I need yur expert advise on an AGP video card of an old system

[lurchbourke]

Hi,
Video card Question for all you buffs who will roar PCI-Express until
I'm
deaf. I'm just wondering firstly is it safe to get a GeForce 7800GS
256MB
video card for my system as you can see in the spec below there's a
lot of
stuff plugged into it, I know it recommends a 350w Power supply for the
card, but does that assume you don't have a load of other stuff in
your
system.

Secondly I'm wondering does it matter which card I buy POINT OF
VIEW,BFG
XFX, etc. GeForce 7800GS 256MB are they all the same.

Thirdly I'm wondering is it worth getting this card would it really
improve
my game performance on my system (see spec).

I'm planning on an over haul in a while but it'll most likely take
me ages
to upgrade to 64-bit and get a new mobo with PCI-EXPRESS etc. so this
video
card seems the best choice to beef up my gaming for the time being.

Thanks for reading this and for your help

Spec:
a7nx8-e deluxe (AGP 8X)
Athlon XP 3200+ Barton
2 X 512mb Twin Moss 3200+ DDR RAM in dual channel mode 400MHz fsb
Audigy2 ZS Digital
LG DVD-RW
CD-RW
500GB Western digital Sata2 H/D capped at 150mb/s
200GB Western digital Sata1 H/D Backup
350W power supply

 

[Steve]

Definitely beef up the PSU, I have that same CPU and it's a beast. However, it's not nearly fast enough to keep up with the fill rate of that video card, meaning the video card will be bored most of the time. If it's just transitional until you upgrade the rest of your system around that card I suppose that's okay then.

 

[tuteja1986]

get a X1950pro agp for $210ish , don't worry about going to PCI E and Dual core. X1950pro AGP can beat the crap out of 7800GS 256MB. I recommend you getting Sapphire version since it has 512MB of ram and has overall the best performance.

Then late next year you can buy Intel Quad core , ATI R680/G81 and vista.

 

[Stumps]

It would be a complete waste of money to buy a 7800GS let alone a x1950 for that system....try a 7600GT at the most, a 6800GT would probably be ideal.

there is very little performance difference between a 6800, 6800GT and 7800GS on a AXP system...having just recently tested this on my AXP 3000+@2.33ghz server often when benchmarking there was a little as 100 points difference in 3Dmarks from the 6800GT to the 7800GS and less than 1500 from the 6800NU.

from my testing the AXP cpu is just too much of a bottleneck even for a 6800GT which will perform considerably better even in a Skt 754 A64 rig.

I used the following hardware in my testing.

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ Barton @ 2333mhz (166x14 1.82v)
Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO Nforce 2 Ultra
1GB DDR400@333 Seitec 6-2-2-2 (2x512mb)

Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 128mb
Asus V9999GT 6800GT 128mb
BFG 7800GS 0C 256mb

 

[CrystalBay]

NM sorry

 

[Paratus]

X1950PRO & 10X7 w/6XAA & 16AF FTW

posted via Palm Life Drive

 

[Noema]

I have a 7800GS and I like it. So far I can still play games like Oblivion with medium settings at 1280x1024 with 25-30fps outdoors.

Regarding the PSU...I had it for about 10 months with a 400W PSU with just 15A on the 12V rail. It ran well; however, my PSU got fried last week, and I wonder if the strain from the 7800Gs had something to do with it. Now I have a 550W PSU with 35A on the 12V rail, and so far, so good.

However, I must agree with Stumps: I'd go for a new system. A cheap, bare bones C2D or X2 mobo, an E6300 and a X1950Pro PCI-E would be a good investment at this point, and would absolutely smoke the fark out of your AXP rig, no matter what GPU you throw in threre.

If you absolutely must stick to AGP, I recommend X1950Pro over the 7800GS, as it will outperform it in pretty much every game (unless you are planning on running Linux extensively; then get the 7800GS due to the better driver support).

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps
It would be a complete waste of money to buy a 7800GS let alone a x1950 for that system....try a 7600GT at the most, a 6800GT would probably be ideal.

there is very little performance difference between a 6800, 6800GT and 7800GS on a AXP system...having just recently tested this on my AXP 3000+@2.33ghz server often when benchmarking there was a little as 100 points difference in 3Dmarks from the 6800GT to the 7800GS and less than 1500 from the 6800NU.

from my testing the AXP cpu is just too much of a bottleneck even for a 6800GT which will perform considerably better even in a Skt 754 A64 rig.

