I officially will never vote electronically again...

[Zenmervolt]

I really miss the gear and lever machines. They were simple to use, reliable, and difficult to "hack".

ZV

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

If you think electronic systems are the only problem...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHL_YMBolRs

Holy CRAP... just WOW.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

shens, no shens, whatever, electronic voting is way to suspect. Too open to manipulation prior to count. It should be eliminated.

 

[AstroManLuca]

They need to fucking jail the people who made that shit. Honestly, how fucking hard is it? When was the last time an ATM made a mistake? Not when you mis-entered some information, but when the ATM itself actually made a mistake and gave you more or less than the amount you specified? That's right, never (well, maybe one or two people here have had a bad experience, but remember that people perform millions of ATM transactions every DAY and the vast majority have no problems).

It's NOT that hard. Modify some ATMs, have them print a receipt (hey look that's another thing ATMs are capable of doing other than accepting several inputs accurately and quickly!), and be done with it. I'm sick of this shit.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
I really miss the gear and lever machines. They were simple to use, reliable, and difficult to "hack".

ZV

But then you had the problem with hanging chads.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

Yupp,
anyone with a least bit of background in IT will tell you the same. Nothing like a closed-source machine with no paper trail ... FAIL.

Why is this so fucking difficult to do? Honestly? Lotteries use electronic "voting" machines with no problems and everyone gets a printout with a checksum as a fail-safe.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
They need to fucking jail the people who made that shit. Honestly, how fucking hard is it? When was the last time an ATM made a mistake? Not when you mis-entered some information, but when the ATM itself actually made a mistake and gave you more or less than the amount you specified? That's right, never (well, maybe one or two people here have had a bad experience, but remember that people perform millions of ATM transactions every DAY and the vast majority have no problems).

It's NOT that hard. Modify some ATMs, have them print a receipt (hey look that's another thing ATMs are capable of doing other than accepting several inputs accurately and quickly!), and be done with it. I'm sick of this shit.

No shit. When is the last time an ATM gave you extra or less money than you asked for or botched the receipt? Seems like in the year 2008 we should be able to make voting easy with accurate results.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
They need to fucking jail the people who made that shit. Honestly, how fucking hard is it? When was the last time an ATM made a mistake? Not when you mis-entered some information, but when the ATM itself actually made a mistake and gave you more or less than the amount you specified? That's right, never (well, maybe one or two people here have had a bad experience, but remember that people perform millions of ATM transactions every DAY and the vast majority have no problems).

It's NOT that hard. Modify some ATMs, have them print a receipt (hey look that's another thing ATMs are capable of doing other than accepting several inputs accurately and quickly!), and be done with it. I'm sick of this shit.

EXACTLY MY POINT

There are THOUSANDS of implementation of the same god damn machine out there, producing verifiable paper trail and no issues. How come voting machines are so damn difficult to make?

All you need is a DB table that keys in by your soc, stores your selection, date, time, location and salt. Then it prints the selection AND prints a crypt of (all the selection data, date and time location and the random salt).

Let all the data be accessible over a website, so you can type in the hash from the print out and it will pull up your selection. There's only 300M people in this country, every other mysql install stores more data than that.

 

[Drakkon]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
They need to fucking jail the people who made that shit. Honestly, how fucking hard is it? When was the last time an ATM made a mistake? Not when you mis-entered some information, but when the ATM itself actually made a mistake and gave you more or less than the amount you specified? That's right, never (well, maybe one or two people here have had a bad experience, but remember that people perform millions of ATM transactions every DAY and the vast majority have no problems).

It's NOT that hard. Modify some ATMs, have them print a receipt (hey look that's another thing ATMs are capable of doing other than accepting several inputs accurately and quickly!), and be done with it. I'm sick of this shit.

The funny thing is Diebold makes ATM machines as well as many of the voting machines - however rather than use their proven technology from their ATMs that adapts to all users and many languages they decided to try and produce something new. Govt spending at its best :thumbsup:

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

Yupp,
anyone with a least bit of background in IT will tell you the same. Nothing like a closed-source machine with no paper trail ... FAIL.

Why is this so fucking difficult to do? Honestly? Lotteries use electronic "voting" machines with no problems and everyone gets a printout with a checksum as a fail-safe.

Why continue to believe that the problem is incompetence when it so obviously isn't?

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

Yupp,
anyone with a least bit of background in IT will tell you the same. Nothing like a closed-source machine with no paper trail ... FAIL.

Why is this so fucking difficult to do? Honestly? Lotteries use electronic "voting" machines with no problems and everyone gets a printout with a checksum as a fail-safe.

Why continue to believe that the problem is incompetence when it so obviously isn't?

Well I tend to dismiss conspiracy theories per Occham's razor...

 

[Baked]

It's God's will.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

Yupp,
anyone with a least bit of background in IT will tell you the same. Nothing like a closed-source machine with no paper trail ... FAIL.

Why is this so fucking difficult to do? Honestly? Lotteries use electronic "voting" machines with no problems and everyone gets a printout with a checksum as a fail-safe.

Why continue to believe that the problem is incompetence when it so obviously isn't?

Well I tend to dismiss conspiracy theories per Occham's razor...

Exactly. People refuse to think our government could do something so horrible.

People hate the truth, even when it is obvious.

