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I want YOU to fold Team Anandtech to the top spot!

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The Outlook problem is directly related to offline folder support. Mike Ober talked about it in a thread not too long ago. If you disable offline folder support (or if you never have it on in the first place) then there is no problem. I have outlook 2000 on some of my machines and there is no delay.
 
i know the cli client for windows runs faster than the screensaver. Does the same hold true for folding@home? Basically which is faster: cli, gui with no screensaver, screensaver?
 
And, to top off dartblazer's question, what kind of times can I expect for my AMD XP1800+ running XP Pro, and for a Dual P3-550 setup running a 2.4.19 linux kernel?
 


<< "So, I ask all of you Anandtechers, please evaluate the worthiness of the project you are running on your PC" -- Itm

I'm sorry but I think that statement is quite out of line. Maybe you aren't aware but it's considered poor etiquete to attempt to recruit members from one project to another. Just because you feel F@H is more "worthy" than the other DC projects does not mean everyone feels that way and while you're entitled to your opinion it doesn't make it right. My family has a history of cancer and I considered switching to F@H after my aunt's death but several other TA members mentioned the fact that IBM's Blue Gene was designed for folding proteins and can do far more than the F@H DC project.
[/i] >>



I would strongly argue that it is NOT "poor etiquete" (sic) to attempt to recruit members from one project to another. If you guys are so freaking dainty that you can't handle the MERE SUGGESTION to "evaluate the worthiness" of your project, it's most likely because you are more interested in the STATISTICS of your project, than the goals of the project itself.

The cold hard fact is this: All projects are NOT created equal. Indeed, it is up to all of us to EVALUATE each project's worthiness using our own value judgements, which is presicely what I was asking people to do. If you VALUE "searching" for ET more than curing CANCER, ALZHEIMER'S, or other GENETIC DISEASES, then by all means, knock yourselves out! Personally, I don't value the one in a kajillion chance of finding ET over health related projects, and have made my position known. SO SUE ME.

Indeed, as I mentioned in all my messages, I am open to debate on what is more worthy, like Folding@Home, the UD Cancer project, Distributed Folding, Genomics, whatever! I am glad you brought up the link about the Blue Gene program, because that may make me want to switch to something that is MEANINGFUL, if indeed F@H is not worthy.

Quite frankly, because I'm NOT fully interested in how many "points" my PC can rack up, as many of you are, I WANT to hear people's opinions on what project is better than another, and why. DEFEND your project and tell me how your it's going to make the world a better place, relative to other projects, and don't hide behind a lame "it's not nice to convince people one project is better than another" stance.

In conclusion: "I ask all of you Anandtechers, please evaluate the worthiness of the project you are running on your PC."

Whoops! There I go again. Those sure are fighting words!
 
mgpaulus.... The times of completing WU's for F@H are all different due to the complixity of the protien. Some protiens I can crunch in 4 hours or less on a P4 1.9 however some protiens take 7 or 8 hours on the same machine.

I have not timed each way of running F@H however I run one client in CLI (as a service on XP), and all others using the GUI. None on screen saver. I have heard that the screen saver is quite slow. So I would suggest running the GUI version or the CLI version.

There is a cool program called KDFold Monitor that lets me watch the progress of the crunching on all my machines. It also compiles stats of each protien folded and has html output built in. You can get that program Here

Let me know if anyone has questions on setting KDFold up... Just make sure you point it to the WORKING directory on each box and that you have your network permissions set correctly.
 


<< I would strongly argue that it is NOT "poor etiquete" (sic) to attempt to recruit members from one project to another. If you guys are so freaking dainty that you can't handle the MERE SUGGESTION to "evaluate the worthiness" of your project, it's most likely because you are more interested in the STATISTICS of your project, than the goals of the project itself. >>



So now my project is not only unworthy of MY pc time, but I am a "dainty" person who is only concerned with statistics. You know nothing of me and what I do. I am not the type of person who trumpets what I do for charity because I feel charity should be done not for personal recognition but because it is the right thing to do. So since you know nothing about me and what I do you should not make assumptions.

Why don't you stop insulting people and their projects and try to be positive by telling people why they should run folding rather than knocking the other projects????



