I need suggestions for a good GForce(x) video card. Please read.

[PC Freak]

I'm building a computer and want to put some type of Geforce card in. Only problem is after Gforce2 I lost track because they're so many types of gforce cards. I don't want or need the top of the line with all the fancy add-on's. What I need is is a card that will play all of today's games with out a problem and is kept at a resonable price. All I need is one that'll play games like UT, Quake3, Jedi Outcast and want be too out dated shortly down the road.
I'd like to keep the price below $150 if possible. What do you suggest. I also need to know what brands to stay away from and which are reputable.

Thanks for the help.

 

[AnAndAustin]

I see you're currently using an Athlon 1.2ghz which it would be worth upgrading next, esp considering how cheap AthlonXP1800+ to XP2000+ are. Anyway on to the cards.

Here's a quick run down of the current nVidia offerings:

GF2: Lousy image quality (IQ), GF2TI is a good 50% faster than the GF2MX.
GF3: Slightly better IQ but are essentialy nothing more than adding DX8 hw and a whole lot faster in 3D inc AA & AF. TI200 is a fair bit slower than TI500 but tends to o/c VERY well.
GF4MX: Suped up GF2 cards seriously improving 3D perf, IQ, dual display, hw DVD playback and slightly enhance TVout/VIVO too. 3D-wise MX420 is a fair bit faster than GF2MX and is very near GF2GTS perf. MX440 is faster than GF2TI and GF2Ultra (esp GF4MX440-8X) while GF4MX460 is faster again but still no where near GF3 3D perf and still completely lack DX8 hw.
GF4TI: Suped up GF3 cards seriously improving 3D perf (esp on faster CPUs), IQ, dual display and slightly enhance AA and TVout/VIVO too. 4200 isn't a whole lot faster than GF3TI500 but it o/c's to GF4TI4400 levels which is significantly faster. TI4400 is about 15% faster than a 4200 and 4600 is about 10% faster than 4400.

Then on to the Radeon cards:

Rad7500: GF2GTS/TI 3D perf but with the same sort of enhancements GF4MX have (IQ, DD, DVD etc).
Rad8500: GF3TI500 3D perf inc DX8 hw but again offer GF4MX style enhancements (IQ, DD, DVD etc). 8500LE is about 10% slower than 8500.
Rad9000: Quite a lot slower than Rad8500 but are cheaper to make. They enhance IQ and DVD playback further but 8500 are certainly better cards. Rad9000 is 20% slower than Rad9000PRO which in turn is 15% slower than Rad8500LE (10% slower than Rad8500).
Rad9700: By far the best card currently available incorporating DX9 and awesome 3D, AA, AF etc. But it does cost!

So without a doubt I'd say 4200 is your card. Without getting too deep go for the 128MB version. Brand matters very little so cheapest is often best. The only things to watch out for is the odd manu who only supply 1 output port which kills DD and the manus known to skimp on some of their 4200 cards are AOpen, EVGA and the standard Gainward cards. The Albatron 4200 P 128MB from Newegg seem very good and very popular. Rad8500LE-128MB is great if you need to spend less and at Athlon 1.2ghz isn't much slower than a GF4TI4200, it's a fine alternative.

 

[Mem]

The GF4 Ti4200 are good value for money,the Leadtek and Gainward are excellent on image quality,if your budget can stretch it`s worth getting the 128mb versions if you intend to keep the card for awhile.
Btw the MSI GF4 TI4200 is also worth considering since it`s normally slightly cheaper and has excellent software bundle,just remember in general GF4s have good image quality compared to the earlier models.

 

[rogue1979]

If you wanna stick with a Geforce, than the GF4 TI4200 is perfect for your budget.

AnAndAustin is usually pretty accurate on video card facts. But I have to disagree about the horrible image quality of the GF2 and GF3 chipsets. It ws highly dependant on the manufacturer, some where horrible others were quite nice.

This being said there is also the low-pass filter capacitor mod which really works well for sub-par image quality on GF2 or GF3. The actual chipsets do support excellent 2D and 3D image, it was poor materials used for the low pass filters that degraded the image quality. When using a quality brand and/or doing the mod the GF2/GF3 is very close or equal to Radeon 8500 quality.

