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I never in a million years thought we'd invade Iran

Jun 27, 2005
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It's no secret that Iran has had people in Iraq stirring up trouble from the get-go. So why is it, three (almost four) years later, we're now starting to see one story after another show up in the press about Iranians in Iraq?

Link

BAGHDAD, Dec. 24 ? The American military is holding at least four Iranians in Iraq, including men the Bush administration called senior military officials, who were seized in a pair of raids late last week aimed at people suspected of conducting attacks on Iraqi security forces, according to senior Iraqi and American officials in Baghdad and Washington.

The Bush administration made no public announcement of the politically delicate seizure of the Iranians, though in response to specific questions the White House confirmed Sunday that the Iranians were in custody.

Gordon D. Johndroe, the spokesman for the National Security Council, said two Iranian diplomats were among those initially detained in the raids. The two had papers showing that they were accredited to work in Iraq, and he said they were turned over to the Iraqi authorities and released. He confirmed that a group of other Iranians, including the military officials, remained in custody while an investigation continued, and he said, ?We continue to work with the government of Iraq on the status of the detainees.?

It was unclear what kind of evidence American officials possessed that the Iranians were planning attacks, and the officials would not identify those being held. One official said that ?a lot of material? was seized in the raid, but would not say if it included arms or documents that pointed to planning for attacks. Much of the material was still being examined, the official said.

Nonetheless, the two raids, in central Baghdad, have deeply upset Iraqi government officials, who have been making strenuous efforts to engage Iran on matters of security. At least two of the Iranians were in this country on an invitation extended by Iraq?s president, Jalal Talabani, during a visit to Tehran earlier this month. It was particularly awkward for the Iraqis that one of the raids took place in the Baghdad compound of Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, one of Iraq?s most powerful Shiite leaders, who traveled to Washington three weeks ago to meet President Bush.

Over the past four days, the Iraqis and Iranians have engaged in intense behind-the-scenes efforts to secure the release of the remaining detainees. One Iraqi government official said, ?The Iranian ambassador has been running around from office to office.?

Iraqi leaders appealed to the American military, including to Gen. George W. Casey Jr., the senior American ground commander in Iraq, to release the Iranians, according to an Iraqi politician familiar with the efforts. The debate about what to do next has also engaged officials in the White House and the State Department. The national security adviser, Stephen J. Hadley, has been fully briefed, officials said, though they would not say what Mr. Bush has been told about the seizure or the identity of the detainees.

A senior Western official in Baghdad said the raids were conducted after American officials received information that the people detained had been involved in attacks on official security forces in Iraq. ?We conduct operations against those who threaten Iraqi and coalition forces,? the official said. ?This was based on information.?

A spokesman for Mr. Hakim, who heads a Shiite political party called Sciri, which began as an exile group in Iran that opposed Saddam Hussein, declined to comment. In Tehran, the Iranian Foreign Ministry spokesman, Mohammad Ali Hosseini, had no comment about the case on Sunday other than to say it was under examination.

The action comes at a moment of extraordinary tension in the three-way relationship between the United States, Iran and Iraq. On Saturday, even as American officials were trying to determine the identity of some of the Iranians, the United Nations Security Council passed a resolution imposing mild sanctions against Iran for its refusal to suspend uranium enrichment. Meanwhile, the Bush administration has rejected pressure to open talks with Iran about its actions in Iraq.

Much about the raids and the identities of the Iranians remained unclear on Sunday. American officials offered few details. They said that an investigation was under way and that they wanted to give the Iraqi government time to figure out its position. A Bush administration official said the Iranian military officials held in custody were suspected of being members of the Quds force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps. It has been involved in training members of Hezbollah and other groups that the Americans regard as terrorist organizations.

American and Iraqi officials have long accused Iran of interfering in this country?s internal affairs, but have rarely produced evidence. The administration presented last week?s arrests as a potential confirmation of the link. Mr. Johndroe said, ?We suspect this event validates our claims about Iranian meddling, but we want to finish our investigation of the detained Iranians before characterizing their activities.?

He added: ?We will be better able to explain what this means about the larger picture after we finish our investigation.?

In the raids, the Americans also detained a number of Iraqis. Western and Iraqi officials said that following normal protocol, the two Iranian diplomats were turned over to the Iraqi government after being questioned. The Iraqis, in turn, released them to the Iranian Embassy. An Iraqi official said his government had strained to keep the affair out of the public eye to avoid scuttling the talks with Iran that were now under way.

