"I was never fully American. I was Jewish."

[ciproxr]

You made a very strong stance right there. Good for you. Now, do you support the continual protection the US gives to South Korea and Japan, both immensely richer and in a less hostile area than Israel? It's coming out of YOUR tax dollars. You have American troops in Japan and in South Korea, America grants these countries a nuclear umbrella and Japan doesn't even need to have a real military - they got it all covered by uncle Sam.

Im all for stopping all aid and millitary support that burden the american taxpayers

But you still maintain the bullshit about settlements built on your own tax dollars, when the aid Israel receives is for military procurement, limited to US manufacturers on US soil. Did you know Israeli weapon companies relocated entire plants to the US so that they could sell to the IDF competitively (out of US aid)?

Im sure the majoirity of the the employees of Israeli weapon company's are not jewish /sarcasm

Do you even know how much it costs the US to maintain its military presence in Europe, just so that EU countries won't need real armies or go to real wars where people die?

Again im all for removing all US bases from every country, but i must say no other country the United states supports violates humans rights like Israel does, no one!

 

[ciproxr]

Hey, but we're building schools and hospitals in Iraq-with tax dollars. Which is worse?

Thats pretty bad too but at least someone can make a case that we didnt belong there in the first place destroying the country just to get some oil. Iraq is more unstable because of the united states presence and one could make an argument the united states should rebuild what they destroyed.

 

[Noobtastic]

Again im all for removing all US bases from every country, but i must say no other country the United states supports violates humans rights like Israel does, no one!

-Pakistan
-Saudi Arabia
-Egypt
-Jordan
-Iraq
-Afghanistan
-Britain
-France

All, historically, have a much longer and more offensive human rights violation than Israel.

Oh, then theirs our nation, which - comparatively speaking, is Nazi Germany when lined up against Israel.

Virtually all of the money given to Israel isn't money at all. It's just subsidization from the defense industry.

50,000 American jobs.

Plus, Israel provides valuable intelligence and some sweet ass weapons, as well as training for our own military and security within the USA.

But this isn't unique. Israel provides similar services to India.

You have any idea what would happen to oil if we suddenly cut ties with Israel?

Do you prefer paying 9 dollars a gallon for gas, or 3 billion in F-16s and apache helicopters a year?

 

[SamurAchzar]

Im sure the majoirity of the the employees of Israeli weapon company's are not jewish /sarcasm

Are you implying that the Israeli-owned factories in the US predominately employ Jews? If so, would you likewise say Toyota mostly hires Japanese descendants, or that the Mercedes factory in Alabama hires Germans?

And assuming they did in fact hire Jews; aren't these Jews legitimate US citizens who are just as entitled to having a job?

In each and every case, once you strip the layers of logic from the anti-Israeli arguments, you're only left with blind hatred.

 

[Lemon law]

Are you implying that the Israeli-owned factories in the US predominately employ Jews? If so, would you likewise say Toyota mostly hires Japanese descendants, or that the Mercedes factory in Alabama hires Germans?

And assuming they did in fact hire Jews; aren't these Jews legitimate US citizens who are just as entitled to having a job?

In each and every case, once you strip the layers of logic from the anti-Israeli arguments, you're only left with blind hatred.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weeeeeel, I just gotta love this logic on this thread tangent, whoopie Israeli defense plants inside the USA create some small handful of US domestic jobs. But now we must split hairs and ask about possible Israeli possible discriminatory hiring of only politically correct US workers.

Gotta be a somewhat of a tempest in a tea pot compared to all those exponentially larger number of US defense Industry jobs the USA could create, by selling our advance arms to Arab States with the bucks to pay. Oil for weapons has always has a nicer more pragmatic ring to it than oil for food. On that what makes the USA the more bucks criteria, Israel is so out of the running its no contest.

 

[SamurAchzar]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gotta be a somewhat of a tempest in a tea pot compared to all those exponentially larger number of US defense Industry jobs the USA could create, by selling our advance arms to Arab States with the bucks to pay. Oil for weapons has always has a nicer more pragmatic ring to it than oil for food. On that what makes the USA the more bucks criteria, Israel is so out of the running its no contest.

