I need to purchase an SCSI harddrive / controller combo .

[The Linuxator]

I have a 74gb Raptor for winxp-pro and I am running Fedora CORE 4 X86-64 on an old caviar 10GB drive temporarly because my cheap 160GB 5400rpm 2mb western-digital linux drive ( that I used to use for backups or music/pics/videos) took a crap basically.
So I want to take this oppourtunity to venture into SCSI land, I never had the need for an SCSI drive, since I used a raptor for my gaming needs so I need some tips concerning SCSI, but I want a cheap drive for Fedora knowing that FC4 and the apps I have for it need a max of 10-12gb, so I have the ability to sacrefice the storage capacity for some increase in speed.
Plus FC4 like many linux distro takes about 1-1.5 minute or so to boot, so I want to use a 10-20 gb
15k rpm SCSI with some basic PCI controller ( obviously the PCI-e controllers are so freaking expensive so I am not looking into getting one)

I am all ears.

 

[Kyanzes]

Buy a 19/29/39160 controller on eBay only make sure you won't spend more than $50 for it. You can't RAID with them (apart from making dynamic disks under Windows but you couldn't boot into this setup) but they should be more than enough for workstation level environment. For a RAID that can boot you would need a more expensive card. You can always stick to the less expensive controller you are able to find cause the double channel and 64 bit PCI interface won't give you much advantage when running one or two disks. Also, the 32 bit PCI is restricted to 132MB/sec transfer so you couldn't even get close to the theoretical 160MB/sec throughput these cards have to offer (unless you have a spare 64 bit slot in your comp). As for the SCSI drives I would definitely go for the 15K versions just as you have said because the 10K ones wouldn't offer much over the Raptors (in a workstation environment). Actually you could still consider buying additional Raptors and setting up ATA RAID, that would be much less expensive. SCSI will surely offer lower CPU usage than a Raptor raid ofc due to the transfer coordination will be taken over by the SCSI controller working independent on it's own bus not like the SATA controller that will surely eat more CPU. The SCSI drives can disconnect themselves to carry out transfer if you are using them in a closed chain on the same controller. When you are copying stuff from ATA to SCSI this advantage suddenly vanishes ofc because the limited PCI bus comes into play and starts to utilize CPU resources.
Still, with today's CPUs I would still consider a SATA RAID because a modern CPU will always have enough resources to serve the RAID. SCSI becomes less and less important in workstation environment. 10, or even 5 years ago it had a definite advantage over ATA because of the independent CPU on the controller cards.

Edit:
Forgot to add that you should check if the controller you consider comes with one or two Ultra160(!) cables because they can cost the same as the controller
Also: don't buy hdds with optical or SCA connector! Stick to the EDIT: 68 ofc not 80 pin layout. Optical cards cost a fortune while SCA>80pin converters can cause serious instability when using Ultra160 drives.

 

[The Linuxator]

Originally posted by: Kyanzes
Buy a 19/29/39160 controller on eBay only make sure you won't spend more than $50 for it. You can't RAID with them (apart from making dynamic disks under Windows but you couldn't boot into this setup) but they should be more than enough for workstation level environment. For a RAID that can boot you would need a more expensive card. You can always stick to the less expensive controller you are able to find cause the double channel and 64 bit PCI interface won't give you much advantage when running one or two disks. Also, the 32 bit PCI is restricted to 132MB/sec transfer so you couldn't even get close to the theoretical 160MB/sec throughput these cards have to offer (unless you have a spare 64 bit slot in your comp). As for the SCSI drives I would definitely go for the 15K versions just as you have said because the 10K ones wouldn't offer much over the Raptors (in a workstation environment). Actually you could still consider buying additional Raptors and setting up ATA RAID, that would be much less expensive. SCSI will surely offer lower CPU usage than a Raptor raid ofc due to the transfer coordination will be taken over by the SCSI controller working independent on it's own bus not like the SATA controller that will surely eat more CPU. The SCSI drives can disconnect themselves to carry out transfer if you are using them in a closed chain on the same controller. When you are copying stuff from ATA to SCSI this advantage suddenly vanishes ofc because the limited PCI bus comes into play and starts to utilize CPU resources.
Still, with today's CPUs I would still consider a SATA RAID because a modern CPU will always have enough resources to serve the RAID. SCSI becomes less and less important in workstation environment. 10, or even 5 years ago it had a definite advantage over ATA because of the independent CPU on the controller cards.

