I think I've settled on a camera: 450D (XSi)

[ElFenix]

the D80 has a .95x magnification finder, so of course the D40 with it's .8x magnification finder is going to be tunnel-like in comparison. that isn't a property of the pentamirror, it's a property of the much smaller magnification.

suggesting the D60 over the 450D due to the viewfinder, when both have the same type and essentially the same size viewfinder, is ridiculous.

 

[Deadtrees]

1. Hard to understand the logic of Dug777 bashing 450D by saying it's got a pentamirror/small viewfinder considering
he recommands D40x/D60 which has the same small pentamirror/viewfinder.

450D: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.87x magnification
D60: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification
D40x: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification.

Pentamirror isn't such a bad thing especially on croped sensor cameras. The difference it makes on a cropped sensor camera
isn't much noticable at all.

2. We're talking about 450D, not 400D. I, too, didn't like 400D and Canon's general entry level cameras due to their rather too small viewfinder and
grip. However, 450D is all different when it comes to those issues.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
1. Hard to understand the logic of Dug777 bashing 450D by saying it's got a pentamirror/small viewfinder considering
he recommands D40x/D60 which has the same small pentamirror/viewfinder.

450D: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.87x magnification
D60: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification
D40x: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification.

Pentamirror isn't such a bad thing especially on croped sensor cameras. The difference it makes on a cropped sensor camera
isn't much noticable at all.

2. We're talking about 450D, not 400D. I, too, didn't like 400D and Canon's general entry level cameras due to their rather too small viewfinder and
grip. However, 450D is all different when it comes to those issues.

I was not attempting to recommend the D60/40/x over the 450D on the basis of it's viewfinder compared to that of the 450D (and I have since attempted to make that clear in prior posts), although I can understand how that impression came accross, and I apologise for that.

I was 'bashing' the 400D for what I percieve to be its deficiences against what most people considered to be it's effective competitor at release, the D80. If people bothered to read my OP in here, I then went on to suggest that I would save up for the 40D if I wanted a Canon at this stage (which carries a similar price premium over the 450D to the D80-400D divide). My 'bashing' of the 400D (and tbh the specs of the 450D don't inspire me that these things have really been addressed) was all part of an extremely cunning rationale as to why why I would save up for the 40D...

@El Fenix: Pentaprisms by their very design are brighter than pentamirrors, so if you have two identical magnification & coverage viewfinders, one being prism & the other mirror, the pentaprism will be brighter.

 

[LikeLinus]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
1. Hard to understand the logic of Dug777 bashing 450D by saying it's got a pentamirror/small viewfinder considering
he recommands D40x/D60 which has the same small pentamirror/viewfinder.

450D: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.87x magnification
D60: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification
D40x: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification.

Pentamirror isn't such a bad thing especially on croped sensor cameras. The difference it makes on a cropped sensor camera
isn't much noticable at all.

2. We're talking about 450D, not 400D. I, too, didn't like 400D and Canon's general entry level cameras due to their rather too small viewfinder and
grip. However, 450D is all different when it comes to those issues.

I was not attempting to recommend the D60/40/x over the 450D on the basis of it's viewfinder compared to that of the 450D (and I have since attempted to make that clear in prior posts), although I can understand how that impression came accross, and I apologise for that.

I was 'bashing' the 400D for what I percieve to be its deficiences against what most people considered to be it's effective competitor at release, the D80. If people bothered to read my OP in here, I then went on to suggest that I would save up for the 40D if I wanted a Canon at this stage (which carries a similar price premium over the 450D to the D80-400D divide). My 'bashing' of the 400D (and tbh the specs of the 450D don't inspire me that these things have really been addressed) was all part of an extremely cunning rationale as to why why I would save up for the 40D...

@El Fenix: Pentaprisms by their very design are brighter than pentamirrors, so if you have two identical magnification & coverage viewfinders, one being prism & the other mirror, the pentaprism will be brighter.

WTF do you continue to talk about the 400D when this thread is about the 450D? That's the real question.

It's a stupid argument because it has NOTHING to do with the thread. It appears you're being childish and doing anything to knock Canon.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
1. Hard to understand the logic of Dug777 bashing 450D by saying it's got a pentamirror/small viewfinder considering
he recommands D40x/D60 which has the same small pentamirror/viewfinder.

450D: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.87x magnification
D60: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification
D40x: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification.

Pentamirror isn't such a bad thing especially on croped sensor cameras. The difference it makes on a cropped sensor camera
isn't much noticable at all.

2. We're talking about 450D, not 400D. I, too, didn't like 400D and Canon's general entry level cameras due to their rather too small viewfinder and
grip. However, 450D is all different when it comes to those issues.

