I officially hate W7

[Emulex]

win7 rocks. sounds like poor overclocking skills or cheap gear to me.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

If the system was stable for 6 weeks how is this a W7 issue?? Apparently it worked fine for 6 weeks... so either your hardware has died in 6 weeks or something you installed or did to your computer in this time has caused the instability... maybe you should still check your RAM and as for software issues, start blaming Adobe... ??

The Adobe software never got installed. The Adobe Installer couldn't install Reader because it claimed the cab file (data1.cab) was corrupt.

I agree that hardware could have failed. Maybe one of the four 2GB DIMMs is failing, or one of the two identical disks in the mirror RAID has failed, or even the motherboard (1st time experience with Gigabyte). Unfortunately, nothing in the event manager is catching any hardware issues, but instead core W7 services.

I guess I am not sure about data corruption in volatile manifesting in meaning OS files on the disk. I cannot test the DDR3 RAM in another PC in my home as this is the first DDR3 architecture in my home. Maybe Frys or Microcenter has a SDRAM tester--W7 is way too unstable to try to test it as installed.

 

[Maximilian]

Run memtest86+ 4.10, install it on a USB stick or download the ultimate boot cd 5.02 and it will come as part of that. Ive always got a USB stick with ultimate boot cd on it standing by in case of a problem.

 

[lxskllr]

Test the ram using memtest86+. It's a software test. Burn it to a CD(and boot to it) or bootable USB, and let it run overnight. If you get even 1 error before overnight's over you can stop the test, as you have problems. Try loosening timings, or bumping the Vdimm to see if you can get rid of the errors.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

I'd start by testing the memory. It's easy to do, and a likely culprit imo.

How would you test it?

Was the system used in those first few weeks or did it just sit there? What kind of errors are showing up in event viewer?

Yes, the wife used it for Internet related things (checking bank accounts, surfing usual places), looking at JPEG pictures from her DSLR, and trying to get the look and feel of W7. Heck, even the Blu-ray drive and software worked fine.

Her surfing was always limited to things like MSNBC, Google, National Weather and nothing what I would call unusual or questionable (she's too paranoid). Yesterday and the day before were my effort attempts to migrate her stuff to it (a la email, bookmarks and cookies, etc.).

Software problems result in error messages that are repeatable. They don't result in lockups.

I mentioned that that it began as Event notifications that explorer.exe crashing first (3 times) and then progressed to hard lockups.

Somehow I knew OCZ would be somewhere in this post. It's most likely hardware (lockups can very rarely be attributed to a software problem). I've installed all the things you speak of with no issues what so ever many times on Windows7 btw.

It would seem that OCZ's reputation have gone bad as my previous experience has been good. I am typing this on a two year old maching using OCZ RAM and this machine has never crashed. I'll try tossing this memory and buying another brand. Recommendations?

First thing I would do is go to admin tools then event viewer and read the logs.

I did this and it is only showing events relating to W7 services/processes failing. Nothing explicitly relating to hardware.

The problems showed up the day after I installed Windows Live Mail, its imports, and IE8 and its imports, and after the printer driver install. It was when Adobe Installer downloaded Reader and attempted to read the data1.cab file that it found it corrupt and all h3ll broke loose.

There are many points in your post where the red flag of "time to test hardware" should have come up, but I'll just point out the biggest of them all: when a bootable cd (which happened to be a windows install CD) locked during bootup. Hardware failures (or the ugly gremlins from flaky hardware even worse) can show up anytime anywhere for any reason even no perceptible reason, if you had truly worked on computers as long as you said you would know that and it would be second nature when you get lockups to test, at the very least with a memtest86+ as you sleep, and if it were me, I would also run 24 hours of "blend FFTs" prime95 as well to test the system under load, afterward running a full CHKDSK on boot.


My intuition says it may be a PSU or power supply (as in the incoming supply from the power company) issue, but that's just what my feeling is, that's not always correct so I test test test. What brand and model is the PSU and does the system sit on a UPS or line conditioner?

oh. and just so you know: it's spelled rationale

The Windows boot CD wasn't during the PC boot, but rather I was already logged into Windows 7, put the W7 disk in the optical drive and as soon as it started reading ... lockup.

If this is hardware then so be it and I'll start replacing components. BTW, this is the first motherboard that required the 24-pin supply AND two 2x2-pin supplies. I thought this odd as the Gigabyte manual said it was only needed for Extreme Edition CPUs, which the Core i3 is not. Without the two 2x2-pin connectors the motherboard won't even POST.

I too had some random lockups with my previous OCZ ram, even when it passed memtest and all. It is running fine on another AMD machine though.

