I think I got scammed, what to do? Advice?

[deadken]

I'm going to say that you are likely going to be liable for paying the inflated price.

First off, DO NOT let this bad experience sour the car you have. Enjoy the car. Blame the dealer. Do not blame the car or manufacturer. I can imagine this experience leaving such a sour taste in your mouth that you could associate the car with 'bad experience'. Please don't let that happen.

I'm wondering if the dealership has parking spaces open in front of it. When I was younger, we had a Chevy dealership one town over (near our high school). Someone was apparently upset with the car they bought from 'Lion Chevrolet'. So much so, that they made up signs that said: I bought a Lemon from Lion and got helium balloons on ribbons. They parked that car in front of the dealership, put the signs inside the windshields and tied the ribbons with the helium balloons on them to the doors / antenna / etc... I don't know that the dealership ever did what was necessary to make right on the car, but I do know that a lot of people who drove buy likely NEVER bought a car from Lion Chevrolet. Everyone who walked in the front door had to see that car!

In 90 days or so, you are going to get a questionnaire in the mail asking about your experience with the dealership. Perhaps you want to talk with the manager again when you have received that questionnaire? I'd think that putting down bad scores across the board would hurt them in the JD Powers scores. Maybe they think that as a young man you would never fill that kind of thing out. Maybe they need to know that you are looking forward to getting it and looking forward to sending it in.

Frankly, I don't see you getting back the money they 'over-charged' you. At best they might come up with a way to lessen the amount (lower the sales price a bit, save you $1,000 in the financing rate, give free maintenance for a period of time, etc...). Though I wouldn't trust them with ANYTHING from now on. IOW: Would they really perform the service, really lower the rate, etc??? Having said that, I will tell you that while I worked at dealerships, there was a guy who used to come down from corporate to help resolve issues that the dealership couldn't resolve on their own. I remember one customer who didn't like the color of the paint on his car (which he chose on his own from those little paint chip samples on the brochures). The dealership would NOT take the car back, nor paint it a different color (which I think he suggested). End result was that he bitched enough that when the company representative came down, he had an appointment to see him. He got a $1,000 taken off the price of that car. I don't know if that would still happen today or not (it was literally 20 years ago and Dodge / Chrysler was doing what they could to keep people from hating them).



I'm sorry to hear of your experience and I wish you the best in resolving it.

 

[Razor1289]

Ok ok lol, seeing from all the responses, I see the writing on the wall and chalk this up as an expensive lesson. I was dumb and did not read over everything as I should have. Although while apparently not illegal, it’s very deceptive and unethical in my eyes. Also another additional info although I doubt it would make any difference - my mother was with me throughout all these dealings and witnessed the same thing I did.

They would have screwed you too, if you gave them the chance.

I think the chances of being screwed were a lot less since the itemized cost/paper work of the offer was actually done right in my face and the copy given to me. They were even willing to hold the car for 2 days with that offer while I decide

You talked about borrowing the rest of the money, do you even know what your interest rate is at this very moment? I wouldn't be surprised if they put you in like a 12% APR.

My interest rate is 2.4% for 75 months, but I will be paying it off way before then.

Congrats on the new Camaro... I have one too. I don't think there is much you can do with all the paperwork signed and several days later. Email GM and stuff, make a stink if you can but I don't know if it will get you anywhere. And yeah I know that there are shady dealers out there that may try to scam people like this, but it really could have just been a mistake on their part. It does happen.
At this point I would probably just try to forget about it and just enjoy the new car.

Thanks. I honestly believe it definitely was not a mistake and that they pulled something underhanded. He withheld a pretty important piece of document from me and proceeded to tell me he did give it to me when I confronted him a week later.
But oh well, just have to get over it and try to enjoy the car.

What they did is ethically wrong, but you can't prove any legal wrongdoing. Car dealers (not just Chevy, in case that's what you're thinking) love to sell to people like you. Didn't you do any research on buying cars? You fell for a few classic traps:

• No written quote referencing the exact vehicle
• Negotiating late in the day, when you are tired and in a rush
• Not using the lateness of the day to your advantage. (Tell them to make a deal before they close. Or else you are leaving.)
• Signing documents that you didn't read or understand (Seriously?)
• Not being stubborn; not standing your ground. WTF is that crap about your documents being locked away and they can't access it? LOL!