I was not attempting to recommend the D60/40/x over the 450D on the basis of it's viewfinder compared to that of the 450D (and I have since attempted to make that clear in prior posts), although I can understand how that impression came accross, and I apologise for that.

I was 'bashing' the 400D for what I percieve to be its deficiences against what most people considered to be it's effective competitor at release, the D80. If people bothered to read my OP in here, I then went on to suggest that I would save up for the 40D if I wanted a Canon at this stage (which carries a similar price premium over the 450D to the D80-400D divide). My 'bashing' of the 400D (and tbh the specs of the 450D don't inspire me that these things have really been addressed) was all part of an extremely cunning rationale as to why why I would save up for the 40D...

@El Fenix: Pentaprisms by their very design are brighter than pentamirrors, so if you have two identical magnification & coverage viewfinders, one being prism & the other mirror, the pentaprism will be brighter.

WTF do you continue to talk about the 400D when this thread is about the 450D? That's the real question.

It's a stupid argument because it has NOTHING to do with the thread. It appears you're being childish and doing anything to knock Canon.

Reading comprehension ftl

I haven't tried a 450D, you haven't tried a 450D, there aren't any reviews of a 450D, and nobody except Canon engineers have used or held a 450D.

I mentioned the 400D in my first post in this thread because I have tried and used a 350/400D, and I have consistently considered the issues I raised to be deficiencies of the x00D line.

It does not appear to me from the specs and pics availiable that either of these have been significantly addressed in the 450D, but as I've said several times, let's wait until we can hold/use one of these things before making that final call, and I would certainly suggest the OP does that before he buys, unless he's quite comfortable with the current 400D.

I don't know how many times I've suggested that if I wanted a new Canon at this stage, I'd save up for the 40D, which I have used, and was quite taken by. That's hardly knocking Canon, but it is knocking the x00D line, based on my personal experience and opinion of the previous Cameras in that line. You can bite my shiny metal ass for that

Just because someone presents an alternative view to your personal view, in a thread that specifically seeks our opinions, does not make it 'childish' :roll:

 

[dug777]

In the interests of getting this thread back on track, please direct any further issues you have with me to my PM box.

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: LikeLinus

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Deadtrees
1. Hard to understand the logic of Dug777 bashing 450D by saying it's got a pentamirror/small viewfinder considering
he recommands D40x/D60 which has the same small pentamirror/viewfinder.

450D: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.87x magnification
D60: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification
D40x: Pentamirror, 95% coverage, 0.8x magnification.

Pentamirror isn't such a bad thing especially on croped sensor cameras. The difference it makes on a cropped sensor camera
isn't much noticable at all.

2. We're talking about 450D, not 400D. I, too, didn't like 400D and Canon's general entry level cameras due to their rather too small viewfinder and
grip. However, 450D is all different when it comes to those issues.

I was not attempting to recommend the D60/40/x over the 450D on the basis of it's viewfinder compared to that of the 450D (and I have since attempted to make that clear in prior posts), although I can understand how that impression came accross, and I apologise for that.

I was 'bashing' the 400D for what I percieve to be its deficiences against what most people considered to be it's effective competitor at release, the D80. If people bothered to read my OP in here, I then went on to suggest that I would save up for the 40D if I wanted a Canon at this stage (which carries a similar price premium over the 450D to the D80-400D divide). My 'bashing' of the 400D (and tbh the specs of the 450D don't inspire me that these things have really been addressed) was all part of an extremely cunning rationale as to why why I would save up for the 40D...

@El Fenix: Pentaprisms by their very design are brighter than pentamirrors, so if you have two identical magnification & coverage viewfinders, one being prism & the other mirror, the pentaprism will be brighter.

WTF do you continue to talk about the 400D when this thread is about the 450D? That's the real question.

It's a stupid argument because it has NOTHING to do with the thread. It appears you're being childish and doing anything to knock Canon.

Reading comprehension ftl

I haven't tried a 450D, you haven't tried a 450D, there aren't any reviews of a 450D, and nobody except Canon engineers have used or held a 450D.

I mentioned the 400D in my first post in this thread because I have tried and used a 350/400D, and I have consistently considered the issues I raised to be deficiencies of the x00D line.

It does not appear to me from the specs and pics availiable that either of these have been significantly addressed in the 450D, but as I've said several times, let's wait until we can hold/use one of these things before making that final call, and I would certainly suggest the OP does that before he buys, unless he's quite comfortable with the current 400D.

