I welcome our new Tizen Overlords

[Red Storm]

Samsung is really serious about Tizen. They're porting their Android applications to it like mad. It could be a way out of Android for them.

Even if they port all of the Samsung apps, that pales in comparison to the entire Play Store. People would notice the missing Google Maps, Gmail, Hangouts/Talk, What'sapp, Tango/Viber, the different keyboard options, the launchers, the widgets, the games, etc.

 

[Bateluer]

If Samsung shifts to Tizen and discontinues its Android lineup then Tizen will totally eclipse Android. Samsung is Android when it comes to market share and profitability. Samsung leaving Android will mean Android will cease to exist because no other company has the magnitude and marketing power as Samsung/Apple.

Disagree with pretty much everything in the above paragraph. Samsung leaving Android cold turkey for Tizen would effectively take Samsung out of the running as a competitor in the smartphone/tablet market. It wouldn't take long for people to realize that the Tizen phone didn't work with 99% of available apps, and 100% of the Android apps they've already purchased.

Despite Samsung owning considerable market share of Android devices, HTC, Moto, LG, and even several Chinese manufacturers, have not been making junk. Arguably, they've all been making better phones than Samsung. Customers would just shift over to another Android manufacturer and we'd see Samsung's market share plummet HTC level fast.



Tizen exists solely as a back up plan for Samsung, in case of legal issues with Android's success. It'll be introduced on low end devices only and spend its entire existence scrapping the bottom of the market with FireFox OS and Ubuntu for Phones. I think Ubuntu for Phones will likely see more people using it as it'll be available on phones that aren't utter junk.

 

[bearxor]

I would note, for those that might not be aware, there's an Application Compatibility Layer in Tizen that has 100% compatibility with Android apps at full speed. Getting developers to put their Android apps up on a Tizen store would be fairly trivial.

I still think Tizen is a last choice bailout for Samsung, but I don't have any doubts that it's their current fallback plan. There were some rumblings of Samsung simply forking Android and working on their own version of it, but I think that makes less sense than Tizen. Forking Android would still revoke Samsung's access to Google apps so, if you have to curate your own store anyways, why not start with something new?

 

[Dari]

Tizen is Korean for Bada 2.0.

 

[boomhower]

Uhhhh Android have shitton of apps. What would Tizen have?

My guess, just about everything that doesn't have Google as the developer. Granted, those are biggies to be missing but if they got in bed with Microsoft or Nokia for a decent map app it could be overcome for the low end market. Again, my thinking is this is for the $0/$50 crowd. Not those buying the $200-$300 cutting edge phone. The former dumb phone going smartphone crowd is what I see as the target market.

I'm not saying they are going to supplant Android, far from it. I'm just saying I think there is a market they could go after and succeed. If they think they are going to put this on the GS5 and drop Android they are wrong.

 

[kaerflog]

If Samsung shifts to Tizen and discontinues its Android lineup then Tizen will totally eclipse Android. Samsung is Android when it comes to market share and profitability. Samsung leaving Android will mean Android will cease to exist because no other company has the magnitude and marketing power as Samsung/Apple.

LOL, this has to be the most moronic thing I've ever read.

 

[kaerflog]

Disagree with pretty much everything in the above paragraph. Samsung leaving Android cold turkey for Tizen would effectively take Samsung out of the running as a competitor in the smartphone/tablet market. It wouldn't take long for people to realize that the Tizen phone didn't work with 99% of available apps, and 100% of the Android apps they've already purchased.

Despite Samsung owning considerable market share of Android devices, HTC, Moto, LG, and even several Chinese manufacturers, have not been making junk. Arguably, they've all been making better phones than Samsung. Customers would just shift over to another Android manufacturer and we'd see Samsung's market share plummet HTC level fast.



Tizen exists solely as a back up plan for Samsung, in case of legal issues with Android's success. It'll be introduced on low end devices only and spend its entire existence scrapping the bottom of the market with FireFox OS and Ubuntu for Phones. I think Ubuntu for Phones will likely see more people using it as it'll be available on phones that aren't utter junk.

