I need some info about smart thermostats

[Captante]

My nests are controllable via my nest account. Good luck to anyone trying to gain access. 2FA in place, and devices on an isolated vlan, just in case.

The BEST protection is in not really being worth the trouble lol ... and despite our delusions to the contrary around here (lol) that includes most of us!

Trust me ... if the bad people get a stiffie for you (or me!) we are in deep dodo and no 2fa or consumer-level network security is going to matter much. (wifi off and disconnect the ethernet cable physically = the only 100% sure way)

About your privacy sir? I'm afraid that was only a rumor.

 

[GrumpyMan]

Another value added feature of smart thermostats is that your energy company can go and turn up your thermostat if think it's necessary to keep the grids within spec so there are no brownouts. So if you get home and your thermostat is up to 82 degrees, you will know why, if you've opted in of course.

Tricky may get sticky

 

[Captante]

Another value added feature of smart thermostats is that your energy company can go and turn up your thermostat if think it's necessary to keep the grids within spec so there are no brownouts. So if you get home and your thermostat is up to 82 degrees, you will know why, if you've opted in of course.

Tricky may get sticky

"Value-added" for who exactly?


Don't live in Texas by any chance do you?

 

[GrumpyMan]

"Value-added" for who exactly?

Not for me! In Texas if you raise anyone's thermostat, well, you've got a fight on your hands. Thing is, energy companies kind of trick you into opting in. Most people don't realize it.

 

[Captante]

Not for me! In Texas if you raise anyone's thermostat, well, you've got a fight on your hands. Thing is, energy companies kind of trick you into opting in. Most people don't realize it.

They did exactly that to a bunch of people just recently in Texas.

Would certainly make ME think twice about how "smart" something like an "internet-aware" thermostat is.

 

[GrumpyMan]

Yep I linked to the story.

 

[ch33zw1z]

The BEST protection is in not really being worth the trouble lol ... and despite our delusions to the contrary around here (lol) that includes most of us!

Trust me ... if the bad people get a stiffie for you (or me!) we are in deep dodo and no 2fa or consumer-level network security is going to matter much. (wifi off and disconnect the ethernet cable physically = the only 100% sure way)

About your privacy sir? I'm afraid that was only a rumor.

Privacy has been a problem since the internet has been around. Google knows me better than I know myself. A thermostat isn't a bigger security risk than my phone or PC. Isolated IoT devs and ensure maximum allowed authentication protection, that's all you can do

 

[GrumpyMan]

Yeah it's not a security concern but it's kind of like the Department of Public Safety loging into to your car or truck while you're driving and if they think you are going too fast, they would throttle you down to the speed limit. Thermostat is kind of private in my view, don't touch! lol

 

[Captante]

Privacy has been a problem since the internet has been around. Google knows me better than I know myself. A thermostat isn't a bigger security risk than my phone or PC. Isolated IoT devs and ensure maximum allowed authentication protection, that's all you can do

On this point I must disagree ... I pop the power cable on my "google assistant" that's built into my Chromecast/Google TV when not using it and disable "Hey Google" on my phone without a button-press to activate it... I also disconnect the USB mic from my PC. (these are the only devices I use that ADMIT to listening in)

The only way to protect the tiny bubble of relative privacy we still have in our homes isn't to install 24/7 active "bugs" in every room (and at the front door to monitor the street!) shockingly.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I KIND of like the idea of how they can control the thermostat based on energy demand, however I feel they should extend this in such a way that it's not just for hvac and not directly being controlled.

Basically the way it should work is that when there is too much energy being generated the rates should be lower. Via the web API you would be able to determine this, and thus choose to use more power for things like baseboard heaters, instead of running the natural gas furnace. Or if there is too much energy being drawn there should be an incentive to use less as the rate would be a bit higher if you are over a certain threshold. So in the web API this would be accessible too and you could use it to make sure your hvac is not running, or other big loads. Basically it would still give power to the homeowner to decide what to do and how to implement it. They could of course sell smart power bars for those who don't want to code everything themselves, but both options should be available.

This could also be a good incentive for those that have battery storage or an EV as you could charge/discharge it based on grid demand.

I think the future needs to be to have tons of renewables and energy storage on the grid, and simply manage the overproduction well. Storing excess power as thermal energy is probably the easiest way to go.

 

[ch33zw1z]

On this point I must disagree ... I pop the power cable on my "google assistant" that's built into my Chromecast/Google TV when not using it and disable "Hey Google" on my phone without a button-press to activate it... I also disconnect the USB mic from my PC. (these are the only devices I use that ADMIT to listening in)

The only way to protect the tiny bubble of relative privacy we still have in our homes isn't to install 24/7 active "bugs" in every room (and at the front door to monitor the street!) shockingly.

Lol, I turn those things off as well. I don't have any listening devices other than my phone. But you know it's still listening. Privacy is not assumed anymore.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I avoid all "smart" things, phone is the one that's kind of impossible to go without these days, but I wish there were better options, something open source running an OS that is not designed around spying on you. It CAN be done, it's just that these companies don't want to.

Internet in of itself is not a breach of privacy if you have control over everything that connects to it, the issue is that we are losing that control more and more.