I used the following hardware in my testing.

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ Barton @ 2333mhz (166x14 1.82v)
Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO Nforce 2 Ultra
1GB DDR400@333 Seitec 6-2-2-2 (2x512mb)

Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 128mb
Asus V9999GT 6800GT 128mb
BFG 7800GS 0C 256mb

3d mark is a HORRIBLE test for this and proves *nothing* as you cannot change any details in the *free* version ... or did you use the *Pro* version?

i call 'nonsense' ... the Barton may be *slow* but if you play at *it's* maximum resolution you CAN crank UP the *details* quite a lot ... you may not get any more fps, but you will get much more *eyecandy* including AA and AF

he can also O/C that CPU

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Stumps
It would be a complete waste of money to buy a 7800GS let alone a x1950 for that system....try a 7600GT at the most, a 6800GT would probably be ideal.

there is very little performance difference between a 6800, 6800GT and 7800GS on a AXP system...having just recently tested this on my AXP 3000+@2.33ghz server often when benchmarking there was a little as 100 points difference in 3Dmarks from the 6800GT to the 7800GS and less than 1500 from the 6800NU.

from my testing the AXP cpu is just too much of a bottleneck even for a 6800GT which will perform considerably better even in a Skt 754 A64 rig.

I used the following hardware in my testing.

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ Barton @ 2333mhz (166x14 1.82v)
Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO Nforce 2 Ultra
1GB DDR400@333 Seitec 6-2-2-2 (2x512mb)

Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 128mb
Asus V9999GT 6800GT 128mb
BFG 7800GS 0C 256mb

3d mark is a HORRIBLE test for this and proves *nothing* as you cannot change any details in the *free* version ... or did you use the *Pro* version?

i call 'nonsense' ... the Barton may be *slow* but if you play at *it's* maximum resolution you CAN crank UP the *details* quite a lot ... you may not get any more fps, but you will get much more *eyecandy* including AA and AF

he can also O/C that CPU

I used the pro version of 3Dmark...but it wasn't the only program that I tested, I ran a few games like Doom3, Q4 and FEAR and they show very little improvement when the faster graphics cards are used.

I know that 3Dmark is a horrible benchmark, but it's usually more optimistic than any game and usually gives a best case scenario as far as performance goes.

High end Bartons like the 3000+ and 3200+ can't be overclocked for ******, usually 133-200Mhz is all that people get out of them and it usually only gives em 7-10% extra performance, but they generate a great deal of heat..I had to water cool mine just to keep it around 50C.

the truth is for such an "old" platform a 7800GS or X1950Pro is a complete waste of money...which could be better spent on a faster PCI-E rig.

7600GT's can be had for much less than 7800GS's and X1950pro's (at least in Australia anyway) they perform pretty close to the 7800GS and sometimes manages to beat them, and they may be still overkill for an AXP but I'd rather spend $150 on a video card that will perform the same as a $300+ and save the rest for a sweet C2D rig...

that is if I was worried about upgrading my AXP 3000+ rig....my A64 well thats a different story

 

[Paratus]

An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

What Toms hardware doesn't show are the 6 series AGP cards which don't perform all that much slower than the 7800GS/7600GT, usually less than 10% for 6800 based cards.

 

[Paratus]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

What Toms hardware doesn't show are the 6 series AGP cards which don't perform all that much slower than the 7800GS/7600GT, usually less than 10% for 6800 based cards.

True enough,

But what that review shows is in several instances the X1950PRO is significantly faster than the 7800/7600 - even on a slow AXP 2500.

If the OP wants the most performance get an X1950PRO. If money is more of an issue go with a 6800/7600 card. I'd avoid the 7800GS as the PRO is faster and the 7600GT is cheaper

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: Paratus

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

What Toms hardware doesn't show are the 6 series AGP cards which don't perform all that much slower than the 7800GS/7600GT, usually less than 10% for 6800 based cards.

True enough,

But what that review shows is in several instances the X1950PRO is significantly faster than the 7800/7600 - even on a slow AXP 2500.