<< The cold hard fact is this: All projects are NOT created equal. Indeed, it is up to all of us to EVALUATE each project's worthiness using our own value judgements, which is presicely what I was asking people to do. If you VALUE "searching" for ET more than curing CANCER, ALZHEIMER'S, or other GENETIC DISEASES, then by all means, knock yourselves out! Personally, I don't value the one in a kajillion chance of finding ET over health related projects, and have made my position known. SO SUE ME. >>



It is not a fact. There has been no proof that one project is more worthy than another. DC is so new we don't really know how effective any of this is. It is YOUR opinion. Just because you call it a stone cold fact doesn't make it anymore true than me saying donkeys can fly.

All we "dainty" stats obsessed people have asked is that you keep other projects out of your recruiting message. There is a better way to recruit. Look at the ECCp team. They politely asked if people from Seti could lend a hand in helping to defend their position in the rankings without preaching to me that their project was more worthy. I had a choice I could run folding or I could run ECCp on a few computers that I was about to assimilate. I was leaning towards folding personally but I also saw that the ECCp team was losing ground while the folding team was surging forward. I felt I could devote the resources to ECCp now and since the project is probably going to end within a year I could then move those resources to another project.

I have had plans all along to move resources into our folding team, but you have put a very bad taste in my mouth. I will still do it, but when I do it will be inspite of your recruiting tactics not because of them.



<< Indeed, as I mentioned in all my messages, I am open to debate on what is more worthy, like Folding@Home, the UD Cancer project, Distributed Folding, Genomics, whatever! I am glad you brought up the link about the Blue Gene program, because that may make me want to switch to something that is MEANINGFUL, if indeed F@H is not worthy. >>



Your willingness to debate is not the question. There is no need to debate. If your project is worthy then people will join it based on it's merits. You should be able to do this without slighting the other projects.



<< Quite frankly, because I'm NOT fully interested in how many "points" my PC can rack up, as many of you are, I WANT to hear people's opinions on what project is better than another, and why. DEFEND your project and tell me how your it's going to make the world a better place, relative to other projects, and don't hide behind a lame "it's not nice to convince people one project is better than another" stance. >>



You may find it lame, but I don't pretend to know a person's reasons for running a project they choose. Tell people why your project is great and let them decide if they want to run it. You don't have to be a mudslinging politician.
 
Crazee... it would be great if you could donate some resources to the F@H project after you have helped out ECCP. It would sure help boost TeamAnandTech!

What... donkeys CANT fly??
 
Crazee, et. al., I take great care and precision in the words I write, and yet you choose to read them imprecisely, so I feel that going through each of your misunderstandings is just futile.

I believe, however, I will start a new thread to have real debate on all projects and what people think about their worthiness.

In conclusion: "I ask all of you Anandtechers, please evaluate the worthiness of the project you are running on your PC."
 
ltm: Apparently you have not been a member of a Team Anandtech distributed computing team for very long. Despite your opinion, it is considered poor etiquette to put down other DC projects and attempt to recruit members away from other TA DC projects. In fact, it's even wrong to attempt to recruit members away from other teams. It's an unwritten rule. If you don't believe me just ask anyone who's been here a while.

You might think you're doing the F@H project some good but IMO you're doing the exact opposite.
 
Itm: I don't think any of us misinterpret or misunderstand you. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we don't understand what you're saying.

Go ahead and start a thread like that and see how fast you get flamed. I'd guess it will be locked within an hour.
 
Well, I've never run Folding, and as long as there's a time-limit I'll never run it...

Now, for the priority-problem...
Hmm, didn't I answer a similar question last week. 🙂
I'm lazy today, and takes a cut-n-paste... 🙂

Seti runs at priority 4
Genome runs at priority 4
UD runs at priority 1
Since ud/folding gives 50-50, folding must also be running at 1.

Generally, two clients with the same priority gets a 50-50-split. If different priority, the split is 99+ to highest client...

I don't know how folding responds to changing priority in Task Manager, but UD doesn't respond to anything except real-time... till the current wu is done.

If you're running seti or genome and wants to give priority to something else, you'll most likely have to download a program that can change the thread-priority.
For NT, bvslice can do this.
Now it's just to set seti or genome's thread to idle also, and you've got a 50-50-split to something else.
If the client isn't resetting the priority for every wu like UD does, you can also increase the thread-priority to the other client, giving this a 99+-advantage over either genome or seti.
 
Rattledagger

I should copy & paste your info to a text file for keeps😉
Btw doesnt the GUI S@H client run at a lower priority than CLi?