The raids and arrests were confirmed by at least seven officials and politicians in Baghdad and Washington. Still, the development was being viewed skeptically on Sunday by some Iraqis, who said that they suspected that the timing was intended to reinforce arguments by some in the administration that direct talks with Iran would be futile.

An administration official in Washington disputed that, saying, ?When the military conducted the raids, they really didn?t know who they were going to find.?

The United States is now holding, apparently for the first time, Iranians who it suspects of planning attacks. One senior administration official said, ?This is going to be a tense but clarifying moment.?

?It?s our position that the Iraqis have to seize this opportunity to sort out with the Iranians just what kind of behavior they are going to tolerate,? the official said, declining to speak on the record because the details of the raid and investigation were not yet public. ?They are going to have to confront the evidence that the Iranians are deeply involved in some of the acts of violence.?

The events that led to the arrests of the Iranians began on Thursday, although details are sketchy.

In one raid, which took place around 7 p.m. that day, American forces stopped an official Iranian Embassy car carrying the two Iranian diplomats, one or two Iranian guards and an Iraqi driver. Iraqi officials said that the diplomats had been praying at the Buratha mosque and that when it was stopped, the car was in the Allawi neighborhood, a few minutes from the Iranian Embassy to the west of the Tigris River.

All in the car were detained by the Americans. The mosque?s imam, Sheik Jalal al-deen al-Sageir, a member of Parliament from Mr. Hakim?s party, said the Iranians had come to pray during the last day of mourning for his mother, who recently died. He said that after the Iranians left, the Iranian Embassy phoned to say that they had not arrived as expected. ?We were afraid they were kidnapped,? Sheik Sageir said.

But he said he was later informed that the diplomats, whom he said that he did not know well, were in the custody of Americans. ?I had nothing to do with that,? Sheik Sageir said. ?I don?t know why the Americans took them.?

The predawn raid on Mr. Hakim?s compound, on the east side of the Tigris, was perhaps the most startling part of the American operation. The arrests were made inside the house of Hadi al-Ameri, the chairman of the Iraqi Parliament?s security committee and leader of the Badr Organization, the armed wing of Mr. Hakim?s political party.

Many Shiite political groups are now suspected of having ties to Iran, and Sciri is no exception. Senior party leaders lived in exile in Iran for years plotting the overthrow of Mr. Hussein. Some married Iranians and raised their children there.

Mr. Hakim has emerged as the central Iraqi Shiite who is backing a new bloc made up of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds that would isolate more radical politicians. Americans back the new bloc, and Mr. Hakim traveled to Washington earlier this month to discuss its formation with Mr. Bush. It was not clear how the arrests, embarrassing to Mr. Hakim, would affect those political efforts.

Hiwa Osman, a news media adviser to Mr. Talabani, said, ?The president is unhappy with the arrests.? .

The politician familiar with the efforts said the Iranians in the compound had been in Iraq for four days. He said Iraqi officials expected that two more of the Iranians would be released soon.

The disagreement will further irritate relations between Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki of Iraq and his American supporters. The Shiite-led government has begun to chafe under the control of the Americans, pressing for more control of its army and for greater independence from what it says is unilateral American decision making.

The Americans are concerned that the Shiite-led government would not respect the rights of the minority Sunni Arab population, and, in the worst case, would use the largely Shiite security forces as a weapon in this country?s deepening sectarian war.

Since the borders opened after the invasion, it has not been uncommon for Iranian pilgrims to visit Iraq. Many come to worship in religious places holy to Shiites.
I was never a fan of this war. By the look of things we've messed up more crap than we are capable of fixing. Maybe it's time for us to leave.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
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we handed iraq to iran on a silver platter, now we have 2 salvagable options that i can see here:
invade iran
partition iraq to at least save the kurd and sunni areas from persian domination.

I lean toward option 2, since its what should have been done 85 years ago.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
we handed iraq to iran on a silver platter, now we have 2 salvagable options that i can see here:
invade iran
partition iraq to at least save the kurd and sunni areas from persian domination.

I lean toward option 2, since its what should have been done 85 years ago.
That and option #1 is impossible unless we nuke Iran. My bet is the whole thing goes to sh*t.
 

miketheidiot

Lifer
Sep 3, 2004
11,062
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
we handed iraq to iran on a silver platter, now we have 2 salvagable options that i can see here:
invade iran
partition iraq to at least save the kurd and sunni areas from persian domination.

