I REALLY need help on a processor decision.

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imported_Bond

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2005
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First off, I reallly appreciate the time anyone takes to read and respond to this.
I have read through this forum a bit, and decided to join in the hopes of getting some educated help in a frustrating decision I have to make.
Here goes: I recently sold a system, and am about to give my Pentium 4, 2.6 overclocked to 3.1 to my Daughter. The MB was an Asus P4P800 and I loved it. But, I want to upgrade now.
Here is what I do: Transfer large files back and forth between two computers on a network. Photoshop, Acrobat, DivX and MPEG 2 encoding, WinRar and the usual word processor, E-mail. And of course, some gaming.
I became concerned about the "Nuclear" generating capability of the Pentium 4 3.6 Gig and also am frustrated with the lack of upgradability of the 915/925 Intel chipsets.
So, I was an Intel guy, but am giving some serious consideration to AMD.
Trouble is that most of the tests out there I have read rely heaviliy on gaming, with only a little of the other tests. Sharkys had a pretty good review here: http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_3429701__1
It seems to show the Intel as a better chip for what I do.
I really would like some input as to what you guys/gals think. I am as old as dirt. :confused:Been in this industry since 1989 and have never seen it change so fast. I get the feeling that the 915 is a stop gap. Whereas the Nviidia Nforce 4 is a well thought out chipset.
Please, what are your suggestions.
1. Am I right in thinking that Hyperthreading will allow me to do more than one task at once like I do now on my PC. Winrar large files, downloading over highspeed, MPEG 2 compression all at the same time. Or is Hyperthreading Intel marketing styke.
Will AMD 64 bit 3500 do the same?
2.Is anyone doing similar things with their PC and doing it with the AMD 64 bit 3500 and is happy with it's performance?
3. I think the 2.2 gig 3500+ can overclock fairly good, can I get as much as I could out of the 3.6 pentium 4 775? (Which I have read can go to 3.9 Gig easy)
4. I have read that there will be NO upgrade currently for the Pentium dual core.
However there is a rumor that the new socket 939 Motherboards out there WILL take the AMD dual core when it is released. Fact or Fiction?

Thanks so much in advance to any help given to me. It is very much appreciated.

Bond.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
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I won't touch any Socket 775 P4 if I were you. Reasons:

1. Risk of thermal throttling. Your chip may not work at the clock speed Intel advertises on the box.
2. Absurd heat output
3. A64's are superior in every way maybe except in one or two video encoding or 3D rendering apps, even then the P4E wins by a very small margin.

And btw all LGA775 boards are PCI-E only (Out of luck with a high-end card such as 6800GT), and none of them has SLI support (if it ever matters).
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
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Mulittasking and some of the apps you are runing are going to be faster on a p4 system but not necessarily your 3.1...If you got say a newer northwood p4c chip like 3.2 or 3.4 and tried to push it to 3.7 to 3.8ghz it would be better at what you mentioned, IMO....Should be cooler then its presshite bretheren.....

Otherwise an A64 system oc'd a bit will be faster then your 3.1 setup in all those apps.


"3. A64's are superior in every way maybe except in one or two video encoding or 3D rendering apps, even then the P4E wins by a very small margin."

It is a bit more then 1 or 2 apps...trust me....

Dvdshrinking was faster on my p4 3.5 when used with deep analysis
TMPGenc was a heck of a lot faser on my p4 3.5 when used the multithreaded option
Pinnacle 8.8 was slightly faster (it had a 10% gain with HT in my testing)
Divx 5.10 (the last I tested on gknot) was faster on my P4 system

If I tried more I bet there would have been more...

It seems with my 3.5 which had one heelluva oc'd bus (292fsb) with HT aware apps thei A64 does equal it or loses to it in a majority of encoding apps, and 1/2 of MY CAD apps....Everything else has gone the way of the A64 board for me....

I miss the multitasking ability...I use to FH 24/7 and used the computer non stop...actually would get WU's done but thast doesn't happen on this PC.....

Dont get me wrong the HT is merely a crutch the p4 uses to correct its architecture...too long of stage pipe...largelantencies...huge penalties for branch mispredicitions...long idle wait states...

I would not get a prescott, for reasons of thermal....I think the A64 may be th ebest option if for anything its dual core cpu will blow Intels out of the water...hecnce you will understand why I switched at thios point when I had a kick arse P4 system....
 
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imported_Bond

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2005
5
0
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Thanks so much Duvie,

Your response is consistant and very well informed.
I really appreciate your candor. And I am glad you have had a Pentium 4 and switched. Nothing talks like experience.
I am curious, you mention missing the multitasking ability, what do you mean by FH, and WU?
I also multitask, I will be doing something like E-mail, lotus notes, etc while doing a Divx encode.
Will I get similar performance?, or did you notice that the AMD 64 will slow down to a crawl while doing these things simultanously.
I have no problem with the slower encode times. Tiz okay with me.
I don't want to have to be kept waiting while encoding a large file, and doing something else.
I realize that hardrives play a part in this too, but I am specifically dealing with processor here, everthing else being equal.
Thanks again Duvie for your well informed response.
And thanks to all who responded.

