I really need to eat healthier, help me out!

[PeterScott]

One article here, which doesn't really have any study but instead analyzes the body of studies around TMAO as a cursor to vascular problems: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5127123/

The specific quote I mentioned is from this study : https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/146/2/283/4630826 which was based on self reporting, so possibly not quite as accurate as a lab specific study, but has good number of data points. Some interesting points in that though (eg fish intake increases TMAO significantly, however the other benefits of fish consumption seem to improve heart health)

Eggs are the first whole food animal product I would ditch. The risk to benefit ratio is the worse among any whole food that exists IMO.

The cholesterol issue is real, and dietary cholesterol does raise serum cholesterol, despite misleading "studies" funded by the egg industry.

Eggs have ~200 mg of cholesterol in a very small package. Who eats 1 egg? When I was younger, and not paying attention, I would make scrambled eggs/omlets out of 4 eggs. If I was having eggs in in a breakfast special it was usually 2+ eggs. 2 eggs alone is over the daily recommended cholesterol intake.

Then there is the TMAO issue, while not as clear cut as cholesterol, it's another potential issue.

There is another linkage with high choline intake and lethal prostate cancer.

What do you really get out of eggs to balance that?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wait now eggs and fish are not healthy anymore?

See this is why it's so hard. There's so much mixed science about nutrition it's just ridiculous.

 

[PeterScott]

Wait now eggs and fish are not healthy anymore?

See this is why it's so hard. There's so much mixed science about nutrition it's just ridiculous.

Just like there was "mixed" science saying cigarettes were harmless, or lead in gas was harmless. It's industry funded studies put out there to mislead and confuse.

There still may be a case for small amounts of fish because they are really the only significant source of Long Chain Omega 3 fatty acids: DHA/EPA.

In theory we can synthesize these from short chain ALA (Flax/walnuts/chia), but it appears this may be less than optimal in some people, suggesting a benefit of small amounts of fish consumption or DHA/EPA supplementation.

But still fish isn't the cornerstone of your diet, think of more like a supplement you have once or twice a week.

 

[Muse]

I prefer cashews myself.

They're OK, I like them raw, also roasted. But nowadays I'm super liking roasted hazelnuts. I buy them preroasted and unsalted at Trader Joe's. I keep 5 kinds of nuts in my freezer and keep a container of all 5 mixed together in my refrigerator. Nuts go rancid over a period if you don't freeze them, more slowly than room temperature of course if refrigerated, but frozen they keep for long periods. And I don't find that freezing has a bad effect on taste, etc.

 

[mike8675309]

Wait now eggs and fish are not healthy anymore?

See this is why it's so hard. There's so much mixed science about nutrition it's just ridiculous.

Eggs have never been healthy and the doctors have known it. There has been a concerted effort by the egg industry to lie to the public. Legally they can't anymore, but they still try to phrase things to imply eggs are OK. to eat.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/who-says-eggs-arent-healthy-or-safe/

Nothing that comes out of the ocean can be considered a health food anymore. Even fish hatcheries produce fish that have negative impact on your health. The only positive impact fish has been said to have is the Omega 3 oils. This is because the standard american diet is so heavy in Omega 6 oils that the balance our bodies need is out of whack.

 

[PeterScott]

It is almost beyond belief how badly we have polluted the planet, and marine life really does seem to be the most contaminated.

Not enough attention is paid to Persistent Organic Pollutants(POPs) like PCBs/Dioxin.

They keep pointing out Salmon as low in Mercury, yet Salmon picks up so much POPs in the ocean, that spawning Salmon are polluting pristine Alaskan Lake by swimming upstream and spawning. After that they die and their pollution load gets released in to the formerly pristine lakes:
https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/23/...haul-toxins-to-alaska-lakes-experts-find.html
"But in Alaska you have no other source. So these fish are serving as vectors. There's just no end to the surprises of how contaminants can reach pristine places in our environments.''

To be fair they also say:
"Dr. Blais said that the phenomenon was detrimental to the freshwater environments where the salmon spawned, but that it should not stop most people from eating fish.

''In this case, you'd have to eat about seven meals a week to reach threshold levels,'' he said. ''It wouldn't be fair to imply that the salmon are unsafe to eat.''

POPs are pretty much everywhere in our food supply. Highest in marine foods, next highest land animal food, and negligible amounts in plant food. Long time Vegans have the lowest blood levels of POPs.