Edit:
Forgot to add that you should check if the controller you consider comes with one or two Ultra160(!) cables because they can cost the same as the controller
Also: don't buy hdds with optical or SCA connector! Stick to the 80 pin layout. Optical cards cost a fortune while SCA>80pin converters can cause serious instability when using Ultra160 drives.

thanx for the info, but for the most part you misunderstood my post, I am not intending to RAID neither my raptor nor the SCSI drive I will be purchasing, for my gaming needs the Raptor is already doing a hell of a job and a 10 % boost for another $ 170 I will have to shell is pointless, now in some other enviroments RAID is a must but for my gaming in Windows / and my FC4 workstation for me it's an absolutley unecessary expense.
But what I want to do is get me a 10-15k rpm SCSI for FC4 X86-64, since my main Linux drive failed, and I need to get an SCSI inorder to expirement with it and learn about it.
For mainstream 7200rpm ATA I will have to pay for the extra capacity that I will not be needing at all, so I might as well get something with much less cpacity and faster acess time for my need. right now I am planing to pay about $ 30 for the SCSI drive and $ 20-30 for a controller used or new whatever is a availabale.

 

[Arcanedeath]

you can't get a 15k drive cheap enough to make it worth buying over a modern ata drive, I'd suggest just getting the cheapest 7200rpm IDE hdd you can after rebate and using that instead, it will out perform any scsi setup you can get for your budget of $60 for controler and drive.

 

[Pabster]

39160 + 15.4 Cheetah = Heaven

 

[Googer]

If you are going to be running linux then there is no better hardware than LSI, their driver support is the best the industry has to offer. Plus their hardware is cheaper than adaptec's and it performs better too.
[*] PCI-Express X8 (Will fit in a X16 SLI Slot) R.A.I.D. HBA
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/megaraid/megaraid_320_2e.html

[*]PCI-X HBA
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/megaraid/scsi_320_2.html
OR
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/megaraid/scsi_320_4x.html

LINUX and LSI go togheter like a horse and carriage.


EDIT:
I forgot to add the budget options:
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/megaraid/scsi_320_1.html
EXTREME BUDGET RAID
$213
http://www.lsilogic.com/products/scsi_hbas/lsi20320_r.html
http://www.provantage.com/buy-7lsig011-...cable-lsi-logic-lsi20320r-shopping.htm
Check Ebay you can find it for less.

 

[The Linuxator]

Well I mostly considering a 10krpm 18gb SCSI hdd that should run for $ 29 shipped from places like Overstock.com and the controller can be around $ 25 shipped from newegg.com . now they say the drive 80 pins and comes with 80 to 68 pins SCA adapter so what controller should I pick up for it .

 

[The Linuxator]

I have only pci & pci-e 4x slots available in my mobo the x-16 is occupioed by my X800xl

 

[Zepper]

There were a bunch of LSI U-160 cards with LVD cable and terminator on eBay for $22. - HP pulls. Great deal on an excellent card. Unfortunately the guy is in Canada, so it will cost a bit more for shipping than it might otherwise. But just figure that you're getting at least $70. worth of stuff for your money and the bottom line looks really good. A very recent SCSI thread either here or in Peripherals has the link to the eBay item. Search is your friend...
. Yup, still there for another day or so. Just go to eBay and search on LSI U160 SCSI and you'll find it. Excellent buy - the card alone new from the Egg is over $50.+sh and a good cable + term is $20. or so. DL docs and drivers from http://www.lsilogic.com .

.bh.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
I have only pci & pci-e 4x slots available in my mobo the x-16 is occupioed by my X800xl

What kind of motherboard do you have? MSI Makes a Motherboard with an x4 slot that is open ended so that you can stick an x8, x16, or x32 card in there and run it at x4 speed. For $100 or so this might be something worth looking into. LSI Makes the x8 SCSI Controller card.

Don't you have two x16 slots on your motherboard?

 

[islandtechengineers]

"Still, with today's CPUs I would still consider a SATA RAID because a modern CPU will always have enough resources to serve the RAID. SCSI becomes less and less important in workstation environment. 10, or even 5 years ago it had a definite advantage over ATA because of the independent CPU on the controller cards."

