have your wish, Pidge. nVidia has already taken away ATi's crown for the OEM market >>



You are on crack to think ATI does not have a great chunk of the OEM market. That has always been their bread and butter. Now they are capturing a good chunk of the retail market with the Radeon. ATI is not going out of business. Just because 3DFX did, it does not mean the entire market is going to cave in to NVIDIA.

ATI is not going to drop it's pants, and bend over to NVIDIA.

Just take a look in these forums and see how many people use the Radeon.
 


<< You may have your wish, Pidge. nVidia has already taken away ATi's crown for the OEM market, and it's only a matter of time before ATi caves in. What ATi needs to do is get their $hit together and build a video card that blows away anything nVidia makes, and also get a better video driver development team. But, that would be a dream, wouldn't it? >>


It's always the same people isn't it? ATI just signed some major new OEM deals. They are a financially stable and well run company. With stellar USABLE products like Radeon that are superior to nVidia, they won't be going anywhere. As much as you might wish it, it's just not going to happen my negative thinking friend.
 


<< With stellar USABLE products like Radeon that are superior to nVidia, they won't be going anywhere. >>




that my friend, is pure opinion 🙂
 
Pidge: << &quot;...I never have liked them ....&quot; >>

Thanks for clearing that up for everybody. Most people around here already knew you were biased against them, but it's nice to see you admit it.

Compellor: << &quot;nVidia has already taken away ATi's crown for the OEM market&quot; >>

Not even close. Worldwide ATI is 67% bigger in the OEM market. Only in the U.S. has Nvidia closed the gap. Of course the Radeon has taken a huge chunk away from Nvidia retail sales, so it all evens out I guess. ATI now has a serious foundation to build on in the retail market, and the future generations of Radeon will be very competative against anything that Nvidia has to offer.

Doomguy: << &quot;Useable win2k/linux drivers would be nice....&quot; >>

Actually the latest Win2K drivers are very good and come within about 10% of the Win98 performance. I am running a dual boot system BTW. Sorry, but that argument simply doesn't work anymore.

IMO the Radeon is a superior card to the GeForce2 GTS. Most people I hear from would agree. That's why I have an Ultra in one machine and a 64MB Radeon in the other. I can give you an equal list of strengths and weaknesses for both cards. But the people who go around constantly trying to bash other cards (like some of the guys in this thread have done in many other threads) simply show that they are too involved and need to step back from the computer. Anybody who thinks that ATI or Nvidia will go out of business is just not aware of the current state of the industry. They are both such large companies that neither will crush, or be crushed anytime soon.



 


<< Anybody who thinks that ATI or Nvidia will go out of business is just not aware of the current state of the industry. They are both such large companies that neither will crush, or be crushed anytime soon. >>



That's what people thought about 3Dfx until recently.



<< Not even close. Worldwide ATI is 67% bigger in the OEM market. Only in the U.S. has Nvidia closed the gap. Of course the Radeon has taken a huge chunk away from Nvidia retail sales, so it all evens out I guess. >>



Speculate all you want, but there's no way in hell that ATi is outselling nVidia. Look at all the different manufacturers that use nVidia graphics chips. It's like saying Macintosh outsells PC's 2 to 1.



<< ATI now has a serious foundation to build on in the retail market, and the future generations of Radeon will be very competative against anything that Nvidia has to offer. >>



Pure speculation. Did you use a crystal ball?
 
Sorry but nobody is speculating here. I am dealing only with the facts. The facts are exactly what I stated, and the numbers are there to back it up. Apparently since you are a Nvidia fan, that is the only company you keep up with. I understand that. Myself on the other hand, I am a fan of graphics technology regardless of what name is on it, and the industry as a whole.

You are using the fact that many different companies sell the GeForce boards as your basis? Sorry, but that is just silly. We are talking about the entire market, not one segment of the market. As I said before, ATI actually has a full 67% larger share of the market worldwide than Nvidia. It's simple facts that are not up for discussion or speculation. I'm sorry if the facts are making you angry. Not my fault.
 


<< ATI actually has a full 67% larger share of the market worldwide than Nvidia. >>



You say it's a fact, and I'm supposed to believe you? Where's a link? Also, where's the evidence that ATi outsells nVidia in the retail market? Facts are meaningless without the evidence. You're known for spouting off about how you are so non-biased, yet you never, ever, back up anything you say with a link. Oh, I get it. You're the expert on video cards -- and a know-it-all. I'm sorry, I forgot.
 
Even though ATI does have a slightly larger market share, would you not say that for them to continue to keep stride with NVidia may be a tremendous strain on their financials?
They still have a ton of two generation old video cards still on the market(their only way to gain market share over the more expensive NVidia cards), making their market share obviously large still, but at some point those cards will stop being practical, and NVidia's surge will just be to strong. I've heard ATI's profit margins are very low right now, as they're selling their cards as cheap as they can without losing money, just to keep up with NVidia.
Between the two, I like NVidia in the long run, as they have a lot of backing from other companies, and a still growing share of the video chip market.
 