 

[paperfist]

You can also make your own 'fast food'. I have high fiber flat bread that I use for pizzas.

Quality beef for burgers. Use a sweet potatoe for fries instead of white ones.

Greens are pretty wicked in a shake.

 

[Muse]

POPs are pretty much everywhere in our food supply. Highest in marine foods, next highest land animal food, and negligible amounts in plant food. Long time Vegans have the lowest blood levels of POPs.

I like to say I don't eat enough meat to keep a cat alive. I think it's true. But I think I've been eating too many eggs, am thinking to cut back now. Even organic eggs (what I've been eating) I think aren't very good for me.

I think I should pay attention to my protein intake, I'm pretty active, do strenuous things. I think I get a lot of my protein from nonfat dry milk, hopefully that isn't too bad.

 

[PeterScott]

I like to say I don't eat enough meat to keep a cat alive. I think it's true. But I think I've been eating too many eggs, am thinking to cut back now. Even organic eggs (what I've been eating) I think aren't very good for me.

I think I should pay attention to my protein intake, I'm pretty active, do strenuous things. I think I get a lot of my protein from nonfat dry milk, hopefully that isn't too bad.

People needlessly worry about inadequate protein, when there is near zero chance of that unless you are starving. You would have to work hard to find someone in a first world country, that wasn't starving themselves, that was protein deficient.

 

[Muse]

I don't worry about protein much but I do notice sometimes when I eat a meal that seems pretty thin on protein. That happens a lot. I just visited a site that said that NFDM is OK because there's almost no cholesterol in it but powdered milk in general isn't a good idea because it's going to contain oxidized cholesterol, which is a very bad kind. Same for powdered eggs, which I have been using for years. I guess I'll have to give that up. I have powdered egg whites, that's OK.

 

[whm1974]

Clicked on the link and nothing happens.

 

[mike8675309]

I don't worry about protein much but I do notice sometimes when I eat a meal that seems pretty thin on protein. That happens a lot. I just visited a site that said that NFDM is OK because there's almost no cholesterol in it but powdered milk in general isn't a good idea because it's going to contain oxidized cholesterol, which is a very bad kind. Same for powdered eggs, which I have been using for years. I guess I'll have to give that up. I have powdered egg whites, that's OK.

diets higher in protein can help you feel more satisfied after a meal. Protein sources are often more calorie dense as well. You may not be planning your meals well enough to ensure you are getting enough calories on days when you have less protein.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Protein is hard to get if you don't eat a lot of meat. I don't tend to eat meat every single day so I use protein shakes especially if I work out that day.

 

[PeterScott]

Protein is hard to get if you don't eat a lot of meat. I don't tend to eat meat every single day so I use protein shakes especially if I work out that day.

This is a myth, unless you subsisting on fruit and donuts.

My morning oatmeal has ~24 grams of protein. That is just Oatmeal, Almonds, Flax, raspberries. No meat/egg/dairy in sight.

I made no attempt to make this protein rich. I just wanted some good, healthy whole foods.

It still looks like you are protein obsessed.

 

[paperfist]

diets higher in protein can help you feel more satisfied after a meal. Protein sources are often more calorie dense as well. You may not be planning your meals well enough to ensure you are getting enough calories on days when you have less protein.

There must be something wrong with me cause I can eat a cow and still feel hungry. Protein doesn't fill me up at all, but nuts do.

 

[mike8675309]

There must be something wrong with me cause I can eat a cow and still feel hungry. Protein doesn't fill me up at all, but nuts do.

They try starches like sweet potatoes or white potatoes. Those are also know to help some people feel satisfied.

 

[whm1974]

They try starches like sweet potatoes or white potatoes. Those are also know to help some people feel satisfied.

White potatoes definitely will do that. I'm full after I eat two of them with butter.

 

[paperfist]

They try starches like sweet potatoes or white potatoes. Those are also know to help some people feel satisfied.

Nah I'm trying to limit the evil carbs.

I wasn't really complaining, just saying protein doesn't fill me up. I know it does for a lot of people.

 

[deadlyapp]

This is a myth, unless you subsisting on fruit and donuts.

My morning oatmeal has ~24 grams of protein. That is just Oatmeal, Almonds, Flax, raspberries. No meat/egg/dairy in sight.

I made no attempt to make this protein rich. I just wanted some good, healthy whole foods.

It still looks like you are protein obsessed.