As i began to read this thread I started wondering why would you walk down the path of SCSI with SATA in play today; until I saw you wanted to learn about it! SCSI kicks ass (I ran SCSI years ago when SATA wasn't conceived) and most likely you'll still find it within many server closets throughout the world (believe me not everyone upgrades frequently).

 

[The Linuxator]

quote:
originally posted by Googer
quote:
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
I have only pci & pci-e 4x slots available in my mobo the x-16 is occupioed by my X800xl



What kind of motherboard do you have? MSI Makes a Motherboard with an x4 slot that is open ended so that you can stick an x8, x16, or x32 card in there and run it at x4 speed. For $100 or so this might be something worth looking into. LSI Makes the x8 SCSI Controller card.

Don't you have two x16 slots on your motherboard?

well when I was considering my options for a motherboard , The nforce chipsets that I used to like all had driver problems I wasn't even able to install a freaking OS ( the mobo was DFI lanparty NF4 ultra), so I made my first purchase ever of VIA based motherboard and let me tell you for $ 90 I got the top of the line VIA chipset compared to $ 160-200 for a top of the line Nvidia, but the only problem was that It only has 1 x16 Pci-e but I never have any intention to run SLI so, I am ok without it, at least I am switching to crossfire once they come out.
But for now I want a regular PCI card, and a 10k rpm SCSI harddrive , overstock already has my harddrive for $ 25 shipped I only need a recommendation for the SCSI card, and if there arer other equipment I need here

My system is ;

AMD 64 3000+ @ 2.5/2.6 GHZ ( Depending on how hot it gets in here LOL)
Soltek K9890- Pro
1 GB Kingmax PC-3500
ATI 256MB X800XL PCI-e ----> soon to be crossfired.
74gb 10 k rpm raptor
480 W Thermaltake silent power PSU

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: The Linuxator
quote:
originally posted by Googer
quote:
Originally posted by: The Linuxator
I have only pci & pci-e 4x slots available in my mobo the x-16 is occupioed by my X800xl



What kind of motherboard do you have? MSI Makes a Motherboard with an x4 slot that is open ended so that you can stick an x8, x16, or x32 card in there and run it at x4 speed. For $100 or so this might be something worth looking into. LSI Makes the x8 SCSI Controller card.

Don't you have two x16 slots on your motherboard?

well when I was considering my options for a motherboard , The nforce chipsets that I used to like all had driver problems I wasn't even able to install a freaking OS ( the mobo was DFI lanparty NF4 ultra), so I made my first purchase ever of VIA based motherboard and let me tell you for $ 90 I got the top of the line VIA chipset compared to $ 160-200 for a top of the line Nvidia, but the only problem was that It only has 1 x16 Pci-e but I never have any intention to run SLI so, I am ok without it, at least I am switching to crossfire once they come out.
But for now I want a regular PCI card, and a 10k rpm SCSI harddrive , overstock already has my harddrive for $ 25 shipped I only need a recommendation for the SCSI card, and if there arer other equipment I need here

My system is ;

AMD 64 3000+ @ 2.5/2.6 GHZ ( Depending on how hot it gets in here LOL)
Soltek K9890- Pro
1 GB Kingmax PC-3500
ATI 256MB X800XL PCI-e ----> soon to be crossfired.
74gb 10 k rpm raptor
480 W Thermaltake silent power PSU

I saw an MSI Board with an OPEN ENDED (VS closed end) x4 PCI-e slot for $86.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813130491
or this one for my second pick at $129
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813153030

A Google Search for SOLTEK K9890- Pro tuns up nothing. But I found this board that closely matches your description:
http://www.hardcoreware.net/reviews/review-265-1.htm

 

[Googer]

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi...Price=&SubCategory=410&Submit=Property

 

[bob4432]

i run the lsiu160 and have used them in many different setups, still using it in my current rig and have used one in a 2xP3 1GHz machine and also in a 2xP3 733machine.

most of the old 10krpm hdds are loud and hot, just be careful and know this before buying one of the older ones. they will probably have lower strs than current 7200rpm hdds but will make up for that in their low seek times, which will be on par with your raptor.

 

[Zepper]

Re-read my earlier message. No need to look any farther. Still a few hours to go!

.bh.