If the OP wants the most performance get an X1950PRO. If money is more of an issue go with a 6800/7600 card. I'd avoid the 7800GS as the PRO is faster and the 7600GT is cheaper

For an AXP rig this is pretty much the truth.

but really would it be worth forking out for X1950 AGP just to use it in an old AXP rig....that kinda reminds me of customers that I had back in 2000-2001 who used to shell out for a GF3 just to use it in a K6-2 or P2 rig...overkill and a utter waste of money.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Stumps
It would be a complete waste of money to buy a 7800GS let alone a x1950 for that system....try a 7600GT at the most, a 6800GT would probably be ideal.

there is very little performance difference between a 6800, 6800GT and 7800GS on a AXP system...having just recently tested this on my AXP 3000+@2.33ghz server often when benchmarking there was a little as 100 points difference in 3Dmarks from the 6800GT to the 7800GS and less than 1500 from the 6800NU.

from my testing the AXP cpu is just too much of a bottleneck even for a 6800GT which will perform considerably better even in a Skt 754 A64 rig.

I used the following hardware in my testing.

AMD Athlon XP 3000+ Barton @ 2333mhz (166x14 1.82v)
Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO Nforce 2 Ultra
1GB DDR400@333 Seitec 6-2-2-2 (2x512mb)

Gigabyte GV-N68128DH 6800 128mb
Asus V9999GT 6800GT 128mb
BFG 7800GS 0C 256mb

3d mark is a HORRIBLE test for this and proves *nothing* as you cannot change any details in the *free* version ... or did you use the *Pro* version?

i call 'nonsense' ... the Barton may be *slow* but if you play at *it's* maximum resolution you CAN crank UP the *details* quite a lot ... you may not get any more fps, but you will get much more *eyecandy* including AA and AF

he can also O/C that CPU

I used the pro version of 3Dmark...but it wasn't the only program that I tested, I ran a few games like Doom3, Q4 and FEAR and they show very little improvement when the faster graphics cards are used.

I know that 3Dmark is a horrible benchmark, but it's usually more optimistic than any game and usually gives a best case scenario as far as performance goes.

High end Bartons like the 3000+ and 3200+ can't be overclocked for ******, usually 133-200Mhz is all that people get out of them and it usually only gives em 7-10% extra performance, but they generate a great deal of heat..I had to water cool mine just to keep it around 50C.

the truth is for such an "old" platform a 7800GS or X1950Pro is a complete waste of money...which could be better spent on a faster PCI-E rig.

7600GT's can be had for much less than 7800GS's and X1950pro's (at least in Australia anyway) they perform pretty close to the 7800GS and sometimes manages to beat them, and they may be still overkill for an AXP but I'd rather spend $150 on a video card that will perform the same as a $300+ and save the rest for a sweet C2D rig...

that is if I was worried about upgrading my AXP 3000+ rig....my A64 well thats a different story

i didn't think the Barton was *that* slow

couldn't even get more *details* or AA/AF ... i KNOW the FPS will be *the same*
:shocked:

memories returning ...

barton ... single channel RAM ... starved for bandwith CPU, right?

the p4 w/800FSB was a much better choice until the A64

thanks for reminding me ... but i think you may have left the *details* out of your experiment.

in mine ... a 2.80c at 3.2Ghz ... roughly equal to a stock A64 3200 ... the x1950p didn't necessarily run my games *much faster* or at higher resolution ... rather it allowed me to crank up the details - at least a *notch* ... often many notches.

the difference in the *visuals* -- the eyecandy -- is 'there'

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin

i didn't think the Barton was *that* slow

couldn't even get more *details* or AA/AF ... i KNOW the FPS will be *the same*
:shocked:

memories returning ...

barton ... single channel RAM ... starved for bandwith CPU, right?

the p4 w/800FSB was a much better choice until the A64

thanks for reminding me ... but i think you may have left the *details* out of your experiment.

in mine ... a 2.80c at 3.2Ghz ... roughly equal to a stock A64 3200 ... the x1950p didn't necessarily run my games *much faster* or at higher resolution ... rather it allowed me to crank up the details - at least a *notch* ... often many notches.

the difference in the *visuals* -- the eyecandy -- is 'there'

not on a NF2 platform...it was daul channel and help the AXP quite a bit...but compared to what is availible today...they are pathetically slow...even my trusty old 3000+ which I will keep till it dies, is crap compared to any of my P4 or A64 rigs.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin

i didn't think the Barton was *that* slow

couldn't even get more *details* or AA/AF ... i KNOW the FPS will be *the same*
:shocked:

memories returning ...

