I was considering a mac pro until...

[stryder256]

I found out that upgrading from 2 GBs to 8 GBs of "800MHz DDR2 fully buffered ECC memory" adds $1500!

To TOP that off... 32 GB adds $9100!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Am I crazy... or is this highway robbery!?

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: stryder256
Am I crazy...

Only if you pay that much for memory. Is that pricing direct from Apple?

 

[Nothinman]

Yea, because it's not like you can buy memory for the machine from somewhere else...

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Yea, because it's not like you can buy memory for the machine from somewhere else...

Isn't it simply a DDR2-800 FBDIMM? Or 667s but an 800 should down clock I would think.

 

[Yellowbeard]

I just checked with our MAC guy and he said we have 667s and 800s due out very soon. Other manufacturers have this memory out as well. Don't quote me on this as parts and IC pricing may force changes. But, 667 2 x 1gb kits should be under $200 and a 2 x 2gb well under $300. So, worst case $600 gets you 8gb and $2400 gets you 32gb.

 

[ghost recon88]

Originally posted by: Yellowbeard

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Yea, because it's not like you can buy memory for the machine from somewhere else...

Isn't it simply a DDR2-800 FBDIMM? Or 667s but an 800 should down clock I would think.

He was being sarcastic. Here's a very reliable site with good pricing on 800MHz FBDIMMS, http://www.memorysuppliers.com/2gbpc80dd240.html

 

[taltamir]

MacOSX is the most expensive OS ever. Because it has DRM preventing it from installing on any hardware, so apple jacks the price on the hardware sky high.

Your obersvation is correct and many other people have seen it. Apple just charges hundreds of percent premium for certain parts. The CPU and stuff are soldered to the motherboard so you can upgrade as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. and there is a good chance upgrading your ram yourself voids your warranty (not sure about that one, but I wouldn't doubt it)... heck you can't even replace the BATTERY on an ipod.

Apple rips you off. Thats the bottom line. This is probably why people cracked the DRM on MacOSX which allows them to install it on any X86 (or x86_64bit) machine. The problem with that is that it is illegal in the USA. But depending on your country, it might be legal for you to bypass said DRM and install your legally purchased macosX on non apple hardware.

Otherwise just buy a PC.

 

[crazycarl]

Yeah apple rips you off on memory. Just buy 3rd party, it won't void your warranty or anything.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir
MacOSX is the most expensive OS ever. Because it has DRM preventing it from installing on any hardware, so apple jacks the price on the hardware sky high.

Your obersvation is correct and many other people have seen it. Apple just charges hundreds of percent premium for certain parts. The CPU and stuff are soldered to the motherboard so you can upgrade as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. and there is a good chance upgrading your ram yourself voids your warranty (not sure about that one, but I wouldn't doubt it)... heck you can't even replace the BATTERY on an ipod.

Apple rips you off. Thats the bottom line. This is probably why people cracked the DRM on MacOSX which allows them to install it on any X86 (or x86_64bit) machine. The problem with that is that it is illegal in the USA. But depending on your country, it might be legal for you to bypass said DRM and install your legally purchased macosX on non apple hardware.

Otherwise just buy a PC.

DRM preventing it from installing on any hardware is a unique way of putting it. They have a right to have you buy a Mac to run it on -- there's nothing odd or especially unique about that.

Price sky high is debatable. They aren't cheap, but they aren't as pricey as they were, either, and people can now afford them.

RAM can be freely upgraded; please don't spread FUD. It's the same as any and every other vendor - you can upgrade anything, but if you break it, they won't honor the warranty on whatever part you broke.

Anyone can replace the battery on an iPod. It takes about 20 minutes and you need a special tool to do so, and anyone selling iPod batteries will give you the tool.

You're sorely misinformed on Mac hardware.