For once, I agreed 100% with what Bateluer said.

 

[gorcorps]

Disagree with pretty much everything in the above paragraph. Samsung leaving Android cold turkey for Tizen would effectively take Samsung out of the running as a competitor in the smartphone/tablet market. It wouldn't take long for people to realize that the Tizen phone didn't work with 99% of available apps, and 100% of the Android apps they've already purchased.

Despite Samsung owning considerable market share of Android devices, HTC, Moto, LG, and even several Chinese manufacturers, have not been making junk. Arguably, they've all been making better phones than Samsung. Customers would just shift over to another Android manufacturer and we'd see Samsung's market share plummet HTC level fast.



Tizen exists solely as a back up plan for Samsung, in case of legal issues with Android's success. It'll be introduced on low end devices only and spend its entire existence scrapping the bottom of the market with FireFox OS and Ubuntu for Phones. I think Ubuntu for Phones will likely see more people using it as it'll be available on phones that aren't utter junk.

Agreed

People are buying Samsung phones because they're one of the best ANDROID devices. Most people aren't buying Samsung because it's Samsung, it's because it's android. If they left android they'd be screwed. I know HTC is next in line for my business if they continue to use competitive battery sizes. Samsung has circumstantial popularity, but I think they know it so they won't do anything rash.

 

[Germanic]

Disagree with pretty much everything in the above paragraph. Samsung leaving Android cold turkey for Tizen would effectively take Samsung out of the running as a competitor in the smartphone/tablet market. It wouldn't take long for people to realize that the Tizen phone didn't work with 99% of available apps, and 100% of the Android apps they've already purchased.

Despite Samsung owning considerable market share of Android devices, HTC, Moto, LG, and even several Chinese manufacturers, have not been making junk. Arguably, they've all been making better phones than Samsung. Customers would just shift over to another Android manufacturer and we'd see Samsung's market share plummet HTC level fast.



Tizen exists solely as a back up plan for Samsung, in case of legal issues with Android's success. It'll be introduced on low end devices only and spend its entire existence scrapping the bottom of the market with FireFox OS and Ubuntu for Phones. I think Ubuntu for Phones will likely see more people using it as it'll be available on phones that aren't utter junk.

Do you really think that people buy Samsung smartphones/tablets because it's Android? The vast majority of people don't even know the fundamental difference between iOS and Android. Do you really think that the words iOS, Android and Tizen really matter to them more so than advertisements, sponsoring and marketing? If you do, then you are extremely naive in a business sense. Only Apple can compete with Samsung in terms of marketing, nobody else in the smartphone/tablet world can.

People buy Samsung smartphones/tablets because they are Samsung. Samsung's marketing dominance is what makes Samsung products so successful. Samsung sponsors so many events and teams that it's crazy.

The vast majority of customers don't really buy Android smartphones because they're Android. The average person probably buys a smartphone because of external factors such as advertisements and promotions. I really don't think Samsung will exit Android ever however if they do, I expect Android market share to plummet, with most of that market share gained by Apple and Tizen.

 

[bearxor]

I really don't think Samsung will exit Android ever however if they do, I expect Android market share to plummet, with most of that market share gained by Apple and Tizen.

I don't completely disagree with you or any of the other posters. I think people buy Samsung Android phones for a variety of reasons. Big screens. Marketing. Cheap. I think that "because it's Android" is probably farther down on the list than a lot of people here think.

I don't have any doubt that if Samsung did decide to go Tizen that it would make a pretty significant dent in the number of Android units shipped. However, I very seriously doubt Apple would pick up any significant portion of that market share.

The people who want Android would simply pick a different manufacturer, not jump ship to iOS. The people who currently buy Samsung devices because of the physical characteristics, like the large screen, would simply continue to buy Samsung devices running Tizen.

 

[cbrunny]

If Samsung shifts to Tizen and discontinues its Android lineup then Tizen will totally eclipse Android. Samsung is Android when it comes to market share and profitability. Samsung leaving Android will mean Android will cease to exist because no other company has the magnitude and marketing power as Samsung/Apple.