barton ... single channel RAM ... starved for bandwith CPU, right?

the p4 w/800FSB was a much better choice until the A64

thanks for reminding me ... but i think you may have left the *details* out of your experiment.

in mine ... a 2.80c at 3.2Ghz ... roughly equal to a stock A64 3200 ... the x1950p didn't necessarily run my games *much faster* or at higher resolution ... rather it allowed me to crank up the details - at least a *notch* ... often many notches.

the difference in the *visuals* -- the eyecandy -- is 'there'

not on a NF2 platform...it was daul channel and help the AXP quite a bit...but compared to what is availible today...they are pathetically slow...even my trusty old 3000+ which I will keep till it dies, is crap compared to any of my P4 or A64 rigs.

ok ...

well, then according to THG, the results are *variable* with an XP 2500+ with Single-Channel RAM - the OP has an XP 3200+ with DC so he should get BETTER results than Tom, right?:

It would seem that the answer is a resounding "sometimes". Depending on the game, some will bottleneck early, and others will give powerful cards like the X1950 PRO some legroom before limiting the maximum frame rate.

Does this mean that the X1950 PRO is unnecessary or a bad buy? Not really: it's a bit more complicated than that. If you're upgrading your AGP video card for a better Oblivion, Need for Speed Carbon, or Prey experience, it's hard to argue with the numbers. Knowing that your old 2500+ or equivalent system could deliver playable high-detail gaming with the X1950 PRO is a compelling reason to dish out $240 or so for a year or two of gaming. It's also notable that the X1950 PRO really pulled ahead when higher levels of anti-aliasing were used.

[in bold] my suggestion

based on this, i'd recommend it IF the OP is already getting *playable frame rates* with his current setup ... if his CPU is too slow, the GPU won't improve FPS ... OTOH, he WILL get more *detail* and some games really benefit from the x1950p over the 7800 AGP series.

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: apoppin
ok ...

well, then according to THG, the results are *variable* with an XP 2500+ with Single-Channel RAM - the OP has an XP 3200+ with DC so he should get BETTER results than Tom, right?:

Yeah that article confuses me...they tested a daul channel mobo with 1 stick of ram

the NF2 Ultra (as used by the A7N8X) performs much better when set in a DC mode with two sticks of ram....no wonder I thought Toms results were a bit funny, but in reality a 2500+ isn't much slower than a 3000+ or 3200+, AXP's didn't scale well with each clock speed increase so really those scores won't increase much.

But what do I know anyway? I'm sure there are plenty of people who will have no problem shelling out for a highend video card for what is now a mid-low end system.

Just seems like a real waste of money to me...

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: apoppin
ok ...

well, then according to THG, the results are *variable* with an XP 2500+ with Single-Channel RAM - the OP has an XP 3200+ with DC so he should get BETTER results than Tom, right?:

Yeah that article confuses me...they tested a daul channel mobo with 1 stick of ram

the NF2 Ultra (as used by the A7N8X) performs much better when set in a DC mode with two sticks of ram....no wonder I thought Toms results were a bit funny, but in reality a 2500+ isn't much slower than a 3000+ or 3200+, AXP's didn't scale well with each clock speed increase so really those scores won't increase much.

But what do I know anyway? I'm sure there are plenty of people who will have no problem shelling out for a highend video card for what is now a mid-low end system.

Just seems like a real waste of money to me...

$250 - minus the costs of the old card?
:Q

that is a cheap upgrade compared with a *makeover*

again ... the OP's Frames Per Second WON'T improve ... BUT he WILL be able to CRANK the *details* with plenty of AA and AF ... in many new games ...

that's the point of Tom's article

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

What Toms hardware doesn't show are the 6 series AGP cards which don't perform all that much slower than the 7800GS/7600GT, usually less than 10% for 6800 based cards.

Hmm that's the info I was looking for.

I was thinking about upgrading to 1950pro at first when the prices come down a bit. but I saw newegg deal of 7800gs for $150 few days ago and read up on it. From the tom's review 7800gs is not too far off from 1950pro, but from 7800gs reviews it was actually not too much faster from my current unlocked 6800.