I really hate it that you were victimized. Give us the name of the dealership, and perhaps Internet justice will be meted! :twisted:

Technically speaking, I don't think you were 'scammed.'

There was a written quote. The salesperson wrote it in front of my face, but then he never gave it to me/withheld it.

The name of the dealership is Bical Chevrolet: http://www.bicalchevy.com/
I’m reading up various reviews on them and there seems to be a trend of abysmal dealings with this specific dealership from other people. Some of these poor reviews specifically stated problems with the same person(s) I was dealing with.

Yelp: http://www.yelp.com/biz/bical-chevrolet-valley-stream
Google Reviews: https://plus.google.com/117083004808359319223/about
Cars.com: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...s/+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/repairshops/NewYork/ValleyStream/BicalChevrolet/service.1.html
BBB: http://www.bbb.org/new-york-city/Bu...rs/bical-chevrolet-in-valley-stream-ny-106370

I'm going to say that you are likely going to be liable for paying the inflated price.

First off, DO NOT let this bad experience sour the car you have. Enjoy the car. Blame the dealer. Do not blame the car or manufacturer. I can imagine this experience leaving such a sour taste in your mouth that you could associate the car with 'bad experience'. Please don't let that happen.

I'm wondering if the dealership has parking spaces open in front of it. When I was younger, we had a Chevy dealership one town over (near our high school). Someone was apparently upset with the car they bought from 'Lion Chevrolet'. So much so, that they made up signs that said: I bought a Lemon from Lion and got helium balloons on ribbons. They parked that car in front of the dealership, put the signs inside the windshields and tied the ribbons with the helium balloons on them to the doors / antenna / etc... I don't know that the dealership ever did what was necessary to make right on the car, but I do know that a lot of people who drove buy likely NEVER bought a car from Lion Chevrolet. Everyone who walked in the front door had to see that car!

In 90 days or so, you are going to get a questionnaire in the mail asking about your experience with the dealership. Perhaps you want to talk with the manager again when you have received that questionnaire? I'd think that putting down bad scores across the board would hurt them in the JD Powers scores. Maybe they think that as a young man you would never fill that kind of thing out. Maybe they need to know that you are looking forward to getting it and looking forward to sending it in.

Frankly, I don't see you getting back the money they 'over-charged' you. At best they might come up with a way to lessen the amount (lower the sales price a bit, save you $1,000 in the financing rate, give free maintenance for a period of time, etc...). Though I wouldn't trust them with ANYTHING from now on. IOW: Would they really perform the service, really lower the rate, etc??? Having said that, I will tell you that while I worked at dealerships, there was a guy who used to come down from corporate to help resolve issues that the dealership couldn't resolve on their own. I remember one customer who didn't like the color of the paint on his car (which he chose on his own from those little paint chip samples on the brochures). The dealership would NOT take the car back, nor paint it a different color (which I think he suggested). End result was that he bitched enough that when the company representative came down, he had an appointment to see him. He got a $1,000 taken off the price of that car. I don't know if that would still happen today or not (it was literally 20 years ago and Dodge / Chrysler was doing what they could to keep people from hating them).



I'm sorry to hear of your experience and I wish you the best in resolving it.

I’m sure I’ll get over it in a few weeks, but yeah its just hard to enjoy it at the moment knowing I was ripped off. It’s pretty much safe to assume that I will definitely not be going back to them for anything.

Thank you everyone for your input.

 

[Meghan54]

Lol. I was going to tell him to stfu too but not as eloquently

How true.
Zen strikes again!

 

[SolMiester]

I thought there is a grace period on all HP agreements?.....

 

[Zenmervolt]

There was a written quote. The salesperson wrote it in front of my face, but then he never gave it to me/withheld it.

