I want honest opinions from Conservatives

[NJDevil]

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Both parties have great plans to sh|t all over me. But at least the democratic party probably won't sh|t all over my face.

If the republicans aren't giving you what you want, and you can't swallow the democrat pill then why not vote libertarian or some other party?

Exactly. On the bright side for you true conservatives, if the democrats take back the house and/or the senate, you'll have more of a gridlocked government which should lead to less spending and more accountability (which we've been sorely lacking the past 6 years).

I also can't understand why you, the base of the party can support them when they've done pretty much the opposite of what they promised. No one is expecting you to vote democrat, but why reward their incompetence with your vote? What incentive will there be for change in the republican party if the base votes regardless of the failed policies they've enacted.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: NJDevil

Originally posted by: PingSpike
Both parties have great plans to sh|t all over me. But at least the democratic party probably won't sh|t all over my face.

If the republicans aren't giving you what you want, and you can't swallow the democrat pill then why not vote libertarian or some other party?

Exactly. On the bright side for you true conservatives, if the democrats take back the house and/or the senate, you'll have more of a gridlocked government which should lead to less spending and more accountability (which we've been sorely lacking the past 6 years).

I also can't understand why you, the base of the party can support them when they've done pretty much the opposite of what they promised. No one is expecting you to vote democrat, but why reward their incompetence with your vote? What incentive will there be for change in the republican party if the base votes regardless of the failed policies they've enacted.

Just my 2 cents.

Easy, they still may get my vote, but I stopped donating money to their cause. I doubt I am alone in doing this.

 

[fskimospy]

Hey real quick Charrison, it wasn't the republican congress bouncing budgets back to Clinton. That's not how the system works... the congress writes the budget, the president signs it or bounces it back.

I think (hope) we can all agree though that the government needs some sort of accountability right now. I don't mean a partisan witch hunt, but just get back some of that basic distrust and oversight between the 3 branches of government that has enabled a lot of this craziness to happen. The legislative branch has really not stood up for its constitutional rights the last 6 years... and we really need it to.

 

[Arkaign]

Thank you for your replies, it is heartening to see conservatives who recognize the madness that has befallen what was supposed to be our party at the national level.

 

[smack Down]

I bet the republicans while get even more liberal with respect to spending. The republicans right now are trying to be the party of the poor and the rich.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Tab
That seems more libertarian than conservative...

As for voting for the third parties, that's more of a waste if anything...

Then we need a real Libertarian party.

 

[fire400]

I don't really agree that that's all conservative? It's a little bit of both, liberal and conservative depending on how the topic is discussed.

you could be happy for social affaris, but what about the affairs that are run to degrade the government.

there is a government agency that keeps track of groups in the United States. they can identify hate groups and ones that will gain favor in government recognition for possible funding and potential research priority projects. you really have to stand out.... however. you can't get rid of this one.

anyone who eats cereal in the morning knows that the government funds programs to help keep our food safe. you can't get rid of this one either.

tax cuts, hmm... upto how politicans feel like when they wake up in the morning?

 

[imported_hscorpio]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: feralkid
Yes, stick with voting for the party which gave you none of these things; let them know that they are doing a heck of a job.

That will send them the right message...keep up the good work!

As opposed to voting for the party that is guaranteed to not give you those things? Where is the logic in that?

If I want smaller, cheaper government why would I vote for Dems? Granted, right now you could ask that same question of the Rs but really, when have the Dems ever listed a smaller cheaper government as part of their platform?

You should vote for Dems (this election for congress obviously) because gridlock is the best thing we can hope for. The best thing about the Clinton years was that the republican congress and democrat president kept each other in check. Letting either party have control of the executive and legislative branch is asking for trouble, as the last 6 years have shown all to well.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Hey real quick Charrison, it wasn't the republican congress bouncing budgets back to Clinton. That's not how the system works... the congress writes the budget, the president signs it or bounces it back.

I think (hope) we can all agree though that the government needs some sort of accountability right now. I don't mean a partisan witch hunt, but just get back some of that basic distrust and oversight between the 3 branches of government that has enabled a lot of this craziness to happen. The legislative branch has really not stood up for its constitutional rights the last 6 years... and we really need it to.

