I think its time we have a REAL Yet Another Gun Thread for P&N

Page 5 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,646
10,068
136
]It seems that the goal of keeping guns out of the hands of criminals and the mentally ill is worth a little paperwork and a short wait time. The NRA will resist this to the end, and convince you that your rights are being horribly trampled. Also if a gun is refused to someone, that means one less sale, and the NRA can't have that. [/B]

But I don't see any way to get private psych records safely into a new national database.

And people are clever enough to figure out how to get one no matter what. Look at all the hoops we go through to keep guns from dangerous people. The task is impossible with the ubiquity of guns. Yay guns and the NRA!

seeing as there are laws already in place to address those things....why do we need more laws?

generally speaking, every time you buy from a dealer you get an NICS check. it's only private party transfers that do not require a check. of course, if you made NICS available to people, they might actually use it.

and then of course there are straw purchases, which are incredibly difficult to stop.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
But they wield an awful lot of power in such a compact, easy to hold and hide machine. I'm not sure as a species we are evolved enough to handle that kind of 'easy power' responsibly enough for general safety (for many-globally, not you guys). That's not to say there's something I believe can be done about it.

This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
0
This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.

Party Affiliation :colbert: :whiste: ;)
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.

Just so I am clear: what makes you better than the average citizen?
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,382
1,262
136
This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.

Yet, many think the government should give out free birth control and abortions and that demanding people be responsible for themselves sexually is like wrong and stuff. How dare the government tell people whom they can sleep with and what they can do with their reproductive system but they can tell you how to defend yourself via (fire)arms.

The general public isn't very responsible these days because our society doesn't require it of them. Welcome to the nanny state.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
Just so I am clear: what makes you better than the average citizen?

Besides intelligence, I don't think I am better than the average citizen. I wouldn't mind going through 'testing' to be able to get a gun just like I think everybody should. Maybe some training in how to deescalate situations to try to counteract the extra feeling of power you get from having a gun. I think I saw 'Nutnfancy' say on one of his videos that gun carriers should be even more diligent in trying to avoid/deescalate situations than most people and I agree with that (even though there were plenty of other sentiments he had that I didn't agree with :)).

Who said "with great power comes great responsibility"?
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Besides intelligence, I don't think I am better than the average citizen. I wouldn't mind going through 'testing' to be able to get a gun just like I think everybody should. Maybe some training in how to deescalate situations to try to counteract the extra feeling of power you get from having a gun. I think I saw 'Nutnfancy' say on one of his videos that gun carriers should be even more diligent in trying to avoid/deescalate situations than most people and I agree with that (even though there were plenty of other sentiments he had that I didn't agree with :)).

Who said "with great power comes great responsibility"?

While I agree on weeding out the morons who should NEVER carry a gun....I'm not sure I care about deescalating a situation. Recognize when it's time to reach for the gun, if there's time give a verbal warning with your hand on the gun, then pull and shoot (don't pull and warn.)

While being able to defuse a situation is good, that's something that is far less quantifiable and takes A LOT of skill sometimes. I would sooner stop the people who accidentally shoot someone at their door.

On principle I like the idea of training requirements. In practice, I fear it'll be used as a way to regulate guns further.
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.

It doesnt MAKE people more bold anymore than a BMW MAKES you drive like an asshole.
It just finds out what you're really made of.

If you wanna know what someones really like, watch them in adversity, or with lots of power.
Seeing how someone acts when they've got all sorts of checks & balances in place doesnt really tell you much about them.

I think the main issue in America with guns and cars and cell phones is we are discovering just how many people are selfish spoiled stupid lazy immature angry assholes.

But the problem is the people, its always been the people and always will be.
Guns dont make you violent. But a lot of you will never know what you truly are deep on the inside until you have a gun in your hands.

The problem is ignorance of our own personalities, and the people around us.
NOT the objects. The gadgets and machines are just instruments through which we express ourselves.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,386
5,812
136
This is my concern too. I like guns and intend on getting more, but I don't think the general public is responsible enough to carry them around. I thinks it makes people more bold in situations. I think something should be in place to weed out the irresponsible citizen from carrying guns.
Let's start with procreation and intelligence/income.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
It doesnt MAKE people more bold anymore than a BMW MAKES you drive like an asshole.
It just finds out what you're really made of.

If you wanna know what someones really like, watch them in adversity, or with lots of power.
Seeing how someone acts when they've got all sorts of checks & balances in place doesnt really tell you much about them.

I think the main issue in America with guns and cars and cell phones is we are discovering just how many people are selfish spoiled stupid lazy immature angry assholes.

But the problem is the people, its always been the people and always will be.
Guns dont make you violent. But a lot of you will never know what you truly are deep on the inside until you have a gun in your hands.

The problem is ignorance of our own personalities, and the people around us.
NOT the objects. The gadgets and machines are just instruments through which we express ourselves.