It is extremely well documented that Android's biggest issue is that it is fragmented - that it is on too many different types of phones. To suggest that one phone supplier leaving the picture will change anything at all is ludicrous, especially with Google taking over Motorola and the relative success of the nexus line.

 

[Red Storm]

It is extremely well documented that Android's biggest issue is that it is fragmented - that it is on too many different types of phones. To suggest that one phone supplier leaving the picture will change anything at all is ludicrous, especially with Google taking over Motorola and the relative success of the nexus line.

That is Android's biggest feature.

 

[cbrunny]

That is Android's biggest feature.

Yes, I know. It is at the same time both the best and worst thing about the OS. Best because it's widely available and open sourced. Worst because app developers don't have a "Standard" set of hardware to develop on.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Do you really think that people buy Samsung smartphones/tablets because it's Android?

Yes.

Not because they know what Android or even an OS is. Android is just a brand to them- like organic food. Samsung's phones are branded with this Android, which means you get access to the apps that you see advertised all around you.

If Samsung abandoned Android the next day "the wall" between Motorola and Google would come down...

 

[cbrunny]

Not because they know what Android or even an OS is. Android is just a brand to them- like organic food. Samsung's phones are branded with this Android, which means you get access to the apps that you see advertised all around you.

Even if every word of this is acutely factually correct, it would still have no impact on Android as an OS, or Google's ability/willingness to develop it.

 

[kasakka]

Tizen seems like it desperately wants to be Android but without Google behind it. It seems very much like a clone based on the design documents. They haven't apparently even tried to make it function better or make better use of multitouch gestures etc.

 

[Bateluer]

Do you really think that people buy Samsung smartphones/tablets because it's Android? The vast majority of people don't even know the fundamental difference between iOS and Android. Do you really think that the words iOS, Android and Tizen really matter to them more so than advertisements, sponsoring and marketing? If you do, then you are extremely naive in a business sense. Only Apple can compete with Samsung in terms of marketing, nobody else in the smartphone/tablet world can.

People buy Samsung smartphones/tablets because they are Samsung. Samsung's marketing dominance is what makes Samsung products so successful. Samsung sponsors so many events and teams that it's crazy.

The vast majority of customers don't really buy Android smartphones because they're Android. The average person probably buys a smartphone because of external factors such as advertisements and promotions. I really don't think Samsung will exit Android ever however if they do, I expect Android market share to plummet, with most of that market share gained by Apple and Tizen.

Yes, people do buy Samsung Galaxy's because they are Android. Most actually refer to all Android devices as simply 'an Android'. You have to dig a little find if their using a Galaxy or a Razr, etc. Its all 'Android'.

Samsung has the most powerful marketing engine in this arena today, no question, but to say Android's market share would plummet is idiotic. Its Samsung's market share that would plummet when all the GS4 owners buy HTC/Moto/LG units. For reference, where's Samsung's Bada OS now?

Yes.

Not because they know what Android or even an OS is. Android is just a brand to them- like organic food. Samsung's phones are branded with this Android, which means you get access to the apps that you see advertised all around you.

If Samsung abandoned Android the next day "the wall" between Motorola and Google would come down...

^ Yep. As I said previously, the latest devices from Moto, HTC, and LG are all at least equal to or better than Samsung's flagship. Samsung dropping Android for their in house Tizen OS would simply mean that millions of users would move to Moto/HTC/LG the instant the carrier rep tells them that all their previously purchased content goes up in smoke if they buy a Tizen device. The average joe may not the most technically inclined, but this ecosystem hurdle isn't going to be hard to suss out.

It is extremely well documented that Android's biggest issue is that it is fragmented - that it is on too many different types of phones..