Unless it specified the specific VIN of the vehicle you were negotiating about and expressly stated in the writing that the number was the price the dealership was offering the specific car to you at, it wasn't a price quote. Jotting a lone number on a piece of scrap paper is not a written quote.

An actual quote would need to have language like the following:

The undersigned, on behalf of XYZ Dealership, offers to sell to Raznor1289 the 2013 Camaro, VIN: XXXXXXXXXXXXX, for $28,480. This price shall include all taxes and associated fees.

The language need not be identical, but it needs to address all the points in order for it to be an actual price quote.

ZV

 

[pcgeek11]

I thought there is a grace period on all HP agreements?.....

That only applies if they come to you with an offer.

If you go to them looking to purchase the 3 day grace period doesn't apply.

 

[ino uno soweno]

Hello, long time reader of Anand forums but I post sparingly.

I am a first time car buyer, and after 3 weeks of researching and after visiting various Chevrolet dealerships, I recently bought a 2013 1LT Camaro with navigation and crystal red metallic tint coat premium color as the only additional options on July 18th at a dealership nearby.

Backstory (be warned, wall of text):

I walked in on July 18th at around 5:30pm and started negotiating with the salesperson. He offered me the sticker price of $29,185 initially. I then promptly mentioned that I am negotiating out the door price only. He asked me if I can prove to him and his manager that I am serious about buying the car by giving him a credit card to show to his manager, to which I complied. After some back and forth between me, him, and his sales manager, he offered me $28,480 out the door and wrote it down in a piece of blank paper. I compared it to my online research (Edmunds, TrueCar, carsdirect etc…) on prices for this car as well as the prices I was given at other dealerships and found it to be the best deal out of all of them and agreed to take it.

So they get the car ready, and at this point no finances or a detailed breakdown of the cost has been discussed yet. He asks me if I want to leave with it tonight and I said if possible, yes. He then asks me how much I was going to put on the down payment and I told him $12,000, but I also mentioned we did not have the bank check at the time and we would probably need to come back. He said it was fine and I could drive it out tonight if I put down just $500 and come back with $11,500 on Saturday, to which I complied.

So 30 minutes later we then talk to the Finance person since I needed to take out a loan to cover the rest of the cost. This was already late into the night and in good faith I signed all the papers (lol huge mistake). Moments later I was given the key, a duplicate key, car manual, window sticker, warranty booklet, and a paper that has my Onstar Subscription Confirmation. I was NOT given a copy of the Purchase Agreement that broke down all the costs in detail. Being a first time car buyer I did not know what other documents I was supposed to be receiving, and off I drove home with my Camaro. We came back on Saturday July 20th with the rest of the $11,500 down payment. He gave us a packet that listed our loan information and financial obligations (titled Retail Instalment Contract – Simple Finance Charge). With my busy schedule I wasn’t able to review it until 4 days later and that’s when I noticed the numbers were definitely not what we agreed on, however we don’t know the complete breakdown of it since the Retail Instalment Contract doesn’t list all the costs and misc. fees that went into the car.

On Saturday July 27th I went back to the dealership and requested the Finance person I was working with to break down the cost for me in detail. He then tells me that my files/folders were locked and that he would give me a call on Monday when it is unlocked. Monday rolls by, no calls, I give a call on Tuesday, he wasn’t in and the person I talked on the phone with took my name/number/message and was told he’d call me back Wednesday morning. Wednesday and Thursday rolls by and nothing. I went back to the dealership on Friday July 2 and requested the same Finance person to open my files and folders, (specifically the Purchase Agreement) so we can review it. I took a look at it and the Total Amount came out to be $32,765.77.

I ask him about our $28,480 out the door agreed on price and he just looked at me and was pretty much like LOLWUT? He asks us for proof of this and I have none, so I asked him for the salesperson that I negotiated with for the price. He comes, I ask him what our agreed price was that night of negotiation and conveniently he doesn’t remember, so we spent the next hour or so going back and forth with the he-said she said bull because we have no proof of our verbal agreement. He then asks us why we did not notify them right away of the discrepancy in price and I told him I was not given the breakdown of the cost (Purchase Agreement) when I drove out with the car on July 18th. In fact I was not given any copies of financial details until the Saturday we went back with the down payment. Furthermore my calls were never returned when I tried to contact the dealership. He insists he gave it to us the night I drove out with it, and I know for a fact that he didn’t. He continues to then suggest that I threw it and pretty much implied that I'm a liar.