Itm

In conclusion: "I ask all of you Anandtechers, please evaluate the worthiness of the project you are running on your PC

I have ,& I have decieded personally that SETI is more deserving of my time
1.Mainly because it is the only way I can help humanity to search space for life
2.SETI gets far less funding than medical research in general

Also I'd like to point out that Robor is correct in saying that it is bad etiquette to recruite members from another team ,especially if the angle used is to slate other projects because you think that your project is more deserving.People will make their own choices as to which project to choose ,in the meantime you are creating hostilty by talking down other teams(through the projects).
If your angle had been something like 'hey guys could you lend us a hand for a while in F@H?' ,then some people would willing switch projects to help,but your angle of 'SETI is worthless (& therefore so is TA SETI) do our better F@H project' just rubs people up the wrong way.

Like Crazee said ,sing about the virtues of F@H but don't slag the others off!

Why not recruite some virgin members from the GH,OT & O/cing forums? ,we (as in TA in general) do have limited permission to create these recruiting OT threads there (& a few other sections too I think).PM the mods & ask them
 
< I take great care and precision in the words I write,>

Aye Itm,

You should probably take great care in your thinking process!!!!
You're starting to irritate a lot of senior members here!
And probably some of the F@H TeAm members also.

I was considering joining This DC project, but now YOU have helped me
decide otherwise. It seems you thing like an adolescent , maybe that 's what you are,
but this isn't the place to try and cram your beliefs of worthiness on fellow members.!!!!!!!

Turn on your PM option and we can discuss this privately.!

I truly hope that the other F@H members take note of this.

I fully support Crazee, BigWoofer and Robor on this matter!


GO THINK IT OVER!!!!!
 
TeamAnadTech F@H is made up of more members than one! I dont see many of the people Here having the "worthiness" discussion.....

Can we disassociate this discussion from TeamAnandTech F@H ??
Itm, can you start a new thread if you would like to host this topic with other DC members?

I was hoping we could get some resources from other DC members to help push TeamAnadTech higher..... We have sat around 50 for a bit now. If you can spare some resources that would be great!

BTW.... ALL TeamAnd DC projects are good! I dont think most members of the F@H AnandTech Team were trying to pit one against the other.



 
As far as the 'distractions' in this thread, I would just like to urge people visit the Folding@home site, learn a little about the project and see if it is something you are interested in. Make an informed decision, please don't join/not join based upon the opinions of one individual.

-------------

Assimilator1,



<< I have ,& I have decieded personally that SETI is more deserving of my time
1.Mainly because it is the only way I can help humanity to search space for life
2.SETI gets far less funding than medical research in general >>



You are correct insofar as you say SETI. I just wanted to point out that SETI@home is not the only SETI distributed computing project.
 
I agree with Syntax that we should not hold anything in this thread against the F@H project or TeAm. I will eventually find some resources to put in there as I would like to help do my part to get another TeAm to the top of their project 🙂
 
<TeamAnadTech F@H is made up of more members than one! >

Syntax,
I am sure that this is NOT the view of most of the TeAm DC members.

I have been a TeAm Seti member for only 2 months, and I joined because of
the recruiting threads all over TA forums, and never heard one word of comparing
projects and/or worthiness of this ome over whatever others!!

THAT is why I joined and found the best people anywhere!

I think we are all mature enough to decide which we want to support,
without getting a lecture on someone's opinon!
This is the first time I encounter this OTish thread in Our DC forums.
AND I Hope it's the LAST. This member's views does not help the cause at ALL.

Regards.


Paf



 
Syntax
I certainly don't blame the whole F@H team ,sorry if I wasn't clear about that 😱

Btw did you see my note about grabbing virgin DC members from other forums?
I don't believe there has been a recruiting thread in some of the other forums for a while ,so it would probably be ok(ask the mods)🙂

MereMortal
Absolutely fair enough 🙂 ,I was actually already aware of F@H, though I have found out a little more about it recently.
And thanks to your thread the other day I now know of DF's existance!🙂 ,though I haven't yet read up about it😱 (reading now) ,is it an identical project to F@H?

Btw I consider G@H & F@H good projects 🙂 ,if SETI stopped I wouldn't know which 1 2 choose!😉
Unfortunatley I won't spread myself around ,I'm a little selfish like that about my cpu time😉😱

I may know someone who I could recruite for you though ,my girlfriends father was some kind chemist/scientist at BP sometime ago ,maybe F@H would grab his interest? .I considered assimilating his PC for SETI but his K6-3 400 would be alittle slow for it(20hrs/WU?) ,combined that with the fact he doesn't have it on often ,1 maybe 2hrs/day its contribution to SETI would be very minimal.Or maybe I could start a F@H account & run it on his PC?😉
Hmmm going by Syntax's comments of F@H WU times maybe the same would applie here?🙁

Is there a benchmark WU used for F@H like there is for S@H(TLC WU ,which is considered an 'average WU')
 


<< Bunker

Seti doesn't like to play nice with any app
This just simply isn't true ,it works ok with most apps ,ok there are some that don't get along with it but to say it doesn't get along with all apps is incorrect!