 

[CallMeJoe]

I cast my vote this morning in South Carolina, on an ES&S iVotronics machine (the same one used in West Virginia). The machine I used was apparently properly calibrated, since my choices displayed correctly. Given the history of this model of voting machine and its lack of paper trail, I will have to take it on faith that my vote was correctly counted.

 

[thirtythree]

Electronic voting worked fine for me and made things a lot easier I would think (I've never used a paper ballot). After you vote, it verifies your choices and prints out a receipt (that you can see under glass) that they can use for backup verification. I assumed all electronic machines had this "paper trail"...

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
...I will have to take it on faith that my vote was correctly counted.

Having faith in government is much worse than having faith in God. If you're wrong about God, its not as big of a deal as being wrong about government.

 

[eits]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
TWO times... TWO TIMES! I voted today and decided to try out the electronic system this year. My intention was to vote for McCain... but after pressing for his name, the result indicated an Obama vote. Sure... okay, fluke, but I caught it. I asked the poll worker to assist me and I started over. Sure enough, it did it AGAIN. The guy heading the polling location walked over, took a few minutes alone with the machine and I tried again... finally it worked. As I was on my way out, I noticed someone wearing an "Obama '08" t-shirt in line for the machine, but when I walked through the doors, the volunteer standing there stopped a woman, telling her she had to take off her McCain/Palin sticker because it was considered electioneering (which IS against the election rules here...). Double standard? I think so. Fishy electronic ballot? Definitely so.

i vote paper everytime. i don't trust electronic after 2004.

also, wearing an obama shirt is not electioneering. wearing an obama sticker is.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
...I will have to take it on faith that my vote was correctly counted.

Having faith in government is much worse than having faith in God. If you're wrong about God, its not as big of a deal as being wrong about government.

I probably should have written "I can only hope my vote was correctly counted"

 

[Mxylplyx]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I've said it before. All involved in setting up those electronic votes should be send to internment camps for the most epic fail in their duties EVAR. They SUCK ASS.

You mean all the dems who started a mad rush to replace paper ballots, because some of their constituents were too fucking retarded to use them, and they wanted something to blame their 2000 loss on other than their own candidate? They threw out an imperfect system for one that is much worse.

Lets face it, millions of people in this country are so stupid they would fuck up a ballot even if it involved circling a picture of their candiate with a crayon. You just have to accept that fact.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: eits
also, wearing an obama shirt is not electioneering. wearing an obama sticker is.

?????

Here both candidate shirts and stickers are prohibited at the polls...

 

[Proprioceptive]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: eits
also, wearing an obama shirt is not electioneering. wearing an obama sticker is.

?????

Here both candidate shirts and stickers are prohibited at the polls...

Yep... here in Missouri, anything with ANYTHING political is prohibited.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive
TWO times... TWO TIMES! I voted today and decided to try out the electronic system this year. My intention was to vote for McCain... but after pressing for his name, the result indicated an Obama vote. Sure... okay, fluke, but I caught it. I asked the poll worker to assist me and I started over. Sure enough, it did it AGAIN. The guy heading the polling location walked over, took a few minutes alone with the machine and I tried again... finally it worked. As I was on my way out, I noticed someone wearing an "Obama '08" t-shirt in line for the machine, but when I walked through the doors, the volunteer standing there stopped a woman, telling her she had to take off her McCain/Palin sticker because it was considered electioneering (which IS against the election rules here...). Double standard? I think so. Fishy electronic ballot? Definitely so.

There's nothing more credible than someone who claims something on an internet forum with no evidence.
/sarcasm
/shens
/thread

god forbid anything that you don't like be true :roll:

This is SOP for techs. Nothing new here.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: Proprioceptive

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe

Originally posted by: eits
also, wearing an obama shirt is not electioneering. wearing an obama sticker is.

?????

Here both candidate shirts and stickers are prohibited at the polls...

Yep... here in Missouri, anything with ANYTHING political is prohibited.

Here in Minnesota, there was a notice posted that you're not even allowed to TALK about political campaigns!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: halik

EXACTLY MY POINT

There are THOUSANDS of implementation of the same god damn machine out there, producing verifiable paper trail and no issues. How come voting machines are so damn difficult to make?

All you need is a DB table that keys in by your soc, stores your selection, date, time, location and salt. Then it prints the selection AND prints a crypt of (all the selection data, date and time location and the random salt).

Let all the data be accessible over a website, so you can type in the hash from the print out and it will pull up your selection. There's only 300M people in this country, every other mysql install stores more data than that.

would doing that prevent the time honored tradition of stuffing ballot boxes? *cough*LBJ*cough*

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: halik

EXACTLY MY POINT

There are THOUSANDS of implementation of the same god damn machine out there, producing verifiable paper trail and no issues. How come voting machines are so damn difficult to make?

All you need is a DB table that keys in by your soc, stores your selection, date, time, location and salt. Then it prints the selection AND prints a crypt of (all the selection data, date and time location and the random salt).

Let all the data be accessible over a website, so you can type in the hash from the print out and it will pull up your selection. There's only 300M people in this country, every other mysql install stores more data than that.

would doing that prevent the time honored tradition of stuffing ballot boxes? *cough*LBJ*cough*

How so exactly? if you change any row of the db, your checksum would come out different. If you add rows to the db, you'd have a discrepancy between the physical sign-in and what's in the db, not to mention that your printout count would be off (you print 5 paper trail tix, have 8 records in the db)