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I want to become a good arguer|POLL: do I make my points ok?

J

Jerboy

Banned
Hey I want to become a good arguer and I have lots of learning to do. First thing, I'd like to have you guys point out flaws and make construtive criticism on some of arguments I have here.


How well do you think I make well presented argument? I just want a non biased opinion. If you vote on either extreme end YOU MUST include your reason why you think so. If it's bad, what can I do to improve my argument skill?

Just voting "you're bad" w/o reasoning or reasoning you're bad because you suck gimmish won't be considered a good reason and so far two people already did htis.


You reached your quota for polls for this quarter Jerboy. Give it a rest for for a while.
 


<< what can I do to improve my argument skill? >>



Live with a female...

Sorry, still pissed after an argument I had yesterday 😱
 


<<

<< Hey I want to become a good arguer >>


No you don't. >>



sure I do. I love winning an argument with my parents or when there are some issues over private party trading.
 


<<

<<

<< Hey I want to become a good arguer >>


No you don't. >>



sure I do. I love winning an argument with my parents or when there are some issues over private party trading. >>


No you don't
 


<<

<< Hey I want to become a good arguer >>


No you don't. >>



Jerboy, you do not want to be a good arguer, and here's why:

* Gain reputation for being surly and combative
* Become less accepting of alternative viewpoints
* Increase conflict with parents
* Potential to boost ego to unwarranted levels
* People may come to dislike you if you become too good at it

To paraphrase Robert Heinlein, when you win an argument, you have really lost.

😛
 
Maetryx here, 😎

You should study logic. Make sure your conclusions have sufficient warrant from the propositions that led you to your conclusion. Don't equivocate. Don't assume causality that is not necessarily true.

One example of insufficient warrant:
a. There are fossils of animals that don't exist anymore
b. They appear to be extremely old
c. Humans evolved from a common ancestor

Note that c is not warranted from the above items. That's not to say that c isn't true. It's just not warranted from the propositions.

Example of equivocation:
a. My life is grand
b. I have a bank account
c. My life's savings at the bank is a grand.

Note that the phrase "grand" in a and c is an equivocation. They don't have the same definition.

Example of unnecessary causality (really just a common form of insufficient warrant).

a. Students who play a musical instrument do better in school.
b. Playing a musical instrument will cause one to be a better student.

Example taken from a TV ad on MTV that was promoting music programs in school, BTW. The problem here is that it is just as likely that GOOD students are the kind that take an interest in musical instruments. The learning of an instrument did not necessarily make them a better student. The causation can be reversed with a more likely conclusion i.e. good student tend to learn musical instruments NOT learning a musical instrument tend to make one a good student.

Or, follow none of this advice if arguing with someone who doesn't know better.

Finally, a good debate is held only when the parties will allow the stronger chain of reasoning to "win" the argument at hand. The weaker argument (and it's proponent) will either concede the victory (unlikely) or admit that it needs more research/support to be viable.
 
Jerboy,
It can't happen! You're an idiot, and no one wants to argue with an idiot! I'd get better satisfaction arguing with my 4 year old!
 
"* People may come to dislike you if you become too good at it"

Astaroth, I'm afraid that is true of me now. 😱

Jerboy, join a debate team at school, for that's the purpose of its existence. Besides, it provides you something to add on your resume. But most importantly, if you really care about good arguments, take a logic class at college (or high school) or you can study it yourself (provided you're a self-learner). 🙂 Lastly, consider pursuing law or politics if you're as passionate about it as you portray--rather than subject your parents to guinea pig experimentation.
rolleye.gif
 


<< Jerboy,
It can't happen! You're an idiot, and no one wants to argue with an idiot! I'd get better satisfaction arguing with my 4 year old! >>



what he said.. but minus the 4 year old part... since.. i dont have one
 
Honestly, if you want people to take your arguments seriously, grow up, and stop whining about how your life is unfair. People respect or not you by the overall image you project, not just by one part of it.
 
You didn't ask anyone to elucidate. The poll answers seemed to answer the only question you asked. Perhaps this will be instructive.
 
Do you really want to argue well?

The word 'argue' just conjures up school yard images.
Debate just sounds more sophisticated. 🙂

Besides there are plenty of good arguers around. All you have to do is make up your mind, stick with your decision and don't let the facts confuse you.

 


<< Maetryx here, 😎 You should study logic. .......Or, follow none of this advice if arguing with someone who doesn't know better. Finally, a good debate is held only when the parties will allow the stronger chain of reasoning to "win" the argument at hand. The weaker argument (and it's proponent) will either concede the victory (unlikely) or admit that it needs more research/support to be viable. >>



Both of these points are valid. Logic and Critical Thinking courses are definately a good idea. Debate team for verbal practice. Take this good advice from Maetryx - especially if you are on the end of a topic where you are the one who "doesn't know better". Also, don't be an antagonist, if you are asked to clarify be prepared to do so - a statement like 'you should know what I am talking about' or 'just admit it...' without clarification only proves that you are unable to explain yourself and makes you look stupid (especially if it is in a posting).

A good point to remember: The first one to start calling nasty names is usually the loser. Chalk your win up and walk away, these people are never convinced be either logic or reasoning.

VP
😉
 
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