I took it off my work machines because it was especially not liking Outlook
That is true ,but only with Outlook 2k AFAIK ,other versions are ok with it.
Also I think the GUI vesion is OK with outlook2k

Which apps have you had problems with other than Outlook2k? >>


Assim,

Maybe I should have worded my statement a little different. It just seems that seti slows down everything on my work PC. MS SQL server, Access 2k, Outlook 2k, SilverStream. This is a development machine with a boatload of stuff running at once which I'm sure contributes to the problem. But, as soon as I removed the cli from that system everything seemed to work fine.

I left seti because I think some other projects deserve some of my time, I first went to UD, now I'm at folding, and I'm sure in a couple months I'll head off to another project! I just don't like doing the same thing for a long time, I get bored with them easily. Plus, switching to folding, now I'm ranked #13 on the TeAm instead of two hundred something 🙂.

I have absolutely nothing against any project as I think it all helps further distributed computing as a whole.
 


<< Is there a benchmark WU used for F@H like there is for S@H(TLC WU ,which is considered an 'average WU') >>


Unfortunately I don't believe there is. F@H has about 15 or 16 different projects (proteins) that it runs, each one has it's own time limit. Some are 72 hours, some are 7 days. I haven't seen a protein from the same project that took a similar amount of time on any of the machines I run it.

When I was searching for info on F@H I had to make use of "other" forums since we don't have much info here and I have yet to run across anything mentioning a benchmarking wu.

I'll keep looking though and if I come across something I'll be sure to post it.
 
It's very hard to establish any benchmarks, ie:
My 1600xp oc'd to 1900 runs some at 1.72 minutes per frame, some take 7+ minutes per frame. Currently the one I'm working on is taking 1.42 min per frame. My wife's current wu is taking her 2.45min per frame, I've seen 10+ min frames. My Pll 233 takes up to 32 min per frame, the current one is 12+ min per frame.... you start to get the idea. Each wu is different, it depends on what protein they send you to work on, and how fast your cpu is running. Throw in the point system which is based on the type of protein they send you and you get brain meltdown trying to come up with a standard benchmark 🙂 Depending on what type I get sent, I can count on a certain speed and a certain "point" value for that protein.

Perhaps if someone were to keep track of the different types of proteins being folded, and what speed cpu we're using we could come up with somekind of "average" that we could then use as a "benchmark"---for the NativeBBA5 protein an average time of___ is ___. for example? Hmmm, somehow I think I may have answered my own question...?? Anyone willing to start keeping stats? 🙂 And how many are willing to keep stats to give to the stats keeper? I wonder if there are any add-ons that do that for you already...
 
Itm, Robor and the rest are all correct in that this is not good ediquate for a TA member. We fought a long, bloody flamewar back in 1999 over this issue when SETI@Home started, and the Seti guys first did this(which in retrospect, no one holds anything against them, it was uncharted waters). The rule has been, and always will be that you're free to recruit out in the open, and even ask for some help from within the team. However, you will be dead meat if you try to gain members by doing heavy internal recruiting/dissing other projects. Everyone is proud of what they do, and can get along well.

If you can't understand that, you're free to leave; I'm sure someone with a better attitude would be glad to help build the F@H team.😱
 
RustyNale.... see my post earlier in this thread about a program called KDFold. I will monitor and compile stats on multiple computers. This might help with some benchmarking. I could share my html output with you / others to compare benchmarks.

BTW... Has any other F@H member noticed this---> I have four computers runnin F@H and two computers get the same protien while the other 2 get different ones almost each time. My 2 slower computers get the GNRA Hairpin protien which takes a while to fold. My 2 fast computers get the small ba5_builds that take no time at all (but dont count as high in points)....... Was just wondering if others have noticed...

I did not take that any of you were grouping the AnandTech F@H team together for your comments. I would just rather this side discussion to have another thread because it hurts our chances of getting new people to look at F@H. This would turn me off on the project if I saw all these flames.... Oh well....
 
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