I lean toward option 2, since its what should have been done 85 years ago.
That and option #1 is impossible unless we nuke Iran. My bet is the whole thing goes to sh*t.
probably
 

Drift3r

Guest
Jun 3, 2003
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Yes we handed the Iraq Shiites over to Iran because well they have always been friendly with Iran. Why do you think Saddam hated and rounded up and killed so many Shiites to begin with people !! We also handed the Sunnis to Al Qiada's influences as well so we are two for two. The only reason the Kurds aren't causing a ton of mayhem is because they don't give a crap about being part of Iraq and have basically setup their own little country within a country up in the North where they dominate.

Of course if you are Kurdish and travel or live in central Iraq your life must be hell because most traditional Iraqi Sunnis hate Kurds almost as much as they hate Iraqi Shiites. It seems like this war is being run by people who can only think 2 minutes into the future and only remember 2 minutes of the past.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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The U.S is frustrated that no evidence points to Iranians arming the insurgency so the U.S is going around detaining diplomats.

& the U.S will never invade Iran. Iran can sink a U.S carrier and the U.S will still not invade Iran. Air attacks and thd cruise missiles. That's it.
 

Agent11

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2006
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If we partition Iraq we are going to have to keep an eye on the 3 states, Turkey is already saying that they will invade the Kurds if they are independent.. It's a shame, the Kurds are the only group that is actually doing well right now.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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Agent11

The Kurds are playing us like a fiddle right now. They have pretty much agreed not to shoot at us if we keep giving them piles of money and weapons, which we are doing. Meanwhile, they are quietly forcing out the non-Kurds, funding/supplying terrorists in Turkey, and laying the groundwork for an independant Kurdistan.

What we are doing is funding another pain-in-the-ass problem for the future. And the current administration here will do another of its "Who knew?" shrugs when it happens.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Agent11

The Kurds are playing us like a fiddle right now. They have pretty much agreed not to shoot at us if we keep giving them piles of money and weapons, which we are doing. Meanwhile, they are quietly forcing out the non-Kurds, funding/supplying terrorists in Turkey, and laying the groundwork for an independant Kurdistan.

What we are doing is funding another pain-in-the-ass problem for the future. And the current administration here will do another of its "Who knew?" shrugs when it happens.
If you think this is a Bush administration tactic you need to review your history. We've been doing this in various parts of the world for 50 years....
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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Kurds have no reason to attack anyone else because they have always controlled that part of Iraq. When Saddam was in power the Kurds controlled the area they control today.

There are Kurdish terrorist groups that are attacking both Turkey and Iran.
Turkey's military is massive and probably the largest in the M.E. You do not want Turkey invading northern Iraq.

You also don't want a separate Shia state inside Iraq. They will destroy the Sunnis in a day with Iran's help unless Saudi Arabia steps in which will lead to an all out regional war between Shia and Sunni.
 

GalvanizedYankee

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2003
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Kurds have no reason to attack anyone else because they have always controlled that part of Iraq. When Saddam was in power the Kurds controlled the area they control today.

There are Kurdish terrorist groups that are attacking both Turkey and Iran.
Turkey's military is massive and probably the largest in the M.E. You do not want Turkey invading northern Iraq.

You also don't want a separate Shia state inside Iraq. They will destroy the Sunnis in a day with Iran's help unless Saudi Arabia steps in which will lead to an all out regional war between Shia and Sunni.
My Christmas prayer, an all out war between Shia and Sunni :thumbsup:
I want oil trade based on the Euro NOT the dollar. That'll get the neocons up in arms :p
The whole of the ME is a giant boil that needs lancing.

 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
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Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
we handed iraq to iran on a silver platter, now we have 2 salvagable options that i can see here:
invade iran
partition iraq to at least save the kurd and sunni areas from persian domination.

I lean toward option 2, since its what should have been done 85 years ago.
That and option #1 is impossible unless we nuke Iran. My bet is the whole thing goes to sh*t.
Agreed. These tensions can't last forever. I just hope that the new leaders, or even new countries, that emerge are more civil than the current ones.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
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Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Agent11

The Kurds are playing us like a fiddle right now. They have pretty much agreed not to shoot at us if we keep giving them piles of money and weapons, which we are doing. Meanwhile, they are quietly forcing out the non-Kurds, funding/supplying terrorists in Turkey, and laying the groundwork for an independant Kurdistan.