While I know it's people that are causing the problems, the 'objects' help dictate how much damage the people can do. That is why society doesn't let individuals have nukes or why we have to get a driver's license. But also your post supports the people getting training before they are allowed to have the 'objects'. The more dangerous the 'object' the more diligent society has to be in deciding who can have them unless of course we all want to be wiped out as a species.
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
While I know it's people that are causing the problems, the 'objects' help dictate how much damage the people can do. That is why society doesn't let individuals have nukes or why we have to get a driver's license. But also your post supports the people getting training before they are allowed to have the 'objects'. The more dangerous the 'object' the more diligent society has to be in deciding who can have them unless of course we all want to be wiped out as a species.

yeah, drivers license testing is OBVIOUSLY working real well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year

firearms are more restricted than EVER before internationally, and have been around for hundreds of years, and the species continues to survive
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
It doesnt MAKE people more bold anymore than a BMW MAKES you drive like an asshole.
It just finds out what you're really made of.

Question: Do you think Michael Dunn would have asked the teens to turn their music down or George Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if they didn't have guns?
 

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,240
2
76
Question: Do you think Michael Dunn would have asked the teens to turn their music down or George Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if they didn't have guns?

that's like asking your Dog what the meaning of life is

unanswerable.

nice diversion though :rolleyes:
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
that's like asking your Dog what the meaning of life is

unanswerable.

nice diversion though :rolleyes:

Actually, it's not unanswerable. Seeing as I was asking shortylickens his opinion, I think he can answer. Thanks for trying to answer for him though. :rolleyes:
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
Question: Do you think Michael Dunn would have asked the teens to turn their music down or George Zimmerman would have gotten out of his truck if they didn't have guns?

I dont know what zimmerman is really like deep down inside or what he would have done with given inputs XYZ. I do know the trayvon incident gave us a little taste of his personality. Not the full picture, but some pieces.

If Zim is actually a coward then I suppose he may not have chased or challenged anyone without a gun on that particular night. That doesnt make his heart any less cowardly or violent and it doesn't make him less dangerous as a human being. We managed to slaughter each other in massive numbers before guns even existed.

But even if guns were completely outlawed AND confiscated, people would either acquire them illegally or improvise weapons. Thats what happens in the other "1st world" countries that ban weapons.

Education and employment has a substantially greater impact on crime than the availability of weapons or drugs.

I stand by my motto: The problem is the people, not the objects.

I think the real issue here is americans are so shallow and and live in such denial that any time we are forced to take a cold hard look at the real world, we realize just how ignorant we actually are, panic, and lash out.
Zimmerman didnt understand Trayvon, he just saw a black kid in a hoodie, he got scared, panicked, and something awful happened.
People dont understand Zimmerman. Its easier to judge the guy at face value and label him one way or another rather than really sit down and think about what kind of person he was, why he thinks like he does, and argue based on emotions instead of logic.
People saw him on the beach, gave in to their emotions, and chased him off.

Do these folks not see how their knee-jerk reaction to "justice" is basically the same as Zimmermans? Do they not get the irony? You wanna lynch a vigilante cuz you think he did the wrong thing? Can you not see the broken logic here?
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
82,854
17,365
136
MICHAEL MOORE
If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?
MARILYN MANSON
I wouldn't say a single word to them I would listen to what they have to say, and that's what no one did.
 

Bird222

Diamond Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,650
132
106
I stand by my motto: The problem is the people, not the objects.

Ok great it's the people, but what are we supposed to do in the meantime while we wait for the people to get 'straightened out'? And that begs the question, what level of 'straightened out' people is good enough? Just so it is clear, I am not anti-gun. I think we as a society should work on both ends (i.e. work on the people and have good gun policies). What's wrong with that?
 

Ranulf

Platinum Member
Jul 18, 2001
2,382
1,262
136
Let's start with procreation and intelligence/income.

Come on now, we've learned in the past 230 years that poll taxes, literacy tests, property requirements (income as it were) are all unconstitutional, immoral, evil and just plain wrong. Heck, even old voter ID requirements are disenfranchising to the average citizen and should be illegal. But competency tests for gun ownership, (universal) background checks and concealed carry permits are surely a good idea and completely rational. Despite the right being openly acknowledged in the second ammendment of the US Constitution.

:)
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,386
5,812
136
Come on now, we've learned in the past 230 years that poll taxes, literacy tests, property requirements (income as it were) are all unconstitutional, immoral, evil and just plain wrong. Heck, even old voter ID requirements are disenfranchising to the average citizen and should be illegal. But competency tests for gun ownership, (universal) background checks and concealed carry permits are surely a good idea and completely rational. Despite the right being openly acknowledged in the second ammendment of the US Constitution.

:)
And I can't buy beer, tobacco, my scripts, get welfare, social security, disability, ebt, unemployment, .....without an ID.

You've got my vote, brother.:p
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,371
14
61
Oh no. I must be a mad man since I ordered 500 rounds of FULL METAL JACKET! That's the stuff the military uses!
ehu3e8yz.jpg