Actually it kind of works both ways. THe presidenty typcailly will send a budget to congress as a starting point. But you are right it is up to congress to write the budget, which the republican congress did at that point.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

true, In fact I expect that if the dems pull off the house control thing ( and/or Senate, which at this point seems unlikely) . We will see very little meaningful tasks accomplished, other then trying to bash the other side for the next two years in a attempt to regain the whitehouse in 08.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: daniel49

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

true, In fact I expect that if the dems pull off the house control thing ( and/or Senate, which at this point seems unlikely) . We will see very little meaningful tasks accomplished, other then trying to bash the other side for the next two years in a attempt to regain the whitehouse in 08.

So it will be status quo.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Conservative to me means :

*Smaller, not larger government*
*Cut Spending, keep taxes fair and as low as RESPONSIBLY possible*
*DO NOT get involved in conflicts unless a clear and present danger exists to the safety of the American people*
*Respect for our laws, and control of our borders*
*Appoint personnel in positions for reasons of pure ability and honesty, *NEVER* for pure political reasons*
*Keep the governement as minimally active in social issues as possible*

If Republicans truly met that criteria even I would be considered a "conservative".

 

[Moonbeam]

What Republicans can't see because they don't want the truth to hurt their feelings is that the insanity we see in the Republican party is their own. The Republican party is a disaster because Republican voters are a disaster. You guys are crazy and your insanity is reflected back at you. You're all going to vote Democratic when The Democratic party mends its ways, but your vision of that party and what is wrong with it is all part of your delusions. You have no touchstone with reality and all of your opinions are insane, but you cling to the notion you can discriminate. Hehe, right! I know, your fine faculties for discrimination gave us George Bush. Take everything you believe and throw it in the trash. It is killing us all. Please! The person you should distrust is you.

 

[senseamp]

Conservatism is dead as a practical political reality. I don't know why we waste time talking about it if even the party that claims to represent it has no interest in it when it's actually in power.
Let's recap, Democrats aren't interested in conservatism, and Republicans are only interested in it when they are out of power. Therefore, no party in power is ever interested in conservatism, ie conservatives don't have political power to implement their ideology.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

i think you are wrong about many of those things..democrats are bound to rules of economics just as much as anyone else is..i don't quite understand where people get the idea that the democrats are going to drag us down with unnecessary environmental rules etc..they still have to work within the same constraints as any other group that would be in power..what proof do you have that they would actually do such a bad job that it would be catastrophic or anything close to that?

we need cleaner more efficient energy...that is a fact..WE NEED IT..i dont know how else to stress this.. we need to build a healthier country and having anti-environmental interests dominating our political system is not healthy..regardless of your placement on a spectrum of what you believe are our true environmental threats, the desires of a couple companies to not lose a bit of profit at the expense of the health of our generation's and future generation's health must be put to an end...

the principles of economics are very helpful, but the refusal to admit that we must make a reasonable analysis about what our needs will be in the long term is created by these very companies. our continued absorption of their propaganda that we must continue to live exactly as they say OR ELSE..must be put to an end..

we did not make it this far as a species because we are all a bunch of morons, that doesn't mean we don't make mistakes, but i don't believe that it is necessary for us to live in a world where a couple elites make decisions for us all and we all fight over minor details and treat each other like crap when as others have said we are arguing over a giant douche..or a turd sandwich

 

[judasmachine]

When this pipe dream comes true, and I'll consider voting conservative once in a while.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

i think you are wrong about many of those things..democrats are bound to rules of economics just as much as anyone else is..i don't quite understand where people get the idea that the democrats are going to drag us down with unnecessary environmental rules etc..they still have to work within the same constraints as any other group that would be in power..what proof do you have that they would actually do such a bad job that it would be catastrophic or anything close to that?

we need cleaner more efficient energy...that is a fact..WE NEED IT..i dont know how else to stress this.. we need to build a healthier country and having anti-environmental interests dominating our political system is not healthy..regardless of your placement on a spectrum of what you believe are our true environmental threats, the desires of a couple companies to not lose a bit of profit at the expense of the health of our generation's and future generation's health must be put to an end...

the principles of economics are very helpful, but the refusal to admit that we must make a reasonable analysis about what our needs will be in the long term is created by these very companies. our continued absorption of their propaganda that we must continue to live exactly as they say OR ELSE..must be put to an end..