Another possibility is picking up a Geforce3 Ti200 (Gainward Ti450 is $84 shipped on pricewatch) and then using the rest of your money to upgrade your cpu to the XP1600+ AGIOA-Y for under $60 shipped. The Gainward already has excellent image quality if you don't won't to try the low-pass filter capacitor mod (it is easy) and will overclock higher than GF3 Ti500 speeds. The cpu will hit 1700-1800MHz easy.

 

[PC Freak]

Thanks to everyone... I really do appreciate the input.
For the record, this isn't to replace my current Gefore2. I paid $350 when it first came out and i'm keeping it until it completely dies. Getting my money's worth from it. It's been an awesome card and has had no problems playing any games I've thrown it's way.

No... this card i'm looking for is for my friend. He currently runs a AMD K6-2 450, 64 MB PC-66 mem and a TNT card (not TNT2, older).
I've read the reviews from the latest Maximum PC magizine and they also recommend the Geforce4 Ti 4200 card. I have only been able to find the 64MB ver, but now that I know where to get the 128MB card, I'll give him the choice.
I pretty sure the 4200 is the card for him, no doubt. I appreciate all the help.

 

[PC Freak]

Here's a cut and paste of an Aopen off of pricewatch. The only one cheaper was a Jaton but it was only by 2 or 3 dollars and they did sound like they were skipping out on the cards to keep the cost down. But the card below sounds like its packed with a good bit of fun goodies.

AnAndAustin, you mentioned that Aopen was one company that gets skimpy with their cards. I'm not doubting you. I'm asking if this looks ok.

Aopen - Video Cards
Info...

ONLINE ORDER ONLY -
AOpen nVidia GeForce4 TI 4200 DDR 128MB - Retail Box, TV-OUT, DVI-Out
GeForce 4 ti 4200 TI4200 128mb DDR 4x AGP w/ TV-OUT, DVI, FREE nVIDIA LOGO!
(Part - VC-AO-0007)
Price: $ 137

Ship: $0.95 Flat Fee No Charge FEDEX 3 DAYS INSURED
Updated:9/26, 9:56 AM
$137.95

 

[Zipp]

Here's a review of an Aopen Geforce TI4200 PC_Freak

link

 

[AnAndAustin]

Oh dear. A K6-2 450mhz will be pointless with a GF3TI200 let alone a GF4TI4200. It's pretty much pointless sticking anything better than a GF2TI, GF4MX420, GF4MX440, Rad7500 or Rad9000 in there. He should def consider a mobo (SktA $50), CPU (AthlonXP1600+ $50 or AthlonXP2000+ $90) and RAM (256MB PC2700 $30) upgrade. PC_Freak have you considered selling him your GF2 and gettig a GF4TI4200 yourself. Your PC deserves something better than a GF2 while putting anything much better in his is very wasteful.

AOpen use 4.5ns RAM in their GF4TI4200-128MB which means the RAM is running at maximum technical speed at default 444mhz meaning likely instability, poss lower default clocks and even a puny o/c of 460mhz is often out of the question. Nearly all other std 4200-128 get from 250/444 to 300/550 which is faster than a GF4TI4400. If the AOpen 4200-128 was a lot cheaper than the other 4200-128 then it'd be worth considering but I'd def go elsewhere. AOpen along with EVGA and std Gainward 4200 are primarily based on consumers experiences, often review sites get the 'cream of the crop' which is why I wouldn't take too much to heart from any review site. In fact the review stated confirms the AOpen 4200-64MB uses 4.0ns which once again is technicly maxed out at the default of 500mhz meaning once again likely instability, poss lower default clocks and it will really hurt any o/c. I don't like that review as it's clear that the reviewer is biased towards AOpen cards as he often blurrs whether he's talking about the 4200-64 or 4200-128 which come with diff RAM and diff clock speeds. Anyway nearly all 4200-64 use 3.6ns RAM reaching an o/c of 300/600 which is near 4600 clock speeds of 300/650, of course only having 64MB of RAM will hurt and a 4200-128 is a wiser purchase.