Yeesh, this is the myth that just won't die. A pox on Apple execs for starting it. Fragmentation, the way its being pushed by a few zealots, simply does not exist. You can purchase an Android device from nearly any manufacturer and run 99.99% of all apps on the Play Store without any issue. Fragmentation in reality means that the end user has a choice between a physical keyboard or pure onscreen, a choice between ultra premium 1080p screens or cheaper 720p screens, or absolute bargain qHD or lower, a choice between Sense or TouchWiz or Vanilla, etc. It generate stiff competition between Android device makers. Note how Apple and WP8 devices are nearly completely stagnant. When one stops for a moment to think and absorb the facts, fragmentation ends up being a major strength that works to the consumers favor.

 

[BladeVenom]

Samsung isn't going to abandon Android.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Yeesh, this is the myth that just won't die. A pox on Apple execs for starting it. Fragmentation, the way its being pushed by a few zealots, simply does not exist. You can purchase an Android device from nearly any manufacturer and run 99.99% of all apps on the Play Store without any issue. Fragmentation in reality means that the end user has a choice between a physical keyboard or pure onscreen, a choice between ultra premium 1080p screens or cheaper 720p screens, or absolute bargain qHD or lower, a choice between Sense or TouchWiz or Vanilla, etc. It generate stiff competition between Android device makers. Note how Apple and WP8 devices are nearly completely stagnant. When one stops for a moment to think and absorb the facts, fragmentation ends up being a major strength that works to the consumers favor.

Great point. Fragmentation on Android today basically means that your phone runs Android 4.1.x or 4.2.x instead of 4.3, and that it may run a custom manufacturer UI skin out of the box. That's it. It will run the same programs.

It could be a bit of an issue with Android 5.0 comes out, but some companies have a good reputation for keeping current, eventually (the Galaxy S II, for example, runs Android 4.1.2 now and basically got all of the Nature UX "improvements" that the S III had). Some companies do not have a good reputation for keeping current (Motorola, HTC, LG (hopefully changing with new products), etc.).

 

[jiffylube1024]

If Samsung shifts to Tizen and discontinues its Android lineup then Tizen will totally eclipse Android. Samsung is Android when it comes to market share and profitability. Samsung leaving Android will mean Android will cease to exist because no other company has the magnitude and marketing power as Samsung/Apple.

No they won't, Tizen has no ecosystem.

If Samsung actually did that, it would be the best gift that HTC, LG, ZTE, Sony, Motorola, and all the other Android phone makers ever got. Free marketshare, yay!

Remember Nokia? They were a titan in the phone industry. Where are they now? They backed the wrong horse...

To rebuff your point about Android = Samsung, LG alone could probably transition to take over Samsung's place in under a year, if the demand was there. LG isn't that much smaller than Samsung.
-----------------------


This is a total waste of time and money, IMO. It's basically Samsung pretending it's Sony, coming up with its own proprietary system that they think they can push on consumers because of brand recognition. If they even thought of pulling the plug on their Android devices, they'd get a huge dose of reality.

More likely this will become just another product under the Samsung umbrella. Samsung makes Windows phones too. They may put marketing money behind Tizen at some point, and clearly they're trying to make it look as much like Touchwiz-equipped Android as possible, but come on, how stupid do they think consumers are? Microsoft thought they could do something similar with Windows RT -- hey look, it's a tablet that runs Windows!!! Oh wait, no apps - see ya later!

 

[PowerYoga]

Riiiggghhhhtt, I'm a paid shill for Samsung, and I wrote that whitelisted benchmark code for the G4 too.

first rule of the board: put duhri on ignore, have intelligent conversation.

And samsung isn't abandoning android, that's suicidal.

 

[QueBert]

Agreed

People are buying Samsung phones because they're one of the best ANDROID devices. Most people aren't buying Samsung because it's Samsung, it's because it's android. If they left android they'd be screwed. I know HTC is next in line for my business if they continue to use competitive battery sizes. Samsung has circumstantial popularity, but I think they know it so they won't do anything rash.