 

[Captante]

But you know it's still ALWAYS listening. COMPLETE AND UTTER LACK OF privacy is not TO BE assumed. anymore.

ftfy!

 

[ch33zw1z]

I avoid all "smart" things, phone is the one that's kind of impossible to go without these days, but I wish there were better options, something open source running an OS that is not designed around spying on you. It CAN be done, it's just that these companies don't want to.

Internet in of itself is not a breach of privacy if you have control over everything that connects to it, the issue is that we are losing that control more and more.

And telcos get to watch all your traffic...

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Maybe google is getting smarter.
I read the nest WiFi devices now have a switch to turn off the microphone.
Appears many people didn’t see value in having google voice searches from their WiFi router, same with music.
I fully support this. I see little value to these things and I really don’t want to expand upon the snooping devices in my home.
I like my amazon Alexa puck for music every now and then but I do not like an open mic in my house 24/7.
I do what many people do, unplug it while not using it.

 

[Captante]

Maybe google is getting smarter.
I read the nest WiFi devices now have a switch to turn off the microphone.
Appears many people didn’t see value in having google voice searches from their WiFi router, same with music.
I fully support this. I see little value to these things and I really don’t want to expand upon the snooping devices in my home.
I like my amazon Alexa puck for music every now and then but I do not like an open mic in my house 24/7.
I do what many people do, unplug it while not using it.

Assuming the switch is actually connected to anything!

Paranoia/realism dictates that it does about as much as the "door-close" button on most elevators! (ie: just there to keep you busy!)

I do what many people do, unplug it while not using it

Hack that m/f'er's!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Assuming the switch is actually connected to anything!

Paranoia/realism dictates that it does about as much as the "door-close" button on most elevators! (ie: just there to keep you busy!)

I am more than sure some nerd has taken it apart and verified power or whatever to the speaker.
No way is something like that getting added to a premier product and not have a nerd take it apart.
Some dumb Chinese wind chime with a mic maybe could slip by but not a google product.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Assuming the switch is actually connected to anything!

Paranoia/realism dictates that it does about as much as the "door-close" button on most elevators! (ie: just there to keep you busy!)







Hack that m/f'er's!

Yeah my typical Alexa use is:
Unplug whatever is occupying the plug
Plug Alexa in
Say “Alexa play some Iron Maiden or Nativity in Black”
Listen while cleaning
Unplug Alexa/plug whatever back in

 

[Captante]

I am more than sure some nerd has taken it apart and verified power or whatever to the speaker.
No way is something like that getting added to a premier product and not have a nerd take it apart.
Some dumb Chinese wind chime with a mic maybe could slip by but not a google product.

Yeah ... just because its connected to something and getting power is no promise of anything!




I'd say it's more likely flipping that switch to "off" just turns up the mic's gain!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Yeah ... just because its connected to something and getting power is no promise of anything!




I'd say it's more likely flipping that switch to "off" just turns up the mic's gain!

Dunno, if the switch is a physical power switch I’d say it is pretty safe

 

[Captante]

Dunno, if the switch is a physical power switch I’d say it is pretty safe

Not trusting Google no matter what you say sorry!

We are at the tail-end of being semi-protected by lack of real AI and insanely massive amounts of collected data being relatively useless as a whole due to its size and the time it would take for a human being to review it.

In the disturbingly near future you can count on AI breaking down literally every word you say in range of its "ears" IN REAL-TIME ... with the listening/recording/viewing devices which will have been installed nearly everywhere voluntarily by then (!!).

Makes 1984's "Big Brother" sound quaint.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Per a tear down from the verge and similar conclusion from ifixit

two-state switch that determines whether it’s muted. Flip it, and it cuts off the mics on a hardware level, with no way to turn them back on short of flipping the switch back.

 

[Captante]

Don't be silly ... OBVIOUSLY I'm just paranoid!

I'm certain this sort of thing NEVER happens! (might want to unplug that headset AND your powered speakers too!)


Sleep well!

The bad news is that they won't just have "a file" on you anymore after a few years, hell they won't even have a snap-shot it will be live audio and/or video.

Our lives will be one step away from the dang "Truman Show" with producers altering our "reality" to suit the whim of advertisers for starters at least.

I've already caught PC items on sale BUT shown to me at full-price I assume because I've been searching for them frequently. Several times using a VPN I've seen sales merchants apparently wanted me to miss.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Don't be silly ... OBVIOUSLY I'm just paranoid!

I'm certain this sort of thing NEVER happens! (might want to unplug that headset AND your powered speakers too!)


Sleep well!

The bad news is that they won't just have "a file" on you anymore after a few years, hell they won't even have a snap-shot it will be live audio and/or video.

Our lives will be one step away from the dang "Truman Show" with producers altering our "reality" to suit the whim of advertisers for starters at least.

I've already caught PC items on sale BUT shown to me at full-price I assume because I've been searching for them frequently. Several times using a VPN I've seen sales merchants apparently wanted me to miss.

Cool, they should tailor my porn searches better, and live replay my vinegar strokes when I demand it.

 

[MrSquished]

I refuse to have a speaker in my house that is always listening to everything. But I don't mind a thermostat that will set my temp to an eco mode when I leave the house in case I forget to change it myself.