So whether you buy AOpen's 4200-64MB or 4200-128MB you are in fact getting cheap nasty RAM which is likely to effect stability, may be clocked lower than it should be and will definitely inhibit o/c'ing. The annoying thing is that implimenting the better RAM is likely to raise the cost by no more than $4, very annoying. AVOID!

 

[PC Freak]

OMG LMAO.... no, he's not keeping that old 450. He's upgrading to a Athlon XP 2000. And a video that can o/c is mute. No need for any type of o/c'ing.
OK... we're staying away from Aopen. Let me see what else I can find.

 

[PC Freak]

AnAndAustin, what if i went with something like the Epox 8RGA+. It has Firewire and built in GeForce 4 MX graphics. As long as this card is better than my current GForce2 64meg GTS card, then I would feel comfortable getting this one for him.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well that sounds like it's an nForce2 mobo. The built in gfx will be on par with a GF2GTS (little slower than a TI) although image quality, DVD playback etc will be enhanced. The nForce2 are great mobos and you can add a better AGP gfx card later on, which is certainly a good idea as you won't gain anything having a CPU faster than Duron 1ghz with a GF2/GF4MX. If you get an nForce mobo and plan to use the o/b gfx then do be sure the mobo has DUAL CHANNEL RAM and then buy 2 sticks of RAM in ordert to use it.

With an XP2000+ you really shouldn't settle for less than a GF4TI4200. Don't forget the GF4MX are simply slightly enhanced GF2 and hugely inferior in 3D to a GF3. The GF4TI are faster enanced verisons of the GF3 and the 4200 is a lot of bang for buck. If you buy either a GF3TI200 or GF4TI4200 you really should o/c as these cards are intentionally underclocked in order to shift the more expensive cards. Nearly all 4200 are capable of TI4400 perf.

As for which 4200, everybody loves Newegg and they do an Albatron-P 4200 128MB DVI+VGA TV-Out. w/DVI adaptor for about $141, that seems very good value. Link?

 

[PC Freak]

ok. thanks sooooo much.
Here's another one for you....
Mobo's... i've got a Epox 8KTA3 and love it to death. I'd like to by another Epox for the stability and price. Any suggestions in this department? Epox or otherwise.

 

[Mem]

PC_Freak,
GF4 Ti4200 roundup here ,motherboard wise I would say the Epox EP-8K5A2+ or EP-8K5A3+ ,both are based on the VIA KT333 chipset,the new Epox EPoX 8K9A2+ here is looking good.It really is down to what you want spec wise on the board,Epox are great for stability and OC.

Btw there`s a big thread by Insane3D on these boards at the motherboard forum here .

 

[PC Freak]

Thanks Mem. Ya I read Insane3D's thread. I can't find what i'm lookin for there so i thought i'd just ask here.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Here's some more 4200 roundups but I'd emphasise again they are only good for a rough idea. It's plain to see that manu makes very little diff for GF4TI cards with the exception of the 'cheap-out' versions where in slower RAM, lower clocks or only 1 port is supplied. Other than those all perf, o/c'ability, features, image quality etc are all pretty much identical across the board so really price and bundle should be the most decisive factors.

Tech Report 4200 roundup
AnAndTech 4200 roundup

As for mobos it tends to be the chipset which is more important than the manu, although if you have found Epox to be good (as many people have) then there's no reason not to stick with them providing the price diffs aren't huge. As for SktA mobo chipsets:

VIA: KT333 isn't hugely better than KT266A, basicly can run PC2700 async (3% perf boost) and has the PCI divider for 333FSB although it isn't guaranteed to run at 333FSB. KT400 is the newest and should be the most future proof. It unoff allows PC3200 and 400FSB while 333FSB is now certified and things like ATA133, USB2 and AGP8x are now built in as standard. IIRC KT400 overcomes the quirky VIA PCI bus which has often proved problematic with PCI RAID and SB Live soundcards. In a nutshell VIA tend to be the fastest (only slightly) and certainly VERY tweakable and o/c'able (nForce2 is also very good on both of these counts) but VIA although cheap and popular are known to be the quirkiest mobo chipsets going.