So then the conversation degrades back to this he-said she said crap and the owner of the dealership gets involved. I requested my copy of the Purchase Agreement since they never gave it to us, he proceeds to tell me that they did give me a copy of it (false) and was very hesitant about giving this paper to me. He then makes a photocopy of his original copy to give to me because apparently he’s such a nice fucking guy that he’d do it as a courtesy. He further says that “We don’t have to give you a copy, or do this at all, but we are.” I’m just sitting there going LOLWUT?! I stated that it’s my right as a consumer to know what I’m buying and they’re just sitting there shaking their heads and practically going LOLNOPE.

I threatened to call the BBB and consumer protection agencies, somefuckinghow the Finance person (who I physically estimate to be in his late 30’s or very early 40’s) with his boss and their salespeople nearby, took this as a physical/death threat and then threatened to call 911, the police, and obtain protection/restraint against me LOL (I’m 5’7, 155lbs, he’s a bit taller than me but twice my size). The entire time I was there I never got up, always stayed sat on my seat and calm. My mother was also there with me this entire time. At this point She became increasingly frustrated at the entire ordeal, she got up from her seat and started raising her voice at them. The Finance dude apparently felt physically threated by my mom (who is 55 years old, about 5’2) that again he boldly stated he was going to call 911/police (to which he didn’t).

At this point I found all this to be utterly ridiculous and took the copy of the Purchase Agreement and just left.

Other not so fun facts:
• The sticker price that is physically in my hands right now state the Vehicle Price is $29,185 without taxes, fees, rebates, or anything. On my Purchase Agreement the Vehicle Price is $31,064 without taxes, fees, rebates, or anything. Somehow the price magically went up and they sold it to me at an increased price?
• One day prior to my purchase of this car, I was at another Chevy dealership and I was offered the same car, but with ALL the upgrades except for sunroof, for ~$30,000 out the door. Kicking myself now for not taking that deal.

Anyways to conclude this, I will be filing a complaint to the BBB and to GM/Chevy.

So now I ask you guys for advice. Is there any hope of recouping some money back? What else can I do in addition?


Thanks!

Looking on the bright side,


I had a similar car buy to yours, left a dirty taste in my mouth too, I owned the car for 10 years and never had a better car, 10 years of trouble free very reliable driving,


:biggrin:, I hope you have the same kama,

 

[dud]

All I could think of when reading this is "It's a trap!".

OP, chalk it up to experience. You were a rookie while they have all of the experience. Hext time DO NOT fall into the dealerships trap but get a quote online. Have the dealerships (within 50 miles or so of your location) compete for your business. Once you have the deal you want just walk in and sign ... but read before you sign.

As others have said ... let the world know about how you were treated. Post your experience on th eNet and advise all to avoid them. You might just get a call from the stealership!

 

[Mursilis]

Ok ok lol, seeing from all the responses, I see the writing on the wall and chalk this up as an expensive lesson. I was dumb and did not read over everything as I should have. Although while apparently not illegal, it’s very deceptive and unethical in my eyes.

It does sound like it was deceptive and unethical, but it's not rare either, or at least not as rare as it should be. Whenever (your) money's involved, you just need to have your guard up - the world is FULL of people who want your money, and they'll do almost anything to get it.

 

[disappoint]

Hell, it looks like they got him to finance the whole thing. How much you wanna bet there's a penalty for prepayment which his $11,500 "first payment" just tripped?

My interest rate is 2.4% for 75 months, but I will be paying it off way before then.

Check to make sure there is no penalty first?

 

[olds]

Check to make sure there is no penalty first?

Do they still do that? In California they don't.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Do they still do that? In California they don't.

In many places it depends on the type of loan, the type of lender, and the place where the lender is licensed.