 

[taltamir]

I am pretty sure most OEMs wouldnt honor the warranty if you upgrade the ram and the video card breaks. Thats the whole point of chasis intrusion software. You trigger chasis intrusion, you void your warranty. I also said that I don't know if apple takes that hardline stance. But if they DO its better to find out ahead of time.
And ram isn't the only thing they rip you off on. Check hard drives, video cards, etc. They all cost several times then in retailers. 250$ for a 500GB HDD? they cost 90$! 550$ for a 1TB? they cost 230$
Heck they charge you 100$ for a (super multi, aka, it does DVD-RAM as well) DVD burner! those cost 25$ at any etailer.
Heck their shitty 1 button mouse costs 70$

The thing to note is that I am not even comparing THEIR cost, they don't specificy manufacturer, they get some generic manufacturer to provide it to them at probably half the etailer price. And then sell it to you at 2.5 to 5 times the cost anywhere else. That is expensive! add to that the BASE cost of the system and you have a recipe for ripoff.

It IS DRM, there is nothing unique about it, its a simple TPM chip that the software checks for. If it is not there it doesn't install, unless you have cracked the software check to ignore it, and then it can install on a non apple computer. The hardware IS identical.
Sure apple has the right to do it, and microsoft has the right to exploit its market dominance, and music labels have the right to include DRM on THEIR CDs that you pay to buy. And so on...
But some people, sometimes individuals, sometimes government, disagree about that notion and challenge those rights. This is a whole can of worms argument that has absolutely NOTHING To do with that FACT That apple uses DRM to prevent you from installing macosx on other computers. Prior to the intel macs it was impossible cause mac was compiled for the powerPC chip. Now it is fully x86 architecture and it is 100% compatible with hardware, remove the DRM and it works on a PC.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir
I am pretty sure most OEMs wouldnt honor the warranty if you upgrade the ram and the video card breaks. Thats the whole point of chasis intrusion software. You trigger chasis intrusion, you void your warranty.

No, you don't. You only void the part of the warranty if you break something. It's very clear cut; please stop trying to spread FUD. That's like Ford dishonoring your braking system warranty if you replace your car stereo - that's absurd.

I also said that I don't know if apple takes that hardline stance. But if they DO its better to find out ahead of time.

They don't. So now you know.

And ram isn't the only thing they rip you off on. Check hard drives, video cards, etc. They all cost several times then in retailers. 250$ for a 500GB HDD? they cost 90$! 550$ for a 1TB? they cost 230$
Heck they charge you 100$ for a DVD burner! those cost 25$ at any etailer.

Got news for ya - Dell, HP, and every other vendor (HP doesn't do this AS badly) does exactly the same thing. So stop picking on Apple - they're not doing anything wrong. And if you want to add RAM, buy it at NewEgg and slap it in.

The thing to note is that I am not even comparing THEIR cost, they don't specificy manufacturer, they get some generic manufacturer to provide it to them at probably half the etailer price. And then sell it to you at 2.5 to 5 times the cost anywhere else. That is expensive! add to that the BASE cost of the system and you have a recipe for ripoff.

That's called "Capitalism" and Dell does it too. Are you being serious in any of this?

It IS DRM, there is nothing unique about it, its a simple TPM chip that the software checks for. If it is not there it doesn't install, unless you have cracked the software check to ignore it, and then it can install on a non apple computer. The hard IS identical.
Sure apple has the right to do it, and microsoft has the right to exploit its market dominance, and music labels have the right to include DRM on THEIR CDs that you pay to buy. And so on...
But some people, sometimes individuals, sometimes government, disagree about that notion and challenge those rights. This is a whole can of worms argument that has absolutely NOTHING To do with that FACT That apple uses DRM to prevent you from installing macosx on other computers. Prior to the intel macs it was impossible cause mac was compiled for the powerPC chip. Now it is fully x86 architecture and it is 100% compatible with hardware, remove the DRM and it works on a PC.

Yes, but Apple gets the lion's share of their profit from the hardware, not the MacOS software upgrades, so I think it is ethical and natural for them to force MacOS to only run on their hardware.