I am stationed in Europe (German-Netherland-Belguim border) and you would be hard pressed to buy a new PC over here without a ATI card in it. Every week there are flyers from electronics stores, and in every machine they advertise, there is an ATI video card.

Of course the sell all the different brands of NVIDIA cards here also, but at 1700.00 DM ($790.00 U.S.) for a Geforce2 Ultra, they aren't a hot priority.

Radeon hasn't even broken in the market here because the ATI Xpert 2000 is so popular in new machines.

Even a TNT2 Ultra card here is still 299.00 DM ($139.00)

ATI owns Europe, unless you have a lot of $$$$$$$.

BTW I owned a Asus Geforce Pure card, a Creative Labs Geforce2 card, G400 Max card, and a Voodoo 3000 card. I now own the Radeon AIW and I love it!!!
 
I'm rootin for em(ATI), honest, of course because they're Canadian.
But I'm just a little interested once NVidia's last generation and the one before cards start dropping in price because they release newer ones all the time. Once the GeForces/TNT2s can be had for the same price as a low end ATI card, there's no telling what'll happen. ATI owned the market for 15 years, but in the last 3 look what NVidia has accomplished. It'll be scary once they have a little more seniority.
 
I WANT EVERYONE TO PAY ATENTION TO THIS POST. I have not been rude in this thread, and yet this person seems to be LYING about me, and making claims that are clearly false. I don't put the smack down often, and I'm sure there are atleast a few people around here that would say I have helped them, and offer unbiased and friendly advice. However I must defend myself here from this person's lies and accusations.

Compellor.

1) The link showing the overall worldwide market has already been posted above by antiABIT. It basically states exactly what I said. Excuse me for thinking you were smart enough to look at the chart and figure out what the pretty colors mean.

2) Show me anywhere where I said specifically said they were leading in the retail market. I made it clear that we are talking about the whole market, not one segment of the market. I only pointed it out because you incorrectly stated otherwise with your &quot;OEM Crown&quot; statement. The only thing I said regarding the retail market was that the Radeon took a chunk from Nvidia's sales, and established a firm foundation to build on. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID OTHERWISE, OR STOP LYING.

3) Show me where I said I was a graphics expert. SHOW ME WHERE I SAID IT, OR STOP LYING.
(Although I clearly know much more than you)


Step up man and back up what you claim. You can't because you are a LIAR and a PUNK. I did not deserve such an attitude and I don't appreciate it. I suggest you apologize or edit your post.
 
Yes it`s very sad what happened to 3DFX, I used to own a voodoo1 long time ago then moved up to TNT because it was good value for money just like my Geforce2 MX I now own.

Anyway most people like myself choose there card on value for money &amp; personal experience with the brands they have used,Would I go with Matrox or ATi yes if the card was good value for money &amp; has very good driver support, so does that make me biased to Nvidia? no because in the future I would consider changing to another brand even though I`v had good driver &amp; gaming experience(no problems) from my Nvidia cards.

We have to remember in the business world Companies take no prisoners(Yes we don`t like seeing companies go down) &amp; yes it effects people lives but unfortunately this will always happen in the free world.
 
I agree:

I would buy any video card that had the features and support I needed. Right now (and hopefully for a long time cause buying a new card every 3 months is causing me to be poor 🙂)I love the AIW Radeon card for my video capture and editing features. It also is great for gaming (although the 64 MB version is better for just gaming).

I am not here saying NVIDIA or any other company is going out of business. I don't know why people are staarting in on ATI now (maybe they are bored because they can't pick on 3DFX anymore).

3DFX announced a long time ago that they were not doing great financially. ATI is not financially unstable. They are doing great actually. The Radeon is a great card. The OEM deals are solid.

Is NVIDIA gaining on them? Yes. Is it to the point that it truly hurts them? No. Just look at my above link. Intel is #2. Nvidia is #3. ATI is #1.

I personally think Matrox is going to be the next company that falls. They have no new product (the G450 is not a new chipset)

They just have to hope that their dual monitor cards will do good in the business segment. If not, then they will not be in good shape.

It seems that people like when companies fail, but it does not help us the consumer, as it only drives up prices (Intel).

Give it a rest people........



 
In all fairness, I have an ELSA Gladiac 32 and I am very impressed with its performance. However I am seriously considering changing to a Radeon 64MB, which maybe slower in certain settings, but its features is unmatched. ELSA disappointed me when they started offering the VIVO module then said it was out of stock. So basically the things I could do with the Radeon out of the box I may never be able to do with this Gladiac. What will definately keep ATi in the game is the faetures they give you stock on their video cards, not to mention those that are offered as upgrades such as the AIWs.
 
SleepyTim:

That chart only shows integrated OEM graphics chips (and by your standards, that information is &quot;old&quot😉. The gap is closing, as stated by nVidia:



<< SANTA CLARA, CA - DECEMBER 5, 2000 - NVIDIA® Corporation (Nasdaq: NVDA) today announced that in PC Magazine's December 5th article entitled &quot;High-End PCs&quot;, all of the 14 PCs reviewed featured NVIDIA-based graphics cards, including the Micron Millennia MAX XP, winner of PC Magazine Editors' Choice. Solutions based on the NVIDIA GeForce2 family were cited as the standard for high-end PCs due to outstanding performance in Ziff-Davis' 3D WinBench 2000.