In my recent experience with a few DDR3 sticks I have learned not all of them run at the advertised speed even at their advised 1.65v. Ever tried bumping up the vddq a bit? (that is, while remaining within the safe limits of vtt and maintaining <0.5v difference between vddq)

Yes, after getting Windows Live Mail setup for the wife two nights ago, I went into the BIOS and set the RAM to 8-8-8@1.64V per the stick specification as the motherboard had them at 7-7-7@1.5V. As a test to get the system stable, I reset the BIOS so they ran again at the 7-7-7@1.5V Gigabyte wants them to run at.

First there are millions of Win7 users with stable systems(I have two) so blaming 7 is ridiculous,you said this started after you installed Adobe reader well start there and remove it(make sure all files are gone),personally I use Foxit reader like the others here suggested,if you still get problems then its very possible you could have a hardware problem,remember hardware issues can pop up anytime,1 day ,one week ,one year etc...

Btw I had two hardware failures in the last 8 weeks , twitchy Razer Mouse and OCZ PSU.
Basically you have to start ruling out fautly hardware and make sure nothing is overclocked,reinstall of Win7 may help if its a software issue.

You are saying that because others have had good experience with Windows 7 I cannot hate it, nor can I blame it? This isn't Obamanomics. :awe:

And i said the problem started when Adobe Installer tried to read the data1.cab file in order to try to install Adobe Reader. This never got installed because the installer claimed the data1.cab was corrupt. Still, should an app attempting to be installed under non-admin cause a system-wide failure of the OS?

I am not ruling out faulty hardware. I asked for logic to help assist me in understanding how this was stable for six weeks and only when I tried to install an app, which never got installed, could lead to a dramatic decomposition in the system stability.

If it is hardware, so be it, but Windows 7 is oblivious to it. Nothing in the event messages relating to hardware failure.

 

[KeypoX]

windows 7 rocks. I can't believe im starting to use more and more microsoft programs. Vs 3rd party tools.

 

[KeypoX]

win7 rocks. sounds like poor overclocking skills or cheap gear to me.

wow i swear i didnt read this post before mine.

 

[konakona]

some mobos come with memtest built-in to the bios, so check that first.

but like I said, sometimes you see no errors in memtest while the system is flaky. Higher voltage on the vdimm fixed that in my case.

 

[Leros]

Its unfair to blame Windows here. Its probably a hardware issue or maybe even a driver issue.

 

[Mem]

You are saying that because others have had good experience with Windows 7 I cannot hate it, nor can I blame it? This isn't Obamanomics. :awe:

And i said the problem started when Adobe Installer tried to read the data1.cab file in order to try to install Adobe Reader. This never got installed because the installer claimed the data1.cab was corrupt. Still, should an app attempting to be installed under non-admin cause a system-wide failure of the OS?

I am not ruling out faulty hardware. I asked for logic to help assist me in understanding how this was stable for six weeks and only when I tried to install an app, which never got installed, could lead to a dramatic decomposition in the system stability.

If it is hardware, so be it, but Windows 7 is oblivious to it. Nothing in the event messages relating to hardwa

Actually what I and many others are saying is you need to troubleshoot,over the years I have had issues with XP,Vista,7 and in every case it was not the OS to blame,its easy to point the finger and blame OS,hard part is finding the cause but with patience and proper troubleshooting you will get to the root of the issue.

Remember Win7 is an excellent OS nothing more, it won't make your tea or tell you this weeks lottery numbers,btw did you have a look in Reliability monitor ?..type " View reliablility" in run box,you get a chart with info of crashes etc..

 

[konakona]

oh.. didn't notice that part. let's try to keep this thread political discussion free so we can help it stop phailin...

 

[jaqie]

Excellent post, Mem. Eloquently put and very good advice.

 

[theevilsharpie]

I asked for logic to help assist me in understanding how this was stable for six weeks and only when I tried to install an app, which never got installed, could lead to a dramatic decomposition in the system stability.

You're assuming that the act of installing the program had anything to do with your system failure. It's coincidental. If you weren't installing a program, it would've crashed while you were watching a youtube video or downloading porn.

If it is hardware, so be it, but Windows 7 is oblivious to it. Nothing in the event messages relating to hardware failure.

The code that logs error events is stored in memory and runs on your processor. If either of those are unreliable, then Windows error logging is unreliable.

 

[Steltek]

deleted - wrong motherboard

 

[lopri]

As others have mentioned, test your memory. Also, if you're using i5-530's IGP, make sure the drivers are up to date.

Edit: I didn't know there was a second page.

 

[homercles337]

Been building since 1993 and you dont know how to properly diagnose hardware? WTF? When you build do just put *everything* together, install the OS, and call it a day? Shit, i POST the mobo with cpu and memory, then add hardware pieces, before i even think about mounting in the case. NO WAY have you been building that long...no way.