What we are doing is funding another pain-in-the-ass problem for the future. And the current administration here will do another of its "Who knew?" shrugs when it happens.
If you think this is a Bush administration tactic you need to review your history. We've been doing this in various parts of the world for 50 years....
Thats totally unrelated to his post.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,834
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Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
we handed iraq to iran on a silver platter, now we have 2 salvagable options that i can see here:
invade iran
partition iraq to at least save the kurd and sunni areas from persian domination.

I lean toward option 2, since its what should have been done 85 years ago.
That and option #1 is impossible unless we nuke Iran. My bet is the whole thing goes to sh*t.
Agreed. These tensions can't last forever. I just hope that the new leaders, or even new countries, that emerge are more civil than the current ones.
Tell that to the Jews.

 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
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Resolve the Israel Palestine BS and nobody will care about Israel or Palestine anymore. Theyll focus their attention on themselves.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Where have you people been?---its very apparent that Cheney wants to invade Iran according to many sources---just one thing stopping GWB&Co.---and thats reality.

But since when has GWB&Co. paid much attention to reality?
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
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I think is common knowledge by now that Syria and Iran have both been involved in "helping" the Iraq insurgency. Though, I don't think there is much that we can do about it.

Wasn't one of the risks of leaving Iraq, leaving Iran the door open to go invade Saudi Arabi?
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
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Where have you people been?---its very apparent that Cheney wants to invade Iran according to many sources---just one thing stopping GWB&Co.---and thats reality.

On this one issue I think Seymour Hersh should get an honorable mention. ;)






 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Right you are kage69---and according the Seymour Hersh---and well sourced at that--the recent Israeli incursion into Lebanon was supposed to be the dress rehearsal for an Iranian bombing by the US. And thanks to the reality factor--that supposed darling of Cheney's went over like a lead balloon.---and hopefully gave the neo-cons some reason to not double down and raise the bets in the mid-east.---and Iranian sanctions by the UN should also reduce the probability that our commander in thief will ever try that stunt of bombing Iran---which would be the most costly blunder ever in world history.---and make his recent Iraq blunder small in comparison.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
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We could easily start using retalitory strikes against Iran. They kill civilians in Iraq, so we should kill their civilians. Let the civilian population revolt from within Iran. We must fight back against this aggressor. We need to let Iran know we are not going to allow them to hide behind their terrorist thugs, and their military trained terrorists. If some country keeps punching you in the nose, eventually even a sissy girl will start fighting back. I have had enough of this pussy foot, slap them lightly, kind of war. If it is war, then bring it on and lets kill some iranians. I want to see blood in the streets of Tehran, just like Baghdad. Do we have to sit back and let Iran keep bloodying our nose and killing our soldiers?

This is where I think Bush is an idiot. Bring on the 5,000 lbs bombs, the MOAB, and the Cruise Missles. We need to repay Iran for their aggression in Lebanon and Iraq. There has to be something more than a worthless UN resolution that will not be enforced. The UN is a worthless organization.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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Iran is not killing anyone inside Iraq.

You condemn Hezbollah because they are a terrorist organization yet you call for 5,000 pound bombs to be dropped on a city with millions of people.

Excellent. So in return Iran can use their stockpiles of chemical weapons on the U.S and their allies.
Fair Game.
Country with the most civilians killed wins.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Our mistake was that we invaded Iraq, a relatively secular country, and not Iran, a country ruled by Islamic fundamentalists that has sponsored terrorism in the past.

What we should have done was to wipe out the governments of Iran and Syria along with cleaning out Northern Pakistan while exterminating anyone associated with Al Queda and other terrorist groups (Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) mercilessly.

 

tvarad

Golden Member
Jun 25, 2001
1,130
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WhipperSnapper:

Hear, hear. Gaddhafi went cold when a couple of bombs were personally sent up his a*s in the '80s. So far, Syrian and Iranian leaders have not had to face any personal consequences for their actions. Unless Assad, Ahmedijimbob etc. feel such pain for conducting their fight to the last Palestinian, Lebanese etc., little will change in the M.E..
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
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Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Our mistake was that we invaded Iraq, a relatively secular country, and not Iran, a country ruled by Islamic fundamentalists that has sponsored terrorism in the past.

What we should have done was to wipe out the governments of Iran and Syria along with cleaning out Northern Pakistan while exterminating anyone associated with Al Queda and other terrorist groups (Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) mercilessly.
Hezbollah & Hamas are not a U.S problem or a worldwide problem. You would have signed off on sending U.S troops to die for another country with a very capable military?
 

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