I guess I'll wait some more.. only game that is slowing down too much is Gothic 3 and COH anyways

 

[apoppin]

forget Gothic3 as a *reason* to upgrade ... no one gets good performance ... it is still buggy afaik
[sadly ... it could have been an awesome game ... beating Oblivion]

 

[MustangSVT]

Originally posted by: apoppin
forget Gothic3 as a *reason* to upgrade ... no one gets good performance ... it is still buggy afaik
[sadly ... it could have been an awesome game ... beating Oblivion]

ya... Could have been..

I think ill just wait and upgrade the whole sytem with dual core later on. Hopefully vista and new games will take advantage of dualcore better than now

 

[Stumps]

Originally posted by: MustangSVT

Originally posted by: Stumps

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AXP at 2+GHZ is probably the slowest CPU I would use with the X1950 PRO. Toms just did a review with an AXP 2500 with the 7800GS & X1950Pro

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/01/10/agp-platform-analysis/

What Toms hardware doesn't show are the 6 series AGP cards which don't perform all that much slower than the 7800GS/7600GT, usually less than 10% for 6800 based cards.

Hmm that's the info I was looking for.

I was thinking about upgrading to 1950pro at first when the prices come down a bit. but I saw newegg deal of 7800gs for $150 few days ago and read up on it. From the tom's review 7800gs is not too far off from 1950pro, but from 7800gs reviews it was actually not too much faster from my current unlocked 6800.

I guess I'll wait some more.. only game that is slowing down too much is Gothic 3 and COH anyways

On an AXP rig thats pretty much how it is...but that doesn't mean that the 7800GS is crap...on a faster A64 or AGP C2D rig an overclocked 7800GS leaves any 6800 series cards for dead...bar none.

I was able to get mine performing slightly ahead of a 7900GS with out any real effort.

 

[lurchbourke]

Hi, thanks for all the comments, based on what you guys have been talkin about i've decided to upgrade my machine, i jus got payed so i'm budgeting myself for about 1000 euro but this is flexible for a new mobo,ram, graphics card and case i'm in ireland so i'm gonna get shafted by the online stores here. There is no where good like newegg not even uk stores, anyone have any ideas of where and what i could buy or should i wait for something before upgrading, i already bought a good SATA 2 hard drive a month ago and my dvd writer is still goin strong so i don't need to upgrade them, but the rest of my current rig i now see will never get me the frame rates i like in games (not to say i don't like eye candy) again thanks for all the discussion and debate and some cat clawing!! you guys rock

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: Noema

I have a 7800GS and I like it. So far I can still play games like Oblivion with medium settings at 1280x1024 with 25-30fps outdoors.

Regarding the PSU...I had it for about 10 months with a 400W PSU with just 15A on the 12V rail. It ran well; however, my PSU got fried last week, and I wonder if the strain from the 7800Gs had something to do with it. Now I have a 550W PSU with 35A on the 12V rail, and so far, so good.

However, I must agree with Stumps: I'd go for a new system. A cheap, bare bones C2D or X2 mobo, an E6300 and a X1950Pro PCI-E would be a good investment at this point, and would absolutely smoke the fark out of your AXP rig, no matter what GPU you throw in threre.

If you absolutely must stick to AGP, I recommend X1950Pro over the 7800GS, as it will outperform it in pretty much every game (unless you are planning on running Linux extensively; then get the 7800GS due to the better driver support).

I played Oblivion with everything on high (The grass distance and all other slider stuff was on default, I maxed the far distances and disabled any shadows except tree shadows and canopy shadows) at 1024x768 with 4xFSAA and 16x Aniso and it was playable, in the worst scenarions could run around the 20's, but usually in the 40's average and I was using V-Sync and Triple Buffering (Which gave almost insignificantly performance to the game) It would only slow down when I had many characters on screen. What I want to say is that the 7800GS is not strong enough in intensive games like Oblivion. So I agree to you to recommend him to get a X1950PRO wich will give better performance.

 

[chizow]

Wow, really nice conceptual article from Tom's. Very practical considering the upgrade decisions facing many older system owners.

Didn't realize the 1950pro dropped so much recently, it was $250-300 just a month or two ago. The 7800GS is actually very cheap now at Newegg, $209 - $50 MIR, so for $160 or so you have the 2nd fastest AGP card out there and well under the $200 price point for budget upgraders.