Lets see, from the Wiki page of the F16 (which is by no means a surplus assault rifle), under "Operators":

Bahrain
Belgium
Chile
Denmark
Egypt
Greece
Jordan
Indonesia
Israel
Italy
Morocco
Netherlands
Norway
Oman
Pakistan
Poland
Portugal
Singapore
South Korea
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Thailand
Turkey
United Arab Emirates
United States
Venezuela

Apache helicopter, likewise:

Egypt
Egyptian Air Force ordered 36 AH-64As in 1995 and they were being upgraded to AH-64D configuration in 2005.[121] In 2009 Egypt requested 12 AH-64D Block II Apaches through a Foreign Military Sale.[143][144] Egypt had 35 AH-64Ds in operation as of January 2010.[145]
Greece
Hellenic Army received 20 AH-64As in 1995 and ordered 12 AH-64Ds in 2003.[121] Has 19 AH-64A and 12 AH-64D helicopters in service as of January 2010.[145]
Israel
Israeli Air Force has 37 AH-64As and 11 AH-64Ds in inventory as of January 2010.[145]
Japan
Japan Ground Self-Defense Force has ordered 50 AH-64Ds as of 2005,[121] with 2 AH-64s in use as of January 2010.[145]
Kuwait
Kuwait Air Force had 16 AH-64Ds on order in 2004,[66] with all 16 AH-64Ds in inventory as of January 2010.[145]
Netherlands
Royal Netherlands Air Force received 30 AH-64Ds as of 2005,[121] with 29 AH-64Ds in service as of 2010.[145]
Republic of China (Taiwan)
Republic of China (Taiwan) Army ordered 30 AH-64D Block III helicopters, additional GE T700-701D engines, weapons, and related systems through a Foreign Military Sale in 2008.[146][147]
Saudi Arabia
Royal Saudi Air Force has 12 AH-64As in service as of January 2010.[145]
Singapore
Republic of Singapore Air Force has 18 AH-64Ds in use as of January 2010.[145]
United Arab Emirates
United Arab Emirates Air Force received 30 AH-64As as of 2005.[121] UAE has 12 AH-64As and 14 AH-64Ds in service as of January 2010.[145]
United Kingdom
See AgustaWestland Apache
United States
United States Army has 741 AH-64s (241 AH-64As, and 500 AH-64Ds) in use as of January 2010.[145]
[edit]Specifications (AH-64

Where do you think the Apache Longbows of the Egyptian air force are made? What about the Apaches of the Saudis? And the Jordanians? Armies of Qatar, Kuwait, UAE, who do they buy from? And where do Pakistanis buy their weapons? And for a comic relief, who do you think armed Taliban? At least you know the weapons US sells to Israel won't end up in the hands of guerrilla.
Just as an interesting anecdote, the Egyptian army uses, relatively, more US made weapon system than Israel does (because Israel self-develops a significant part).

Who do you want to sell to next, Gadaffi?

Here here, this clown is talking about American interests. Arms trafficking to
any self-respecting Muslim tyrant douchebag the world has seen, yet he's complaining USA arms Israel.

 

[ciproxr]

Are you implying that the Israeli-owned factories in the US predominately employ Jews? If so, would you likewise say Toyota mostly hires Japanese descendants, or that the Mercedes factory in Alabama hires Germans?

And assuming they did in fact hire Jews; aren't these Jews legitimate US citizens who are just as entitled to having a job?

In each and every case, once you strip the layers of logic from the anti-Israeli arguments, you're only left with blind hatred.

i am implying that a lot Jewish owned business's employee mostly jews at least not to the same level

I dont see the same trend with other ethnicity's.

Also every united states citizen should be entitled to a job but not based off their ethnic background but based on their qualifications.

I dont hate jews, i treat them just like everyone else, the problem is that's not good enough for some of you.

 

[ciproxr]

-Pakistan
-Saudi Arabia
-Egypt
-Jordan
-Iraq
-Afghanistan
-Britain
-France

All, historically, have a much longer and more offensive human rights violation than Israel.

Oh, then theirs our nation, which - comparatively speaking, is Nazi Germany when lined up against Israel.

Virtually all of the money given to Israel isn't money at all. It's just subsidization from the defense industry.

50,000 American jobs.