And reasonable analysis says we can drill in coastal waters and in the alaska tundra without doing environmental harm. Reasonable analysis says we can clean up our dirty coal plants via cap and trade rather than authoritarian legislation on plant operations. It also show we can use wind and nuclear power without major problems. Democrats tend to want hinder energy progress with excessive regulation.

You will also have to realize that air quality and energy efficiency continues to improve with the current admin. Reasonable policy can be quite effective at achieving its goals.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Conservatism is dead as a practical political reality. I don't know why we waste time talking about it if even the party that claims to represent it has no interest in it when it's actually in power.
Let's recap, Democrats aren't interested in conservatism, and Republicans are only interested in it when they are out of power. Therefore, no party in power is ever interested in conservatism, ie conservatives don't have political power to implement their ideology.

I hate to say it, but you make a lot of sense there. I've read a lot of William Buckley's work, and it does seem that the Republican party always abandons conservative responsibility when they gain power.

It distresses me greatly to see people calling themselves 'conservative' supporting such free-spending corrupt tools

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: senseamp
Conservatism is dead as a practical political reality. I don't know why we waste time talking about it if even the party that claims to represent it has no interest in it when it's actually in power.
Let's recap, Democrats aren't interested in conservatism, and Republicans are only interested in it when they are out of power. Therefore, no party in power is ever interested in conservatism, ie conservatives don't have political power to implement their ideology.

I hate to say it, but you make a lot of sense there. I've read a lot of William Buckley's work, and it does seem that the Republican party always abandons conservative responsibility when they gain power.

It distresses me greatly to see people calling themselves 'conservative' supporting such free-spending corrupt tools

Don't forget the patriot act, there's no excuse for supporting something like that.

 

[trenchfoot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: senseamp
Conservatism is dead as a practical political reality. I don't know why we waste time talking about it if even the party that claims to represent it has no interest in it when it's actually in power.
Let's recap, Democrats aren't interested in conservatism, and Republicans are only interested in it when they are out of power. Therefore, no party in power is ever interested in conservatism, ie conservatives don't have political power to implement their ideology.

I hate to say it, but you make a lot of sense there. I've read a lot of William Buckley's work, and it does seem that the Republican party always abandons conservative responsibility when they gain power.

It distresses me greatly to see people calling themselves 'conservative' supporting such free-spending corrupt tools

Don't forget the patriot act, there's no excuse for supporting something like that.

ohhhh yes there is a valid excuse - there is no scientific, homeopathic or exorcistic cure for stupidity.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
...when have the Dems ever listed a smaller cheaper government as part of their platform?

Did the dems run on a platform that they'd balance the budget in 1992? No, but they won and they did balance the budget.

If this were the 1992, I've little doubt you would be saying the same thing you are now, that you are vhoosing George H. W. Bush over Clinton because you KNOW he'll overspend.

You republicans are a menace to the country because you let the crooks get away with manipulating you to vote for them with 'the democrats are worse' while they rob away.

No but the republicans ran with contract with America in 1994 lead by Gingrinch that included a balanced budget. I hate to break it to you, bu the republican congress gets quite a bit of credit for those balanced for those few balanced budgets. They bounched several budgets back to clinton before they got balanced.

Try to follow the discussion. Whooz argued that because the democrats aren't making a balanced budget a central part of their campaign message, there's zero chance they'll move in that direction. I responded that the democrats did not do so for Bill Clinton's candidacy in 1992 either, yet he did move from the republican deficits to a balanced budget, so Whooz is wrong in his assumption about democrats not moving towards a balanced budget.

But he's partisan judging by his posts and not able to put the facts ahead of his ideology, and so he'll still vote for republicans because they say what he wants to hear.