Bond.
 
S

Siddy

Member
Jan 29, 2005
75
0
0
ROFL, always get AMD, there is no comparison, they run cooler and faster, with a lower voltage, and easier/better to OC.
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
FH is Folding at Home a distributed Computing application....WU are work unit...

In the apps you listed you wont have much of a difference...it is mainly in 2 cpu intensive applications....IF like Folding at home while divx encoding...In both cases Divx will be done fast but in the P4 case the FH work unit will actually get some cycles to do some work...In a cpu intensive app liek Divx there will be little extra cpu cycles for the FH so little or no work will be done until the encoding is done....

Other examples are encoding while gaming....encoding using an HT app and then doing mutliple application like burning a DVD, watching a DVD or mpg with WMP and maybe donwloading stuff of the net. These are all things that will benefit the P4 a bit better....

It shouldn't really be about waiting even for and AMD system...Most of the divx encoding apps wil take what they get so I can run other things fine it just will greatly increase the time to encode...I encode my HDTV CSI rips to DVD all the time and I can do other things fine with TMPGenc....The P4 just did more.....

I tested way back with a Barton and P4 about trying to lag the system and what would lag the Barton the P4 handled. I credit some of that to the HT of the P4 but it took a lot to get either system to bog down so it probably wasn't indicative of normal use....
 
D

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
16,215
0
71
Originally posted by: Siddy
ROFL, always get AMD, there is no comparison, they run cooler and faster, with a lower voltage, and easier/better to OC.
Click to expand...

That is a moronic response...ROFL is not needed...Just post your comment maybe a bit more explanation....

They run cooler yes...faster not necessarily...literally not and perceptually or even in real world that depends on the test....

I think Intels 90nm part also runs 1.4v or somewhere close so I dont think that is true. P4s consume more power..maybe that is what you meant...

Easier and better to Oc that is pretty much an indivdual type thing...My p4c 2.4 oc'd to 3.5ghz for a near 50% oc.....My 3000+ does 2.64ghz for a near 50% oc...what is your point???

The only ROFL is me at you!!!
 
M

Mucker

Platinum Member
Apr 28, 2001
2,833
0
0
Originally posted by: Zebo
A64 3400. Faster than Intel 3.6 and A64 3500 and only costs $200

Check out these real reviews... using real world tests...
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2275
http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/525/

A64 is also very quiet, cool, and has 64 bit option too. No brainer IMO.

Motherboard, best ever made happens to fit this processor.. DFI LanParty UT 350 GB $100
Jap caps, high quality mosfets, three phase power..basically a rock.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198
Click to expand...

Looks like great bang for buck to me :thumbsup:

m :)
 
C

clarkey01

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2004
3,419
1
0
Originally posted by: Mucker
Originally posted by: Zebo
A64 3400. Faster than Intel 3.6 and A64 3500 and only costs $200

Check out these real reviews... using real world tests...
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=2275
http://www.behardware.com/art/imprimer/525/

A64 is also very quiet, cool, and has 64 bit option too. No brainer IMO.

Motherboard, best ever made happens to fit this processor.. DFI LanParty UT 350 GB $100
Jap caps, high quality mosfets, three phase power..basically a rock.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2198
Click to expand...

Looks like great bang for buck to me :thumbsup:

m :)
Click to expand...


Im willing to bet that "3400+" Zebo pointed out is a newcastle, therefore its at 2.4 Ghz and will beat a 3.8Ghz P4 in gaming and quite a few apps.
 
K

kini62

Senior member
Jan 31, 2005
254
0
0
I have (had, it's going back) the below 3500+. While fast at gaming, it didn't cut it at "everyday" tasks. DVDShrink, Premiere, video rendering, multi-tasking. The things I bought a new PC to do. It wasn't even half as fast as a P43.4 at the above tasks, plus was poor in multi-tasking when doing CPU intensive stuff such as encoding. I need a computer to do things TODAY, not a year down the road when AMD will/might have dualcore chips.

With the current design/extension set that the Athlon 64 has now, it will need dual-cores to be able to do encoding and rendering as fast as the P4 does NOW (in the apps that I use).

I ended up very disappointed in the overall performance of the 3500+, and am going back to the P4.
 
G

Grimmy311

Member
Feb 2, 2005
26
0
0
"I won't touch any Socket 775 P4 if I were you. Reasons:

1. Risk of thermal throttling. Your chip may not work at the clock speed Intel advertises on the box.
2. Absurd heat output
3. A64's are superior in every way maybe except in one or two video encoding or 3D rendering apps, even then the P4E wins by a very small margin.