For example, in Washington the law applies only to consumer loan companies licensed within Washington State. Even then it only forbids such penalties on loans with interest rates greater than 12%. Banks and Credit Unions are exempt regardless of interest rate.

I thought there is a grace period on all HP agreements?.....

The "three day cooling off period" only applies to purchases made in your own home or at a place other than the seller's usual place of business. It does NOT apply to purchasing a car from the dealership (nor does it apply to purchasing something in a store).

The law was put into place to provide recourse to persons subject to pressure tactics from door-to-door salesmen.

ZV

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Dealing with an OTD price can be confusing. I prefer not to do it, and going into my recent car buy, I just knew my OTD price was going to end up somewhere around ~3-4K higher than the list price after factoring in tax, fees, and financing, so I offered based off that.

I think there was just complete confusion between OTD and sticker price between OP and the dealer. The OP thought he was getting the final end all price and the dealer thought he was selling the sticker price.

OP, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a big deal. $3-4K is nothing compared to what you will earn in your life-time. Enjoy your new car and congratulations on it.

 

[Tweak155]

Just some clarification questions...

Generally when you look at the final number from a loan, it includes any interest you pay over the entire life of the loan. I'm sure 75mo even at 2.4% is going to tack on a thousand or 2 at minimum payments.

Second, if they offered you any rebates or money that kicks in for taking a loan, that also is subtracted from the retail price AFTER the fact. So you see the retail price on paper, but what YOU actually pay somewhere further down.

What I suggest doing is looking at your loan amount and adding your down payment to see what you actually paid. I'll be shocked if it comes to $32.7k.

EDIT:

Also your responses and detailed explanation were great. Being a first time car buyer you must be reasonably young, but well balanced. Just keep brushing the pricks off.

 

[Insomniator]

I think you should just burn the dealership down.

But seriously regardless of who is at fault here, why the fuck does this actually still happen? Why do dealerships (and mechanics for that matter) have to be scumbags? What is it about automobiles that makes seemingly everyone in the industry a piece of shit?

 

[njdevilsfan87]

What I suggest doing is looking at your loan amount and adding your down payment to see what you actually paid. I'll be shocked if it comes to $32.7k.

Car Loan Payment Calc

Vehicle Price : $28,500
Downpayment : $12,000
Trade-in : $0
Sales Tax : 8%
Interest Rate : 2.4%
Term : 75 months

= ~$270/month x 75 months + 12,000 = $32,250

Two things to account for : Sales tax could be less, but the dealer fee of $250-$500 will bring it right back up to around $32K OTD. The financing itself, disregarding everything else, looks fine.

 

[Tweak155]

Car Loan Payment Calc

Vehicle Price : $28,500
Downpayment : $12,000
Trade-in : $0
Sales Tax : 8%
Interest Rate : 2.4%
Term : 75 months

= ~$270/month x 75 months + 12,000 = $32,250

Two things to account for : Sales tax could be less, but the dealer fee of $250-$500 will bring it right back up to around $32K OTD. The financing itself, disregarding everything else, looks fine.

Its not $32k OTD, its $32k when you make your 75th payment to your loan.

OTD its more like $30 or $31k. You expect them to adjust the price of the vehicle so when you make the 75th payment it is $28500 (or any other "OTD" price)? Ridiculous.

Only the tax and dealer fees should be in the OTD price, not the interest on the loan.

 

[MagickMan]

I buy cars by doing some research, working out the cash in advance, then writing a check for what I feel is the right price to pay. I tell the salesman that's all they're getting from me and if they can't work it out I'll buy somewhere else. It's never failed me.

 

[smackababy]

I buy cars by doing some research, working out the cash in advance, then writing a check for what I feel is the right price to pay. I tell the salesman that's all they're getting from me and if they can't work it out I'll buy somewhere else. It's never failed me.

But car salesmen don't like customers like you. They prefer to be able to sell them more than they want and convince them they can afford it. "Why buy this model for $30k cash, when you can put $30k down on this $60K model and get all this extra!?!" "Oh, you bring home $3,000 after taxes, of course can you can afford a $1,200 a month payment!"