Your point is not relevant to the discussion he and I were having. But snce you do raise the issue of the republicans' role, there are three things to note:

1. Clinton and a democratic House and Sentate had already started big deficit reduction from his firest year in office, during the two years before republicans took Congress.

2. There is likely some part of the picture that has to do with opposite parties keeping each others' spending down.

3. You can't give any credit to the republican party as the 'low deficit' party compared to democrats, because the moment they got all three institutions, deficits went back up.

So, what the facts offer you are democrats party of low deficits and fiscal responsibility; republicans party of deficits and fiscal irresponsibility; some benefit to mixed-parties.

What ideology offers you is that the democrats hate the US, love to tax and overspend, want to destroy the nation's economy while republicans are the opposite.

Whether you believe facts or ideology is up to you. What happens to our nation when you make the wrong choice of republicans is not up to you. The damage is done.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

i think you are wrong about many of those things..democrats are bound to rules of economics just as much as anyone else is..i don't quite understand where people get the idea that the democrats are going to drag us down with unnecessary environmental rules etc..they still have to work within the same constraints as any other group that would be in power..what proof do you have that they would actually do such a bad job that it would be catastrophic or anything close to that?

we need cleaner more efficient energy...that is a fact..WE NEED IT..i dont know how else to stress this.. we need to build a healthier country and having anti-environmental interests dominating our political system is not healthy..regardless of your placement on a spectrum of what you believe are our true environmental threats, the desires of a couple companies to not lose a bit of profit at the expense of the health of our generation's and future generation's health must be put to an end...

the principles of economics are very helpful, but the refusal to admit that we must make a reasonable analysis about what our needs will be in the long term is created by these very companies. our continued absorption of their propaganda that we must continue to live exactly as they say OR ELSE..must be put to an end..

And reasonable analysis says we can drill in coastal waters and in the alaska tundra without doing environmental harm. Reasonable analysis says we can clean up our dirty coal plants via cap and trade rather than authoritarian legislation on plant operations. It also show we can use wind and nuclear power without major problems. Democrats tend to want hinder energy progress with excessive regulation.

You will also have to realize that air quality and energy efficiency continues to improve with the current admin. Reasonable policy can be quite effective at achieving its goals.

if you want to drill so badly...what is your long run plan? oil is not infinite..we need something better..so many people think that drilling is necessary in alaska but my question is how is this going to help us have cleaner more efficient energy?

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
The last six years have been unbelievably disappointing. Everything I was looking forward to by having "conservatives" in full control has turned out exactly the opposite. The budget has ballooned... as has the deficit. Government is bigger and more intrusive than ever.

Unlike Pandaren I'm still voting Republican on Tuesday. There really isn't a choice in my state. Don Young or a complete nobody who defected from the Green party to get her name on the ballot... Don Young.

I can't vote Dem cause, well, all of the things the Rs have been doing to make baby Whoozyer cry are on the agenda for the Ds. There is no way that they will shrink the size of government or lower spending and they have no desire to give me any kind of tax break (much less let me keep the paltry on I got from the Rs).

Douche... Turd Sandwich...

I would have to agree, I am disappointed with republicans in general, but the democratic platform is not attracting me either.

I agree too. Once you have a disease that is killing you why go out and vote for something different. Your best judgment got you disaster, why go with something counter- intuitive. The thing about self hate is that it is self destructive, but of course, in the name of the good. It's better to be dead than to admit to a mistake.

And when the democrats embrace pro growth economics, reasonable enviromental rules, throws aside class warfare, adopts the desire to cancel useless goverment programs, change social programs into handups and not handouts, drops gun control, embraces self reliance over goverment reliance and realizes the military is not just a jobs program. When this happens, I will be first in line to pull the lever for a democrat but at this point they are nowhere close to this.

i think you are wrong about many of those things..democrats are bound to rules of economics just as much as anyone else is..i don't quite understand where people get the idea that the democrats are going to drag us down with unnecessary environmental rules etc..they still have to work within the same constraints as any other group that would be in power..what proof do you have that they would actually do such a bad job that it would be catastrophic or anything close to that?

we need cleaner more efficient energy...that is a fact..WE NEED IT..i dont know how else to stress this.. we need to build a healthier country and having anti-environmental interests dominating our political system is not healthy..regardless of your placement on a spectrum of what you believe are our true environmental threats, the desires of a couple companies to not lose a bit of profit at the expense of the health of our generation's and future generation's health must be put to an end...

the principles of economics are very helpful, but the refusal to admit that we must make a reasonable analysis about what our needs will be in the long term is created by these very companies. our continued absorption of their propaganda that we must continue to live exactly as they say OR ELSE..must be put to an end..