And btw all LGA775 boards are PCI-E only (Out of luck with a high-end card such as 6800GT), and none of them has SLI support (if it ever matters)."



The Asus P5P800 isn't PCI-E, 8X AGP we use them at work for people who don't have the money to go for the PCI-E. But in any case go for the AMD, you have a future with that proc.
 
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imported_Bond

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2005
5
0
0
I would like to thank everone for their responses.
It is very interesting to get such a broad range of experiences.
From what I gather this is it in a nutshell:

Intel P4:
Advantages:
Better at multitasking and multithreaded apps. (Assuming the software uses the HT extension.) Better at video encoding, and rendering apps.
Disadvantages: Might not be overclockable due to heat issues, heat issues a serious concern. Cost is higher. Recent Intel roadmap does nothing for upgradability.

AMD 64:
Advantages:
Better at Gaming, lower cost, lower heat generation. Assuming that dual core will fit on socket 939 upgradibility path is MUCH better.

Disadvantages: Not as good at multithreading, multitasking apps. Not as good with Video encoding and rendering apps.

Well I have made my decision....sort of: Either go with the AMD64 3500 plus and the new DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D board.
or get the ASUS P4P500 with is a cost effective solution as it uses the 865 chipset which is as stable as a rock. (keep my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro) and slap on a Pentium 3.4E and hope for the love of god that I can cool the ah heck down enough to overclock.
This way I am not forking out money for a 915 chipset that is soon to be replaced.
Any comments on this?

Thanks again for all your help.

Bond.
 
C

caz67

Golden Member
Jan 4, 2004
1,369
0
0
Originally posted by: Bond
I would like to thank everone for their responses.
It is very interesting to get such a broad range of experiences.
From what I gather this is it in a nutshell:

Intel P4:
Advantages:
Better at multitasking and multithreaded apps. (Assuming the software uses the HT extension.) Better at video encoding, and rendering apps.
Disadvantages: Might not be overclockable due to heat issues, heat issues a serious concern. Cost is higher. Recent Intel roadmap does nothing for upgradability.

AMD 64:
Advantages:
Better at Gaming, lower cost, lower heat generation. Assuming that dual core will fit on socket 939 upgradibility path is MUCH better.

Disadvantages: Not as good at multithreading, multitasking apps. Not as good with Video encoding and rendering apps.

Well I have made my decision....sort of: Either go with the AMD64 3500 plus and the new DFI LANParty UT nF4 Ultra-D board.
or get the ASUS P4P500 with is a cost effective solution as it uses the 865 chipset which is as stable as a rock. (keep my ATI Radeon 9800 Pro) and slap on a Pentium 3.4E and hope for the love of god that I can cool the ah heck down enough to overclock.
This way I am not forking out money for a 915 chipset that is soon to be replaced.
Any comments on this?

Thanks again for all your help.

Bond.
Click to expand...


Good choice 3500+, best value for money and performance ..
 
H

HeaterCore

Senior member
Dec 22, 2004
442
0
0
I usually recommend AMD, but for the applications you run the P4 might be a bit better. The A64 is much better in gaming, true, but that's not your primary concern; and anyway, a 3.4-3.6GHz P4 will run any game like butter, just not *quite* as fast as an AMD.

The real decision comes down to whether you place more value on performance or upgradeability. The P4 will perform slightly better, but the NF4 platform should last you a lot longer. Incidentally, are you planning on buying a new video card? If so, and you're rejecting Intel's 915/925, I'd definitely go with AMD for the PCI-E support.

-HC-
 
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ribbon13

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2005
9,343
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0
I chose Dual Opteron for my graphics/rendering/encoding workstation. Expensive to start, but its lifecycle will dwarf the P4.
 
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stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
8
81
With the programs you wanna use, and the multitasking I would go with the P4, but it may be difficult to keep it cool. I had to go to water cooling, as my 3.4 prescott was running at up to 73c, and themal throttling was kicking in, but I do a ton of multitasking, so I stuck with the P4.
 
Zebo

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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I

imported_Bond

Junior Member
Feb 3, 2005
5
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Thanks stevty2889,

It looks like your overclocking the bej^%$ out of your chip too.
I think I will get a 3.4 and try for 3.7 or 3.8 using air cooled.
I just got a Lian LI 2000 case in black.
Looks great and hopefully will help cool the processor, or at least not add to the problems.
Thanks everyone with your input.
I have pretty much decided to go with the Asus P5P800 as I can keep everything I already have. Raid card, SCSI card, and Hecules Game Theater XP card, and my Radeon 9800 Pro.
Plus I really like the 865 chipset. It's solid as a rock.
This way I can wait a year and see how all this thrashes out.
Appreciate the comments. I really, really hope I don't have to go to water cooled.

Bond.
 
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