Plus, Israel provides valuable intelligence and some sweet ass weapons, as well as training for our own military and security within the USA.

But this isn't unique. Israel provides similar services to India.

You have any idea what would happen to oil if we suddenly cut ties with Israel?

Do you prefer paying 9 dollars a gallon for gas, or 3 billion in F-16s and apache helicopters a year?

This is the problem you are going far back as 300 years, wheres as im talking in the last 10 years.you can bring up events that happened 100 years ago or we can talk about whats still happening in the 21st century. Why do you think europe and the united states are dropping support for israel ? I even read not to long ago that Israel has been harvesting organs from Palestinians prisoners but hey lets give Israel military aid to commit atrocities because we've done it in the past.

 

[Noobtastic]

This is the problem you are going far back as 300 years, wheres as im talking in the last 10 years.you can bring up events that happened 100 years ago or we can talk about whats still happening in the 21st century. Why do you think europe and the united states are dropping support for israel ? I even read not to long ago that Israel has been harvesting organs from Palestinians prisoners but hey lets give Israel military aid to commit atrocities because we've done it in the past.

You said Israel commits more human rights violations than all our other allies, this is patently false.

So either strike the comment or fuck off.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Again im all for removing all US bases from every country, but i must say no other country the United states supports violates humans rights like Israel does, no one!

You are a blabbering idot with no proof to back up your assinine opinion......

 

[ciproxr]

You said Israel commits more human rights violations than all our other allies, this is patently false.

So either strike the comment or fuck off.

its true, in the past 10 years at least . are you jewish by the way ? My jewdar is going off the roof in this thread. If you are, its hard to take you seriously when there's the motive for personal gain.

 

[ciproxr]

You are a blabbering idot with no proof to back up your assinine opinion......

Proof has been posted a million times and people like you just deny it, just like proof that Palestine existed.

you're the idiot by the way, i don't think you even spelled idiot right.

heres a few articles from a few days ago:


Israeli Human Rights Violations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/SKEA-84JHCG?OpenDocument

Human Rights Groups Warn of New Powers for Israel
‎http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world/middleeast/12mideast.html

Independent UN rights expert warns Israeli orders may breach Geneva Convention
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34406&Cr=&Cr1=

Human rights group issues report on Palestinian prisoners' reality in Israeli jails
http://www.paltelegraph.com/palesti...alestinian-prisoners-reality-in-israeli-jails

and you guys want to give them more weapons ?

 

[JEDIYoda]

its true, in the past 10 years at least . are you jewish by the way ? My jewdar is going off the roof in this thread. If you are, its hard to take you seriously when there's the motive for personal gain.

back up what you say with a link or stfu...please...

 

[ciproxr]

back up what you say with a link or stfu...please...

did u read any of the links i posted ?

 

[JEDIYoda]

Proof has been posted a million times and people like you just deny it, just like proof that Palestine existed.

you're the idiot by the way, i don't think you even spelled idiot right.

heres a few articles from a few days ago:


Israeli Human Rights Violations in the Occupied Palestinian Territory
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/SKEA-84JHCG?OpenDocument

Human Rights Groups Warn of New Powers for Israel
‎http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/world/middleeast/12mideast.html

Independent UN rights expert warns Israeli orders may breach Geneva Convention
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34406&Cr=&Cr1=

Human rights group issues report on Palestinian prisoners' reality in Israeli jails
http://www.paltelegraph.com/palesti...alestinian-prisoners-reality-in-israeli-jails

and you guys want to give them more weapons ?

hahaha...nice try but no cigar.....
Human rights violations...according to who???
Define the words-- Human Right`s Violation...in such a way that all concerned parties agree...you can`t!
Hell a cop telling you you can`t do something could be defined as a human rights violation....rofl.....
The UN..yeah thats a joke and a half...the UN is the same group that had peacekeeppers who were allowing Suicide bombers into Israel....

let`s see the NY Times article is a joke...these groups call anything the Israeli`s do a human righst violation...sounds just and non biased to me.....rofl.......

Professor Richard falk is a trouble maker who has no buisness being called a special Human Right`s Envoy...who is totally biased against Israel....go figure...

Then you have the balls to use the Palestinian Telegragh as a link for proof....rofl......