I don't know how many times I've suggested that if I wanted a new Canon at this stage, I'd save up for the 40D, which I have used, and was quite taken by. That's hardly knocking Canon, but it is knocking the x00D line, based on my personal experience and opinion of the previous Cameras in that line. You can bite my shiny metal ass for that

Just because someone presents an alternative view to your personal view, in a thread that specifically seeks our opinions, does not make it 'childish' :roll:

450D is being sold in some countries. Previews as well as Reviews of the camera has been out on many websites.

 

[Fardringle]

Would you mind sharing some links to actual reviews on the 450D? I'd be very interested in some actual hands-on reviews of the camera as I'm trying to convince my wife that there's room in the budget for a new SLR.

I went four pages deep on a Google search for (450D review) and only got people trying to sell pre-orders on the camera, legitimate review sites with the press release and spec sheets and promises to post reviews as soon as they get the camera, or someone saying "I held the camera for two minutes at a trade show and...."

 

[Deadtrees]

Originally posted by: Fardringle
Would you mind sharing some links to actual reviews on the 450D? I'd be very interested in some actual hands-on reviews of the camera as I'm trying to convince my wife that there's room in the budget for a new SLR.

I went four pages deep on a Google search for (450D review) and only got people trying to sell pre-orders on the camera, legitimate review sites with the press release and spec sheets and promises to post reviews as soon as they get the camera, or someone saying "I held the camera for two minutes at a trade show and...."

http://www.cameralabs.com/revi...ebel_XSi/verdict.shtml

If you look into Japanse or Korean sites, you'll find more reviews.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Deadtrees

Originally posted by: Fardringle
Would you mind sharing some links to actual reviews on the 450D? I'd be very interested in some actual hands-on reviews of the camera as I'm trying to convince my wife that there's room in the budget for a new SLR.

I went four pages deep on a Google search for (450D review) and only got people trying to sell pre-orders on the camera, legitimate review sites with the press release and spec sheets and promises to post reviews as soon as they get the camera, or someone saying "I held the camera for two minutes at a trade show and...."

http://www.cameralabs.com/revi...ebel_XSi/verdict.shtml

If you look into Japanse or Korean sites, you'll find more reviews.

That's not an actual review, afasics:

Obviously until we test a 450D / XSi we can?t say how its image quality compares, but as an indication of the difference between

 

[JDub02]

My $.02 ... the XSi is going to be a great camera.

I went with the Nikon D40 because, in my opinion, it offers the best bang for the buck. I have absolutely no regrets.

My suggestion, unless the new features mean alot to you, save money on the camera body and put the extra cash into a lens, flash, or preferably both.

95% of taking nice pictures is the photographer. I've realized that all of the dSLR's will take nice photos. Just go with what feels good in your hand and makes sense to use. For my wife, it was the D40. My vote was for the Sony A-100 (also a good value) because of the grip. We all know who wins in those arguments.

 

[nace186]

I went with Pentax K200D. The reason is because I like the weather proofed body and the ability to use AA battery, which with a decent rechargeable battery, it can take over 1000 pictures.

 

[ElFenix]

especially since unlike previous new launches, the 450D / XSi does not actually replace the existing 400D / XTi. Instead Canon?s keeping the 400D / XTi on as its entry-level DSLR, and is slotting the new 450D / XSi between it and the semi-pro EOS 40D.

fwiw, canon has bumped down the old rebel and slotted the new one in above it with each rebel introduced since the XT/350D.


dpreview obviously has their's already.


edit: oops, i made a goof when doing viewfinder calculations and multiplied the sensor size by % coverage and the magnification, rather than by the square of the magnification. so, the 450D actually has a slightly larger finder than the D40/x/60, rather than a slightly smaller finder.

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: nace186
I went with Pentax K200D. The reason is because I like the weather proofed body and the ability to use AA battery, which with a decent rechargeable battery, it can take over 1000 pictures.

and the ability to use stabilization on any lens , that was why i went to the k10d, i have been able to take some picture that would have been totally blurry without the inbuilt IS, viewfinder on the k10d is fantastic as well

both canon and nikon's (which the op is considering) make fine cameras. Ergonomics is a matter of preference and depends from person to person. I would lean toward the 400/450d simply because they can use lenses without in built motors (unlike d40/d40x,d60).

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: nace186
I went with Pentax K200D. The reason is because I like the weather proofed body and the ability to use AA battery, which with a decent rechargeable battery, it can take over 1000 pictures.

and the ability to use stabilization on any lens , that was why i went to the k10d, i have been able to take some picture that would have been totally blurry without the inbuilt IS, viewfinder on the k10d is fantastic as well

both canon and nikon's (which the op is considering) make fine cameras. Ergonomics is a matter of preference and depends from person to person. I would lean toward the 400/450d simply because they can use lenses without in built motors (unlike d40/d40x,d60).

the AF motor on every EOS AF lens is in the lens. no motor in the camera at all. same point though.