SiS: 735 and 745 are the most available and there's very little diff between them, IIRC 745 simply allows async PC2700 but it is slower than synced PC2100 so don't buy it for that! These are known to be very robust, compatible and stable chipsets but severely lacking in the tweaking and o/c'ing dept.

nVidia nForce: nForce (nForce1) come in a variety of flavours and are very similar to SiS (very comp and stable but lack tweaking) but with great o/b goodies. Types are 215, 220, 415, 420 and some have the 'D' added to the end which means they do Dolby 5.1 sound. The 4__ have Dual Channel RAM (reqs 2 sticks) but it's pointless unless you use the o/b gfx which are GF2MX200 and built in to the _20, very underpowered for even basic gaming. The things they have in common is great o/b sound and great o/b LAN, they do all tend to be quite pricey though. nForce2 are just out and upgrade a number of things most notably the GF4MX420 o/b gfx which is much better than GF2MX but still very underpowered, dual LAN, better Dual Channel RAM, ATA133, AGP8x, USB2, firewire and 333FSB support along with PC2700 and unoff PC3200 support. Along with VIA KT400 the nForce2 is by far the most future proof chipset although KT333 should be pretty fine too.

 

[PC Freak]

Ok guys... here's the system he's getting (and i get a pretty good, unexpected, deal out of it)

AMD Athlon XP 2000 (1.67GHz) 266FSB $90
Epox 8KHAL KT266A mobo $72.00
Micron PC2100 DDR 256meg $66.00
IBM Deskstar 60 GXP 40GB $ 74.85
HS/Fan Vantec 6040 Copper K $ 25.95 <-- sweet fan, I use it myself.

I get the:
Albatron Geforce4 Ti 4200 128meg card. He pays 141.00.
and I give him my Geforce2 GTS 64meg.

The GF4 4200 is my payment.

Total $469.80 most of the stuff includes shipping already or is free .

 

[AnAndAustin]

CPU is very nice and powerful, although it won't o/c you are certain to get very reliable, stable and great perf from it. $72 seems a bit much for a KT266A mobo. The KT266A is still a fine choice but will not handle 333FSB should you want that in the future, most KT333 do and all KT400 do. Micron are cool and PC2100 is sufficient on Axp as there's little gain from PC2700 anyway, esp since with an XP2000+ o/c'ing is a non-issue. 256MB is more than fine, more is nicer but 256MB doesn't hurt perf and is cost effective. I'd avoid IBM, great HD brand in the past but not anymore and IIRC they're stopping shipping and upholding warranties too. Also the price diff between 40GB and 80GB is VERY small and it never hurts to have that extra room. He wouldn't want to use a GF2GTS in the long term but it will tide him over until he can get more cash together, with the prices of Rad8500LE-128MB and GF4TI4200 it makes sense to give that CPU a gfx card to match even for casual gaming. Anyway he'll love the perf boost from that new setup as you will from a 4200.

 

[tenoc]

Delete the IBM Deathstar. Insert Maxtor or WD.

 

[PC Freak]

O/C'ing isn't an issue but thanks for the heads up.
According to Epox's website this mobo will support up to a Athlon XP 2600, so he'll be able to upgrade if he feels so inclined.

To be quite honest this computer isn't being built for a computer enthuisist. He uses it for Office and 2D type apps. The GF2 is only for just incase his son wants to play a game or too. But he's so into Nintendo then it prob want get used.

Western Digital WD400BB 40.0GB 7200RPM EIDE Ultra ATA OEM = $74.00
MAXTOR 40.0GB 6E040L0) 40GB EIDE UDMA/133 7200RPM = $78.50
IBM Deskstar 60GXP 40GB ATA 100 7200RPM = $74.85

This all includes shipping. I have this exact ibm drive and know from experience that's is a fast realible drive. I'll stick with it.

 

[PC Freak]

Well guys it's all ordered.
I did go ahead and get the WD HD because the website I was getting the IBM from pissed me off. It was pretty crappy.

I really do appreciate all the help today. Until next time.