But your protein intake from that meal is heavily outweighted by your carb and fat intake. Oatmeal is not a protein source. Nuts are not a protein source. Fruit is not a protein source. Those are all either carb or fat sources.

The fact of the matter is, the only way to get significant amount of protein (short of supplementation methods) is to eat animal products.

 

[PeterScott]

But your protein intake from that meal is heavily outweighted by your carb and fat intake. Oatmeal is not a protein source. Nuts are not a protein source. Fruit is not a protein source. Those are all either carb or fat sources.

The fact of the matter is, the only way to get significant amount of protein (short of supplementation methods) is to eat animal products.

You mean the only way to get unbalanced amounts of protein for a fad high protein, low carb diet?

Because otherwise there is no reason to worry that you are getting more carbs/fat than protein.

For healthy eating, you should definitely be getting more carbs than protein.

But really you shouldn't obsess about macros, you should just eat healthy foods (mostly/all plants), and you can do spot checks on Cronometer or similar, if you are worried you are protein deficient, but that is extremely unlikely if you are eating adequate calories.

 

[deadlyapp]

You mean the only way to get unbalanced amounts of protein for a fad high protein, low carb diet?

Because otherwise there is no reason to worry that you are getting more carbs/fat than protein.

For healthy eating, you should definitely be getting more carbs than protein.

But really you shouldn't obsess about macros, you should just eat healthy foods (mostly/all plants), and you can do spot checks on Cronometer or similar, if you are worried you are protein deficient, but that is extremely unlikely if you are eating adequate calories.

I dare say that there are plenty of studies indicating the benefits of increased protein intake for those focused on resistance training & muscle growth, and while there are certainly some anomalies who are vegan strength athletes (Kendrick Farris is the first that comes to mind), it would be difficult to even take in .5g of protein / lb through whole plant foods and carb sources without exceeding your daily calorie expenditure. Carbs should be used to replenish glycogen stores and varied based on your activity level. The rest coming from healthy fats.

On any given training day I'm usually around 40% protein, 40% carbs, and 20% fat, so I don't subscribe to a fad diet, I try to manage based on my activity levels to promote muscle growth, reduce muscle loss (when in a calorie deficit), and limit fat stores.

 

[PeterScott]

I dare say that there are plenty of studies indicating the benefits of increased protein intake for those focused on resistance training & muscle growth, and while there are certainly some anomalies who are vegan strength athletes (Kendrick Farris is the first that comes to mind), it would be difficult to even take in .5g of protein / lb through whole plant foods and carb sources without exceeding your daily calorie expenditure. Carbs should be used to replenish glycogen stores and varied based on your activity level. The rest coming from healthy fats.

He isn't an anomaly, there are Vegan athletes performing at high levels in every sport, including MMA,Strongman,Bodybuilding,NFL,NHL,NBA, etc...

Vegans are a small proportion of the population, so they are also a small proportion of pro sports as well, but they aren't anomalies.

 

[mike8675309]

I dare say that there are plenty of studies indicating the benefits of increased protein intake for those focused on resistance training & muscle growth, and while there are certainly some anomalies who are vegan strength athletes (Kendrick Farris is the first that comes to mind), it would be difficult to even take in .5g of protein / lb through whole plant foods and carb sources without exceeding your daily calorie expenditure.
...

He isn't an anomaly, there are Vegan athletes performing at high levels in every sport, including MMA,Strongman,Bodybuilding,NFL,NHL,NBA, etc...

Vegans are a small proportion of the population, so they are also a small proportion of pro sports as well, but they aren't anomalies.

Exactly. One of the big challenges is that current protein recommendations are far from ideal but keeps on getting perpetuated because it doesn't really harm anyone. I'll be doing a 8 week cut with the help of a vegan trainer here in a few days. I'll see what the calorie and macro recommendations come from someone with experience and is an IFBB Pro body builder and certified trainer.

 

[HutchinsonJC]

Share that with us Mike 🙂

 

[mike8675309]

Here is the crew I'm working with. I will start a log once I get started on it and I will include before and after pictures. I'm currently carrying a good 5lbs above my normal overweight weight due to some stresses at work over the last 2 months causing me to miss the gym and my running. I'm hoping this guy will give me some ways to shake up my workouts in the gym as I've been in a bit of a rut and have been thinking of changing but no real direction on what to change.
https://veganfitness.com/true-strength/?r=ign