 

[amddude]

memtest

 

[sonoma1993]

How would you test it?

how would I test memory? run mem test or take out all of the memory sticks. Then run 1 memory module in the system and see if the same issues come up. if no issues pop up, move onto the next memory module and try again until the bad memory module is found

 

[BarkingGhostar]

Yesterday I had a chance to do some online research and two things I learned:

First, Windows 7 (and Vista) come with a Memory Diagnostic Tool for testing RAM. Its a basic utility, but one that proved to be vital.

Second, OCZ recommends, and actual expects, that its memory products be run at the settings they are labeled for.

I used the W7 tool and tested as is and got errors.

I removed the two modules from the second package and tested the first package's pair of modules without errors (using DDR3_1/3 slots). Swapped the modules with the second package's modules and got errors. Modules from this second retail package (OCZ3G1600LV2G) will be replaced under warranty.

I am curious that this product is marketed as low voltage, but what exactly is 'low'? Gigabyte motherboard wanted to run this memory at 1.5v and considered 1.64-1.66v to be borderline overclocking.

What I find bewildering is that bad memory could compromise the system so easily, not find a single event in the event manager relating to a hardware issue, but a tool provided with the OS can be used successfully to determine a hardware problem with memory.

Had I not found this web page and learned of the tool, I would have been as blind (and ignorant) and the W7 operating environment seemed to be. With failed memory removed, I was able to install Adobe Reader without incident.

BTW, this bad memory is the first bad component since c.1998 when I had a bad Asus motherboard. Being this was my first experience with Gigabyte, I had no idea of what to expect in terms of quality.

I'm still not sure if I am running the BIOS settings as optimally as I could be, but the system seems stable again. I'll let the wife at it and I do plan on installing M$ Office this afternoon. Hopefully the system will remain stable so I can install the newly purchased Adobe Photoshop.

Thanks to all that offered suggestions on how to proceed on this matter.

 

[shortylickens]

Been building since 1993 and you dont know how to properly diagnose hardware? WTF? When you build do just put *everything* together, install the OS, and call it a day? Shit, i POST the mobo with cpu and memory, then add hardware pieces, before i even think about mounting in the case. NO WAY have you been building that long...no way.

I've been building longer than that and truth be told, with modern hardware and OS's its entirely possible you could do it that way. Not the best method but it works more often than not. Just cuz you've been doing it a certain way for many years doesnt automatically mean its the best way or the way everyone else does it. If thats what works for you, great. But you need to understand thats not the best way for everyone else, regardless of your personal success with it.

 

[sonoma1993]

What I find bewildering is that bad memory could compromise the system so easily, not find a single event in the event manager relating to a hardware issue, but a tool provided with the OS can be used successfully to determine a hardware problem with memory.

memory issues can cause some of the most strangest computer issurd. Examples, error when reading files from a cd-rom or hard drive

 

[tommo123]

yep, lesson i learnt ages ago. never skimp on memory, or the psu.

 

[Nothinman]

What I find bewildering is that bad memory could compromise the system so easily, not find a single event in the event manager relating to a hardware issue,

Why? The OS doesn't magically know what every bit in memory is supposed to be, it just passes the data back and forth and lets the apps deal with it and most apps don't deal with being handed unexpected data well. Hell, most of them don't even check if they were actually allocated memory when they ask for it.

The same thing goes for the kernel. If a module registers some kind of handler and that pointer gets corrupted the OS will, for the most part, blindly execute the code to which that pointer points. If the pointer gets corrupted and points to another function weird things will happen, if it points to non-executable data you'll probably get a BSOD.

but a tool provided with the OS can be used successfully to determine a hardware problem with memory.

Because it just runs around writing a distinct pattern to all memory and then comparing it. Since it knows what is supposed to be there it can determine if it was stored and retrieved properly. But there is a small chance that the memory testing program itself will get corrupted and crash if memory corruption happens in it's own memory.

 

[Modelworks]

Try to remember that companies like MS that release an OS to the public as final are not going to release something that they know has problems . Instead they test it thoroughly on THEIR hardware using what they hope is representative of the general public. In the pc world there is no way to test for every possible memory, motherboard and driver .

That is where companies like Apple have it easy. They know exactly what hardware is in a specific computer and when they release the OS they know how it will perform. With Apple you can look at exactly what the developer used and if you have an exact copy of that machine then you are guaranteed the same experience. MS doesn't make the list of hardware they use easy to get. If you could then you could duplicate the exact same hardware in a pc .


When I test software for Autodesk they provide me with a workstation already configured exactly like the ones the programmers use. That allows me to find bugs and flaws without it being a hardware or driver issue.

 

[theevilsharpie]

Second, OCZ recommends, and actual expects, that its memory products be run at the settings they are labeled for.

You don't say :hmm: