I weep for the future of our species.

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,883
2,121
126
Originally posted by: Madwand1
Have you seen kids though? Many or most of them seem to have a sort of affinity to technology.

My son had his own computer at around 4. He's almost entirely self-taught in its usage. He isn't afraid of technology (and technology is no longer afraid of him, hehe). All of his grandparents have their own computers as well.

People like us make technology more accessible; more people get access to it; general technical literacy improves. I think it's hard to argue that computer literacy is in decline -- it's growing a great deal, and at some point, we'll be struggling to keep up with the kids.

People born in the 60's and before seem to have difficulty grasping virtual items. If they can't touch it, they don't get it. Files, folders, icons...it's all magical to them. What's funny is it's all based on old paper file cabinets---and everyone knows how those work.
 

MegaVovaN

Diamond Member
May 20, 2005
4,131
0
0
Originally posted by: Fritzo
"OK, I bought a car, now how do you drive it?"

"Hello, is this Ford? I need to make a left turn- how do I activate the turn signal?"

"GM Support? THIS FREAKIN' CAR YOU SOLD ME GETS REALLY HOT INSIDE!!!!.....WHAT????!!! WHAT IS "AIR CONDITIONING????" WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, SOME KIND OF CAR GENIUS????"

etc etc

:laugh: :thumbsup: :p
 

Babbles

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2001
8,253
14
81
I think the OP is over-reacting. I know this may be a shock to some of you out there, but here it is: Not everybody in society knows the same things as you do.

I work as an analytical research scientist. I would probably wager that most of you consider yourself science savvy, but I am pretty darned sure I can talk about some scientific crap that you guys would be totally clueless on.

Does this mean I am 'smarter' and you guys are 'dumber'? Hell no, I am dumber than a doorknob (voice mail on my Cisco IP phone confuses me) - it's just that we know different things. And, as such, to fault people for not knowing whatever it is that you know is probably hypocritical at best.

I am going to just as well assume that people in real estate probably know more about that topic than the OP - and the rest of us who aren't into real estate.

Some people just don't care to learn things that they do not deem as vital to their life and/or career. Hell in a way those people should count themselves lucky that they don't get sucked into computer stuff. In addition I assume this is a job of yours? If you get paid to provide tech support it seems somewhat silly to complain when you need to support people's technology needs. It's your job.

 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,716
417
126
tbqhwy.com
Originally posted by: Babbles
I think the OP is over-reacting. I know this may be a shock to some of you out there, but here it is: Not everybody in society knows the same things as you do.

I work as an analytical research scientist. I would probably wager that most of you consider yourself science savvy, but I am pretty darned sure I can talk about some scientific crap that you guys would be totally clueless on.

Does this mean I am 'smarter' and you guys are 'dumber'? Hell no, I am dumber than a doorknob (voice mail on my Cisco IP phone confuses me) - it's just that we know different things. And, as such, to fault people for not knowing whatever it is that you know is probably hypocritical at best.

I am going to just as well assume that people in real estate probably know more about that topic than the OP - and the rest of us who aren't into real estate.

Some people just don't care to learn things that they do not deem as vital to their life and/or career. Hell in a way those people should count themselves lucky that they don't get sucked into computer stuff. In addition I assume this is a job of yours? If you get paid to provide tech support it seems somewhat silly to complain when you need to support people's technology needs. It's your job.

i agree with your post, but not knowing how to put a CD in a CDRom drive or that the "POWER" button on the remote turns the device on, comeon thats pretty fucking stupid
 

TehMac

Diamond Member
Aug 18, 2006
9,979
3
71
Originally posted by: Jeff7
[I want to flaunt my elitest attitude around like a douchebag]

So, because you're so brilliant with dinky little bits of hardware, and have to show the less technically inclined of us how to use it, you think you're hot shit and everyone else is retarded?

Originally posted by: Anubisi agree with your post, but not knowing how to put a CD in a CDRom drive or that the "POWER" button on the remote turns the device on, comeon thats pretty fucking stupid
The notion is yeah, but you have to consider, we're all pretty familiar with computers, and a lot of people are afraid of busting a computer or doing something irreversible to it, so they're extra cautious and inconfident.
 

Rachael

Senior member
Mar 16, 2006
363
1
0
Heh, I've had many hilarious tech support moments. One of my favorites- got a call from a professor (I do tech support at my college) saying that usually when she comes in to her office her computer shows her desktop but all she sees is a "DELL" icon floating around (the computer in question is a Dell). I ask her to move her mouse. She called me about a screen saver!
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Originally posted by: Slew Foot
That's because most people who would attend a real estate seminar at your local college are morons.

fixed
Technically it's a university. :)



Originally posted by: TehMac
Originally posted by: Jeff7
[I want to flaunt my elitest attitude around like a douchebag]

So, because you're so brilliant with dinky little bits of hardware, and have to show the less technically inclined of us how to use it, you think you're hot shit and everyone else is retarded?
[I was bored and felt like posting about what this job entailed. On one hand, yes, I'm getting paid for this, but on the other, it increases the university's costs to have me there because people can't use the technology.]


I already think I'm hot shit and everyone else is retarded. This is simply one particular manifestation. :p
 

Sentrosi2121

Platinum Member
Aug 8, 2004
2,568
2
81
Originally posted by: Jeff7
I am providing tech support today for a real estate seminary at my college.
I used to question when the Church would expand into real estate. Now that question is answered.

The future is crap. Not much we can do about it. Not like we can reload the EOS. (Earth Operating System)

 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
It goes to show that from what I belive what most people are doing in regards to not being technical savy is due to only doing things based on memorization. Due to the stigma behind anything technological, most people are afraid to learn for themselves how things work and instead relying on instructions of which to guide them through everything.

This becomes a problem in the form of that without someone holding their hand, people are not willing to pursue doing anything outside of what they memorize or know for fear of breaking or further worsening their situation.

Basically for me, when I first tackled learning everything about computers, it is a big experimentation/playing around on my part, figuring out how components and functions work and applying them. Using basic adapt and learning, i generally can figure things out because most concepts can be applied logically across the board when it concerns these things. Even if I haven't used a piece of software or hardware before, given some basic instructions here and there and the general do's and don'ts by the product manufactures etc, I can quickly figure things out.

Not so with most people. People may have other things occupying their minds to where anything technological, complex, or something where they might have to figure something out on their own is too much work... they will simply write it off to another person they know who can do it and tell them to just "make it work." And unfortunately, it maybe increasing to that type of generality...

The underlying principle is simple, I feel that as a whole society, we are not thinking or actively using our minds period. It might be to a point where we go into a "dark age" of thinking period.

But anyways, that is all just my opinion. It may not apply everywhere but this is what I think.
 

Imaginer

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
8,076
1
0
Originally posted by: Madwand1
Have you seen kids though? Many or most of them seem to have a sort of affinity to technology.

My son had his own computer at around 4. He's almost entirely self-taught in its usage. He isn't afraid of technology (and technology is no longer afraid of him, hehe). All of his grandparents have their own computers as well.

People like us make technology more accessible; more people get access to it; general technical literacy improves. I think it's hard to argue that computer literacy is in decline -- it's growing a great deal, and at some point, we'll be struggling to keep up with the kids.

Funny you mention this. My younger brother (who is about a decade younger than I am) is in a generation where computers are mainstream compared to my time as a kid where personal computers was already starting to just bloom in the forms of the 386 IBM compatables and before that my dad's homebuilt Apple II.

He is less technically inclined on certain things and I don't think he has as much capabilities of willingly "mess around" with things technological, hardware or software related. He will however will get into using things if it is popular to use or easy to use and it appeals to him. Perhaps its motivation or perhaps it is his way of thinking but I know some people's drive to learn the little things such as knowing how to make a single page in the middle of a word document landscape instead of portrait would have most people just asking for the answers instead of learning the interface and logically knowing where to go.

I believe it when there is an emerging generation capable of diving into these things but I hope that they don't go about it as "memorization only" and learn to logically adapt and adjust based on what ie learned, something I feel that is not quite there yet as a society as a whole.
 

LordMorpheus

Diamond Member
Aug 14, 2002
6,871
1
0
Isn't a seminary where you go to become a priest? I know the Catholic Church owns a ton of real estate, but I don't think they have priests buy it ...

I guess a spellchecker wouldn't have caught that.
 

Judgement

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
3,816
0
0
Originally posted by: Anubis
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
George Carlin

qft and relevancy

 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
21,959
4,683
146
I *think* you are safe now, two posts past the cursed arrival.
< burns some incense, muttering offerings to various deities>
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,312
12
81
Originally posted by: Fritzo
"GM Support? THIS FREAKIN' CAR YOU SOLD ME GETS REALLY HOT INSIDE!!!!.....WHAT????!!! WHAT IS "AIR CONDITIONING????" WHAT DO YOU THINK I AM, SOME KIND OF CAR GENIUS????"

LOL!!!

I have to remember that one.