My neighbor doesn't like Android, according to him he saw Droid phones at Verizon and went with the Samsung Galaxy. I'd bet he represents a ton of people, a smartphone owner who has absolutely no idea what the phone actually is. He told me word for word that his phone's a Galaxy and he likes Galaxies way more than Droids. I tried to explain it to him but he told me that Droid = Motorola.

 

[lothar]

If Samsung shifts to Tizen and discontinues its Android lineup then Tizen will totally eclipse Android. Samsung is Android when it comes to market share and profitability. Samsung leaving Android will mean Android will cease to exist because no other company has the magnitude and marketing power as Samsung/Apple.

Most stupid statement I've heard yet.

If Samsung were to leave Android today, I'd tell them good riddance.
Someone else will take their place. Sony, LG, HTC, ASUS, Motorola, and others will step up to the plate. More profits for everyone.

I use Android purely because of Google's services and also because it isn't a walled garden approach, not because of preference for a particular hardware device maker.
It's the same reason why I won't ever buy a Nokia Lumia despite all the ravings and high quality reviews it received unless Nokia comes to Android.

Even if Samsung abandons Android for Tizen, they'll still have to pay $15/Tizen device in licensing fees to Microsoft. You can't change your OS to get around Microsoft patents. One way or another you will infringe.
I'd love to see Samsung shift to Tizen overnight...All the new Galaxy buyers will ask on their new phones...WTF happened to the Play Store? Where is Facebook/Netflix/YouTube/Instagram/Google Maps app?
"Sorry, the apps on the Play Store aren't compatible with Tizen."

 

[lothar]

If they put it on nice phones for bottom line prices they have a chance with it. Most people have Android phones because they are the cheap smartphones with big screens. The average soccer mom and joe six pack don't know a lot of anything about smartphones. They buy the cheap/free phone that has apps and a big screen. This could compete in that market. Cell buyers like those of us here are the minority.

My guess, just about everything that doesn't have Google as the developer. Granted, those are biggies to be missing but if they got in bed with Microsoft or Nokia for a decent map app it could be overcome for the low end market. Again, my thinking is this is for the $0/$50 crowd. Not those buying the $200-$300 cutting edge phone. The former dumb phone going smartphone crowd is what I see as the target market.

I'm not saying they are going to supplant Android, far from it. I'm just saying I think there is a market they could go after and succeed. If they think they are going to put this on the GS5 and drop Android they are wrong.

There are cheap $0-50 Android phones from ZTE, Huawei, and other Asian manufacturers. There are cheap Nokia Asha and Lumia phones. There are cheap $0-50 Blackberries. There will be cheap $0-50 Firefox phones.
Samsung with Tizen will be competing for the scraps of the market.

If Samsung were to leave the burning Android platform and turn to Tizen exclusively, they'll turn into the next Nokia. I guarantee that.

 

[QueBert]

Great point. Fragmentation on Android today basically means that your phone runs Android 4.1.x or 4.2.x instead of 4.3, and that it may run a custom manufacturer UI skin out of the box. That's it. It will run the same programs.

It could be a bit of an issue with Android 5.0 comes out, but some companies have a good reputation for keeping current, eventually (the Galaxy S II, for example, runs Android 4.1.2 now and basically got all of the Nature UX "improvements" that the S III had). Some companies do not have a good reputation for keeping current (Motorola, HTC, LG (hopefully changing with new products), etc.).

It also means there are games that won't run across all devices, got a Tegra game? Good luck playing that on a phone that's maybe even 3x more powerful. Android fragmentation's very wide spread. I just went the play store to see if I could install NBA Jams on my Nexus 4 yet, nope. Why? Fragmentation. I'm not going to blame EA, this is Androids fault. This game doesn't need Tegra 3 or anything special, it just won't fucking run on my phone. I have 4 games I bought I use to play on my Note that won't install on my Nexus 4. I'm only guessing unless I have the worst luck in the world, there are hundreds more. And I'm not even factoring in the Tegra only games, which nobody outside of an XDA type uber nerd would even understand what Tegra is. And imho the version of Android has fuck to do with it, because those games that don't run on my new phone would run fine on a Note running 4.2.2