 

[taltamir]

I am pretty sure most OEMs wouldnt honor the warranty if you upgrade the ram and the video card breaks. Thats the whole point of chasis intrusion software. You trigger chasis intrusion, you void your warranty.

No, you don't. You only void the part of the warranty if you break something. It's very clear cut; please stop trying to spread FUD. That's like Ford dishonoring your braking system warranty if you replace your car stereo - that's absurd.

Firstly, I stated he SHOULD CHECK IT OUT. not that it is fact, cause I am not certain. So stop it with the FUD this FUD that accusations.
Second, the reason ford can't do that ANYMORE is because it is ILLEGAL for a car company to void your warranty if you get service or upgrades by "certified third party vendors". I don't about YOU PERSONALLY but I am not certified. But that law is why car garages exist. Have you consulted a lawyer (for computers that cost 10+k dollars that is a small price to pay) about the issue?

Got news for ya - Dell, HP, and every other vendor (HP doesn't do this AS badly) does exactly the same thing. So stop picking on Apple - they're not doing anything wrong. And if you want to add RAM, buy it at NewEgg and slap it in.

Not true, while they all charge you more then the cost at the store, they dont charge NEARLY as much as apple, if apple charges 5x, then they charge 3x. If apple charges 2x, then they charge 1.5x.
And that is dell and HP. smaller ones charge even less. Apple has the highest markup by far.
And identically configured PC from HP, Dell, etc will cost less then half then the apple. I CHECKED!

Yes, but Apple gets the lion's share of their profit from the hardware, not the MacOS software upgrades, so I think it is ethical and natural for them to force MacOS to only run on their hardware.

I want to see what you said if microsoft started DRMing their OS to only work on hardware they sold, and charged you several times market price to buy that hardware. With all the micro upgrades they already charge more then anyone else for their OS. Microsoft releases service packs for free for years after the fact. And most other companies, like sun, etc, work with open source oses or even open source their OS (opensolaris for example) and then sell people support contracts.

That's called "Capitalism" and Dell does it too. Are you being serious in any of this?

You know what else is capitalism? not buying a 5000$ mac because you can buy the same exact hardware for 2500$ at any other manufacturer, or buy the hardware and build it yourself for 1200$. Or circumvent the DRM and install MacOSX on such a machine.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Firstly, I stated he SHOULD CHECK IT OUT. not that it is fact, cause I am not certain. So stop it with the FUD this FUD that accusations.
Second, the reason ford can't do that ANYMORE is because it is ILLEGAL for a car company to void your warranty if you get service or upgrades by "certified third party vendors". I don't about YOU PERSONALLY but I am not certified. But that law is why car garages exist. Have you consulted a lawyer (for computers that cost 10+k dollars that is a small price to pay) about the issue?

There is no kind way to say this. You are absolutely wrong. Most of the RAM vendors have a page much like this one, which talks of the Magnesun-Moss Act. I suggest you read up on it (or the abridged version I linked here (http://www.kingston.com/company/MagMoss_QA.asp is one link; google for a million more from all the RAM vendors and more OEM providers.)

Not true, while they all charge you more then the cost at the store, they dont charge NEARLY as much as apple, if apple charges 5x, then they charge 3x. If apple charges 2x, then they charge 1.5x.
And that is dell and HP. smaller ones charge even less. Apple has the highest markup by far.

Then don't buy from Apple. Do it yourself. For most Mac machines (except Macbook Pro) it's trivial.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Yes, but Apple gets the lion's share of their profit from the hardware, not the MacOS software upgrades, so I think it is ethical and natural for them to force MacOS to only run on their hardware.

I want to see what you said if microsoft started DRMing their OS to only work on hardware they sold, and charged you several times market price to buy that hardware. With all the micro upgrades they already charge more then anyone else for their OS. Microsoft releases service packs for free for years after the fact. And most other companies, like sun, etc, work with open source oses or even open source their OS (opensolaris for example) and then sell people support contracts.