MotionMan
 

MotionMan

Lifer
Jan 11, 2006
17,312
12
81
Originally posted by: Fritzo
People born in the 60's and before seem to have difficulty grasping virtual items. If they can't touch it, they don't get it. Files, folders, icons...it's all magical to them. What's funny is it's all based on old paper file cabinets---and everyone knows how those work.

I do not know what it is, but it is not age or prior experience with computers. I know people in the generation of my parents who are quite proficient at computers (who were not in IT or engineering). Then there are people who are my peers or younger who cannot copy a windows file from one folder to another.

I also think that many of these people are lazy.

The secretaries and attorneys in my office literally use the computer to make their living. However, almost zero of the secretaries or attorneys I have worked with over that past 12 years have knowledge beyond even the most basic tasks (and most of those they do wrong (like spaces instead of tabs)).

And G-d help you if move one of their desktop icons!!!

I am just amazed as to how little they know about the most important tool in their lives. I am even more amazed as to how little motivation they seem to have to learn more.

Also, I remember someone explaining the difference between "computer people" and "non-computer people".

Computer people learn processes and are able to graft what they learned about one process onto other events to make them able to perform tasks they have never done before. Sort of how people who know Windows generally know how to maneuver around almost any Windows program with a general idea where to look for what they need. The more advanced processes you know, the more advanced new process you can do.

Non-computer people learn steps for specific tasks. They know how to open Word, create a document, save it and print it, but they do not take that experience and apply it to using Excel.

An example of this is when someone explains how to do something to "computer people", they take in the "steps" but also analyze the "process" so that they do not need to memorize the steps. Sure they learn the steps, but the steps are just part of the process they have just learned.

When someone explains how to do something to "non-computer people", they try to learn the "steps" without thinking about the "process". That is why they tend to say "This is too complicated" or "That is too many instructions". They try to learn it like a telephone number, digit by digit, so once you get past their short-term capacity (even if they are writing it down), they give up (and you end up with "the blank stare").

I am not sure if that is the best way to explain it, but I think you get the idea.


My father-in-law, a retired CPA, knows how to do things with Excel that I did not even know it could do. That is only because he spent hours and hours looking in the manual (someone looks at the Excel manual!?!) and calling MS. He then has those tasks written down and he follows the instructions step by step. However, when he upgraded Office, some of the steps changed slightly (and I mean slightly) and he was lost. He literally started all over again.

When I went over to his house some time later, even though I had never performed those tasks before, based solely on his prior notes and my innate abilities ;) , I was able to fill in the blanks on all of the remaining tasks in mere moments.

Instead of the ability to fly or see through walls, I can operate a computer. ;)

MotionMan
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,599
19
81
Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
Isn't a seminary where you go to become a priest? I know the Catholic Church owns a ton of real estate, but I don't think they have priests buy it ...

I guess a spellchecker wouldn't have caught that.
There, it's finally corrected.
For those who missed it, Sentrosi2121 has quoted it for posterity farther up. :eek:


I've had to provide tech support for other presentations, usually on Thursday evenings. Some of those people are fairly tech-savvy, but others, not so much. Once again, one handed me a USB thumbdrive and said that she didn't know how to use it, that her daughter said she put the presentation on it. The campus' PCs do have front USB ports, too, so it's not like they'd have to hunt for them on the back of the case.
It amuses me to watch them use the wireless mouse, too. Many of them will be very careful to point it at the screen before trying to use it. It uses radio, and the screen certainly doesn't act as an antenna.:)
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
3,309
0
76
I was recently looking through some standardized school testing results for my area, and saw something on topic which I found striking. In the beginning high-school evaluation (I don't have any later results on this), the single strongest positive factor by far for academic performance in mathematics was access to a home computer. This is presumably somewhat related to the socio/economic status of the caregivers (which also has a positive relationship), but the home computer factor was by itself more strongly correlated than socio/economic status, and computers are cheaper than ever, so much more generally accessible than ever before.

I personally don't understand the correlation, as I don't really see how home computer access per se, unless it's specifically used as such, which I believe would be much rarer than the mere access to a home computer, would aid in basic mathematics learning.

A secondary guess is that such access correlates with caregiver attention to education.

What I'd conclude on this point is that the correlation is so strong that it should not be ignored, and where those of us can help out some of the more technically challenged people have access to computers, we might help not only them but their children.

Edit: There are also very strong correlations for reading and some for writing at earlier grades, though not at the earliest grades. This trend presumably continues, but the data I have at hand is not comprehensive.
 

johnjohn320

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2001
7,572
2
76
Good thing there are idiots like them, right? I mean...that's why you have a job, isn't it?