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Its not $32k OTD, its $32k when you make your 75th payment to your loan.

OTD its more like $30 or $31k. You expect them to adjust the price of the vehicle so when you make the 75th payment it is $28500 (or any other "OTD" price)? Ridiculous.

Only the tax and dealer fees should be in the OTD price, not the interest on the loan.

Hm, I always thought OTD included interest, sort of like a "total final end all be" price you have to pay back. Well, total bummer to the OP. But I still go by what I said in my first post word for word.

OP, in the grand scheme of things, this isn't a big deal. $3-4K is nothing compared to what you will earn in your life-time. Enjoy your new car and congratulations on it.

 

[JCH13]

But car salesmen don't like customers like you. They prefer to be able to sell them more than they want and convince them they can afford it. "Why buy this model for $30k cash, when you can put $30k down on this $60K model and get all this extra!?!" "Oh, you bring home $3,000 after taxes, of course can you can afford a $1,200 a month payment!"

I use a tactic similar to MagicMan. Salesmen don't like it, but I do not give a shit what they like. My money is still green, and they will still take it, albeit begrudgingly sometimes.

 

[Ferzerp]

I use a tactic similar to MagicMan. Salesmen don't like it, but I do not give a shit what they like. My money is still green, and they will still take it, albeit begrudgingly sometimes.

Last purchase, I had a target price out the door, told them my preference (which I knew was a little low), we went back and forth, came within $400 of it, I wrote a check and we were done.

Even if you're financing, nothing says you must finance at the dealership. The last car that I financed a portion of, I secured from a bank before I even went looking. The dealer has incentives to upsell you (or just lie) on loans.

 

[mvbighead]

I use a tactic similar to MagicMan. Salesmen don't like it, but I do not give a shit what they like. My money is still green, and they will still take it, albeit begrudgingly sometimes.

This. Quite simply, it is the best method.

The one and only thing I need to learn about car sales is the willingness to walk out of a bad deal, or one where they screw me around too much. Had that on my car, and I finally ended up taking it. When they asked me to write a check to "prove my intent", I should have written the amount as something perhaps vulgar, but I was nervous and complied.

In the end, a cash deal where you don't involve their finance person is easy. I want to give you X for this car. Take it or leave it.

 

[kitatech]

This. Quite simply, it is the best method.

In the end, a cash deal where you don't involve their finance person is easy. I want to give you X for this car. Take it or leave it.

Yes, the only OTD price is when financing is NOT done at the dealer...because the finance cost is NOT a cost of the car but a cost of the loan.

OTD is the bottom line on any contract...the number BELOW the bottom line actually.

I give dealers that number and tell that they can do anything they want with numbers ABOVE the line, but the number BELOW the last line can not change...

That's how I got my last 4 used cars.....and just gave them a check/credit card and drove away.

 

[KDKPSJ]

That was my tactics back in 2010 when I bought 09 G37x Coupe (all options except $ 2.5k tech pkg) for $ 38k OTD. MSRP was close to $ 48k, but I found out from web that because 10 MY was due in few months and the dealers were in hurry to move 09 inventory out of lot.

So, I wrote a simple email to three local Infiniti dealers; "I am willing to purchase G37x Coupe with Premium & Navigation Package for $ 38k OTD. Reply me back if you can accept" Two replied, and I just went to the one closer. Walked in, chose the color, worked on financing through Nissan/Infiniti, and left with the car. Financing was for $ 38k because I didn't make any downpayment. Whole thing took like 30 min.

In order to get to the $ 38k, they started with $ 38k at the bottom of the contract/purchase order, and worked the numbers backward to the top. It was the best method I used, and will use the exact way when I shop for my next car sometime next year.

What I find, though, is that OTD tactic works best when you negotiate over the web as it has a proof that we are looking at the same number. When I tried to negotiate OTD number while I was at the dealer, I experienced very similar to what OP fell into. Salesperson acts like they have no idea what OTD means, and tries to play around with number. (Too bad for them that I am an accountant, so I am good at number. lol)