And reasonable analysis says we can drill in coastal waters and in the alaska tundra without doing environmental harm. Reasonable analysis says we can clean up our dirty coal plants via cap and trade rather than authoritarian legislation on plant operations. It also show we can use wind and nuclear power without major problems. Democrats tend to want hinder energy progress with excessive regulation.

You will also have to realize that air quality and energy efficiency continues to improve with the current admin. Reasonable policy can be quite effective at achieving its goals.

if you want to drill so badly...what is your long run plan? oil is not infinite..we need something better..so many people think that drilling is necessary in alaska but my question is how is this going to help us have cleaner more efficient energy?

Your righr, oil is a finite resource but it still remains one of the cheapest and best energy sources available today. And my point was not just on drilling. My point was nore than about oil.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
...when have the Dems ever listed a smaller cheaper government as part of their platform?

Did the dems run on a platform that they'd balance the budget in 1992? No, but they won and they did balance the budget.

If this were the 1992, I've little doubt you would be saying the same thing you are now, that you are vhoosing George H. W. Bush over Clinton because you KNOW he'll overspend.

You republicans are a menace to the country because you let the crooks get away with manipulating you to vote for them with 'the democrats are worse' while they rob away.

No but the republicans ran with contract with America in 1994 lead by Gingrinch that included a balanced budget. I hate to break it to you, bu the republican congress gets quite a bit of credit for those balanced for those few balanced budgets. They bounched several budgets back to clinton before they got balanced.

Try to follow the discussion. Whooz argued that because the democrats aren't making a balanced budget a central part of their campaign message, there's zero chance they'll move in that direction. I responded that the democrats did not do so for Bill Clinton's candidacy in 1992 either, yet he did move from the republican deficits to a balanced budget, so Whooz is wrong in his assumption about democrats not moving towards a balanced budget.

But he's partisan judging by his posts and not able to put the facts ahead of his ideology, and so he'll still vote for republicans because they say what he wants to hear.

Your point is not relevant to the discussion he and I were having. But snce you do raise the issue of the republicans' role, there are three things to note:

1. Clinton and a democratic House and Sentate had already started big deficit reduction from his firest year in office, during the two years before republicans took Congress.

2. There is likely some part of the picture that has to do with opposite parties keeping each others' spending down.

3. You can't give any credit to the republican party as the 'low deficit' party compared to democrats, because the moment they got all three institutions, deficits went back up.

So, what the facts offer you are democrats party of low deficits and fiscal responsibility; republicans party of deficits and fiscal irresponsibility; some benefit to mixed-parties.

What ideology offers you is that the democrats hate the US, love to tax and overspend, want to destroy the nation's economy while republicans are the opposite.

Whether you believe facts or ideology is up to you. What happens to our nation when you make the wrong choice of republicans is not up to you. The damage is done.

Let first say I am not trying not give clinton for the good things in his term.

1. Very little was done in budget reductions. Most of the budgers defeciti reductions came from an improving economy that Clinton inherited. Significant reductions in spending did not come until 94 and republican take over of congress.

2. A large part. Grid lock is not all bad.

3. This is one of the reasons they will not do well this election.

Your fiacts are bit off. The democrats are not the party of low spending by any means.

 

[zephyrprime]

Originally posted by: WhoozyerdaddyIf I want smaller, cheaper government why would I vote for Dems? Granted, right now you could ask that same question of the Rs but really, when have the Dems ever listed a smaller cheaper government as part of their platform?

Maybe because the Dems *are* the party of smaller cheaper government at this time? Just take a look at the spending policies of this republican congress. They've been entirely pro big government.