(I'm looking for a problem with this - Apple charges, people willingly pay - where, exactly, is the problem again?)

That's called "Capitalism" and Dell does it too. Are you being serious in any of this?

You know what else is capitalism? not buying a 5000$ mac because you can buy the same exact hardware for 2500$ at any other manufacturer, or buy the hardware and build it yourself for 1200$. Or circumvent the DRM and install MacOSX on such a machine.

Sure - who cares about piracy and giving people what they're owed, after all?

 

[taltamir]

There is no kind way to say this. You are absolutely wrong. Most of the RAM vendors have a page much like this one, which talks of the Magnesun-Moss Act. I suggest you read up on it (or the abridged version I linked here (http://www.kingston.com/company/MagMoss_QA.asp is one link; google for a million more from all the RAM vendors and more OEM providers.)

You just proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. if there is a LAW that makes it illegal then that means it was a real problem until the law occurred. It just so happens that the same law is vague enough to protect ram as well as cars. My concert was a serious one. This is a pure case of misdirection. They TELL you it voids your warranty, but they are lying. However, the question remains, can you install it YOURSELF, or do you need a certified technician to do so.

Then don't buy from Apple. Do it yourself. For most Mac machines (except Macbook Pro) it's trivial.

do what myself?

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir
There is no kind way to say this. You are absolutely wrong. Most of the RAM vendors have a page much like this one, which talks of the Magnesun-Moss Act. I suggest you read up on it (or the abridged version I linked here (http://www.kingston.com/company/MagMoss_QA.asp is one link; google for a million more from all the RAM vendors and more OEM providers.)

You just proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. if there is a LAW that makes it illegal then that means it was a real problem until the law occurred. It just so happens that the same law is vague enough to protect ram as well as cars.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here, but your original suggestion that people couldn't modify their own computers to add RAM and other parts is absurd, and proven so by US law. Did you even read the link I gave you?

Then don't buy from Apple. Do it yourself. For most Mac machines (except Macbook Pro) it's trivial.

do what myself?

Add RAM and a hard drive.

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir

You just proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. if there is a LAW that makes it illegal then that means it was a real problem until the law occurred. It just so happens that the same law is vague enough to protect ram as well as cars. My concert was a serious one. This is a pure case of misdirection. They TELL you it voids your warranty, but they are lying. However, the question remains, can you install it YOURSELF, or do you need a certified technician to do so.

(Clearly you didn't bother to read the link. Read it.)

 

[taltamir]

giving people what they are due eh? Well, the thing is, if you open a mac you will see familiar names, seagate, hitachi, lite-on, western digital, etc...
Apple isn't being forthcoming here and telling you "we are gonna charge you 1000$ for our OS, +50% to 150% of the cost of your hardware, cause you can afford it". They are telling you their OS is a set price, but DRM it to only work with hardware they sell, and just tack on a huge markup on hardware, in the order of several hundred percent. That is gross misdirection on their part.
You buy solaris, linux, unix, or windows, it is a SET PRICE for the software, and it works with any hardware. No matter how rich you are, or how much hardware you want to buy. Mac on the other hand is using underhanded techniques.

Just like they make it impossible to swap the battery on an ipod so you buy a new one every year. Just like they make the most agressive DRM for their music so you are locked in to their products. Etc etc. People rip on microsoft but microsoft is a cute little puppy compared to apple. Apple just gets away with it cause they have a small market share. But due to their insane markups they are milking much more money from that market share. If you WANT To be a MacDrone and be HAPPY when they rip you off, enjoy. Me, I would stick to getting my money's worth and flat pricing no matter how much money I have.

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: dclive

Originally posted by: taltamir

You just proved me ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. if there is a LAW that makes it illegal then that means it was a real problem until the law occurred. It just so happens that the same law is vague enough to protect ram as well as cars. My concert was a serious one. This is a pure case of misdirection. They TELL you it voids your warranty, but they are lying. However, the question remains, can you install it YOURSELF, or do you need a certified technician to do so.