&quot;The top desktops on 3D WinBench were those using the NVIDIA GeForce2 Ultra graphics chip set,&quot; said Joel Santo Domingo project leader for PCs &amp; Devices, PC Magazine Labs. &quot;Although it was not required, all had graphics powered by NVIDIA.&quot;

&quot;Recognition from our OEMs &amp; PC Magazine is affirmation of NVIDIA's position as the worldwide leader in 3D graphics technology,&quot; stated Dan Vivoli, senior vice president of marketing at NVIDIA. &quot;We continue to drive the market &amp; set the standard for performance excellence.&quot; >>



This doesn't prove anything, but does show nVidia's continued dominance in the OEM market.

Didn't you once state that they're just video cards? It's really funny how one (you) can take things out of context and come to a conclusion that they're (you) being &quot;attacked,&quot; or that their (you) credibility on the forum is being &quot;tainted.&quot;



<< You can't because you are a LIAR and a PUNK. >>



It doesn't surprise me, coming from someone that uses a signature that says he &quot;hates just about everybody. Period.&quot; Lighten up and let it rest.
 
I agree too. Compellor is wrong and the evidence is right in front of his face. Now he is attacking people for no reason only because he has been proven wrong. You are over your head on this one Compellor, and arguing with people who know a lot more than you. With all the times you have been proven wrong by so many people around here, don't you think you should stop making a fool out of yourself? Damn Compellor why you don't take a day off from being a moron.

 
&quot;Thanks for clearing that up for everybody. Most people around here already knew you were biased against them, but it's nice to see you admit it.&quot;

I don't mind admitting it. I used to hate AMD just as much but their Athlon made me change my mind about them and I am a fan of theirs now. AMD keeps making good products and that is why I am a fan of theirs now. ATI has yet to give me a reason to like them.

&quot;Not even close. Worldwide ATI is 67% bigger in the OEM market. Only in the U.S. has Nvidia closed the gap. Of course the Radeon has taken a huge chunk away from Nvidia retail sales, so it all evens out I guess. ATI now has a serious foundation to build on in the retail market, and the future generations of Radeon will be very competative against anything that Nvidia has to offer.&quot;

You are correct in the mainstream market but you are forgetting the workstation market which NVIDIA has the lead. Also consider this. NVIDIA has about 600 employees. That is seriously not enough people to handle all of the OEM's. As soon as some of the 3dfx people go over to NVIDIA, I bet you will see a bunch of OEM's switch over. I checked Dell and Gateway's site. Sure ATI has design wins with them but they are only offering the Radeon's as an option. NVIDIA is still Standard and most general consumers go with the standard setup. There are also other factors that go into choosing a video card company to go with for your system if you are a system integrator and that is driver reliability and ease of use. And NVIDIA's drivers are excellent in that department. One unified driver supports all of NVIDIA's cards and when you remove the drivers through the Add/Remove Programs menu, it actually removes all of the drivers and registry entries, not like ATI where you have to manually remove a lot of the items. This is important to OEM's since they are responsable for providing end user support for their systems. In one year, I assure you NVIDIA willl have a sizeable lead in the OEM market worldwide.

&quot;Actually the latest Win2K drivers are very good and come within about 10% of the Win98 performance. I am running a dual boot system BTW. Sorry, but that argument simply doesn't work anymore.&quot;

It still does since many people who use Win2K are not just playing games. NVIDIA still has the best all around drivers and features. Why do you think John Carmack is using the Geforce 2 for his development systems for Doom 3? Heh...Why am I using a Geforce 2 Pro after having owned an ATI AIW Radeon?

&quot;IMO the Radeon is a superior card to the GeForce2 GTS. Most people I hear from would agree. That's why I have an Ultra in one machine and a 64MB Radeon in the other. I can give you an equal list of strengths and weaknesses for both cards. But the people who go around constantly trying to bash other cards (like some of the guys in this thread have done in many other threads) simply show that they are too involved and need to step back from the computer. Anybody who thinks that ATI or Nvidia will go out of business is just not aware of the current state of the industry. They are both such large companies that neither will crush, or be crushed anytime soon.&quot;

Well, there is nothing wrong with the Radeon being a better card for you but I still don't believe it is superior to the Geforce 2 GTS as you claim. I believe each has its own strengths and weaknesses and the Radeon's weakness is what I rely on the most and vice versa for you. Well, anyways, I better go. I have stuff to do.
 


<< Damn Compellor why you don't take a day off from being a moron. >>



At least I have the dignity and decency from calling other people names -- unlike some people. Also, there was nothing I was trying to prove. One's own opinion on something doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to state a fact or present the evidence. Some people here just can't distingish someone's opinions from facts, then decide to set the so-called &quot;dummy&quot; or &quot;offender&quot; (in their eyes) straight with their own interpretation. Whatever.
 
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