If the best you can do to critisize somebody spelling you need to crawl back under the rock you came from....

 

[SandEagle]

this thread sucks. OP is a dumbshit




oh wait....

 

[ciproxr]

hahaha...nice try but no cigar.....
Human rights violations...according to who???
Define the words-- Human Right`s Violation...in such a way that all concerned parties agree...you can`t!
Hell a cop telling you you can`t do something could be defined as a human rights violation....rofl.....
The UN..yeah thats a joke and a half...the UN is the same group that had peacekeeppers who were allowing Suicide bombers into Israel....

let`s see the NY Times article is a joke...these groups call anything the Israeli`s do a human righst violation...sounds just and non biased to me.....rofl.......

Professor Richard falk is a trouble maker who has no buisness being called a special Human Right`s Envoy...who is totally biased against Israel....go figure...

Then you have the balls to use the Palestinian Telegragh as a link for proof....rofl......

If the best you can do to critisize somebody spelling you need to crawl back under the rock you came from....

This is the problem, no matter what someone post's you will dispute it because it does not suit you.

Europe and the united states are ending their support,so just shut up and stop bitching, if you want to send military aid to israel, do it your self.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Europe and the united states are ending their support,so just shut up and stop bitching, if you want to send military aid to israel, do it your self.

You are a total douche when it comes to israel.
Europe and the US are not ending their support and it`s really sad that you think so....
It`s obvious you have idea what you are talking about.
To even think that Europe and the US are ending their support is wishfull thinking for somebody like you who relishes the demise of Israel....

Yet if israel has to it can and is perfectly able to go it alone.....
In fact the sad thing is morons like you do not understand that the middle east would be a totally different place had isarael not been holding back the past few years militarily......
You have no idea what the word -- Survival entails and as such you wouldn`t wish a unrestrained Israeli Military on the middle east..trust me...it`s wack jobs like you who have no clue...

shalom!!
לבריאות

 

[JEDIYoda]

This is the problem, no matter what someone post's you will dispute it because it does not suit you.

Why because you believe your right....now thats classic!!

 

[DanDaManJC]

Why because you believe your right....now thats classic!!

it's pretty obvious he posted some links. go after their validity of the facts, not the man or the association perpetrating the facts. maybe they are fubar BS, but so far you haven't shown otherwise.

there's no doubt there's going to be a pro-Palestine bias from a Palestinian paper, but what makes the American media/pro Israel media any more reliable?

 

[JEDIYoda]

it's pretty obvious he posted some links. go after their validity of the facts, not the man or the association perpetrating the facts. maybe they are fubar BS, but so far you haven't shown otherwise.

there's no doubt there's going to be a pro-Palestine bias from a Palestinian paper, but what makes the American media/pro Israel media any more reliable?

actually I have discredited his links..only a moron would not see the obvious discreditation!

 

[Ancalagon44]

actually I have discredited his links..only a moron would not see the obvious discreditation!

You said you dont agree with his sources, not that they were discredited.

The UN and the NY Times are pretty trust worthy, but then you probably watch Faux News.

 

[Noobtastic]

its true, in the past 10 years at least . are you jewish by the way ? My jewdar is going off the roof in this thread. If you are, its hard to take you seriously when there's the motive for personal gain.

"Its true."

While, excellent debating skills. I proved it is patently untrue.

Whether I am Jewish or not is irrelevant.

Why should that matter? Does that somehow make what I say less credible and legitimate?

You are obviously a bigot.

The UN and the NY Times are pretty trust worthy, but then you probably watch Faux News.

This UN?

 

[DanDaManJC]

There's BS and bias in everything.

You can't just selectively call bullshit on sources every time someone actually comes up with some facts.

 

[SamurAchzar]

There's BS and bias in everything.

You can't just selectively call bullshit on sources every time someone actually comes up with some facts.

I find it amusing some people are accusing the US press of Israeli bias. It's the same bias the same media would have towards Britain, or any other Western country, if it was in a war with the Arabs.

Don't forget for a moment that while the Palestinians are the trendy pet of the do-gooders in the West, the only thing in discussion here is their ability to self-govern so they can kill and oppress each other without having Israeli troops around. It's not like they'll become Switzerland. So why won't there be, as you say, "bias"?