(Clearly you didn't bother to read the link. Read it.)

I have, the "you can do it yourself" part there seems a bit iffy for me. I want to see the WHOLE text of the law... and even then, laws can be poorly written and can be contested or flat out not adhered to, which requires you to sue. If apple DOES argue you damaged the hard drive while installing the ram and they are not gonna honor the warranty, do you have the deep pockets to sue them?

Heck the RIAA is sending people letters that say "pay us 5000$ or we sue you"...

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir
giving people what they are due eh? Well, the thing is, if you open a mac you will see familiar names, seagate, hitachi, lite-on, western digital, etc...
Apple isn't being forthcoming here and telling you "we are gonna charge you 1000$ for our OS, +50% to 150% of the cost of your hardware, cause you can afford it". They are telling you their OS is a set price, but DRM it to only work with hardware they sell, and just tack on a huge markup on hardware, in the order of several hundred percent. That is gross misdirection on their part.
You buy solaris, linux, unix, or windows, it is a SET PRICE for the software, and it works with any hardware. No matter how rich you are, or how much hardware you want to buy. Mac on the other hand is using underhanded techniques.

Just like they make it impossible to swap the battery on an ipod so you buy a new one every year. Just like they make the most agressive DRM for their music so you are locked in to their products. Etc etc. People rip on microsoft but microsoft is a cute little puppy compared to apple. Apple just gets away with it cause they have a small market share. But due to their insane markups they are milking much more money from that market share. If you WANT To be a MacDrone and be HAPPY when they rip you off, enjoy. Me, I would stick to getting my money's worth and flat pricing no matter how much money I have.

Clearly you aren't familiar with capitalism. Apple charges what the market will bear. The fact that they can charge a premium and routinely make money (and have a growing market penetration) means there are mountains of people that believe Apple is worth that higher price.

To refute that, you are attempting to condone software piracy.

You aren't winning.

(As I've already told you, you can easily swap the battery on an iPod. It requires a small tool that anyone selling a battery will give you.)

 

[dclive]

Originally posted by: taltamir

I have, the "you can do it yourself" part there seems a bit iffy for me. I want to see the WHOLE text of the law... and even then, laws can be poorly written and can be contested or flat out not adhered to, which requires you to sue. If apple DOES argue you damaged the hard drive while installing the ram and they are not gonna honor the warranty, do you have the deep pockets to sue them?

Heck the RIAA is sending people letters that say "pay us 5000$ or we sue you"...

The above is pure fearmongering. Please stop it. Apple even posts on their website directions for installing RAM. If they didn't want people installing RAM, one would think they wouldn't post directions (and have a handy door to replace the RAM and screws to unscrew the cover..), right?

You're being silly.

 

[taltamir]

1. I never said you shouldn't buy macOSX when you intend to install it on a self built PC. In fact, I also didn't say you should do it at ALL, i said some people do so. I on the other hand simple choose to use different software.
2. Good for those "apple users". I DO understand capitalism, capitalism is why I and 90%+ of the market choose NOT to buy a mac. I said its your choice. Capitalism is all about individual choice. You have a choice. I have a choice.
3. Only the most ignorant and infantile people are trying to "win" when they discuss something with someone. Adults try to LEARN or TEACH. I learned some things, I taught some things, my time was well spent.

 

[dclive]

<edited... glad I could help help with the M-Moss act & warranties>

 

[Baked]

When we graded the PowerPC and iMac memories at work, I got it thru Crucial.com. Cheaper and fully compatible. In fact, PowerPCs use the same Micron memory. In regards to warranty, just stick the original memories in when you send it in for repair.

 

[Yellowbeard]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Yea, because it's not like you can buy memory for the machine from somewhere else...

LOL...oooops.....missed the sarcasm.

EDIT: I found this word and it seems to apply to this situation.

8. Sarchasm : The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and theperson who doesn't get it.