I Need It Louder

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,125
779
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Room is 12X22, I sit about 10' from the speakers
Receiver: Denon 3313ci - 125 WPC (Iam running in stereo mode)
Speakers: Def Tech 2006tl - rated at 92dB - using binding posts and LFE for subs
Getting about 86dB at listening position
I'd like it much louder.
What should I be looking at doing? New speakers? Separates?
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
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One word: Klipschorns.

(Seriously though: You need a separate sub. Or two. Those eight-inchers in your 2006s are quite small and by this point, seriously out of date.)

(Also: 86dB, what weighting? Peak or average? What source? Using a mixed source (like a typical movie or music) versus a 1kHz test tone can lead to drastically different results....)
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
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tbqhwy.com
whats limiting you now distortion?

running trim levels at 0 and max volume on the AVR you should be able to get those louder

but new speakers are always nice
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
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Theres nothing wrong with those DefTech speakers. I suspect something is amiss in your setup in your receiver. Denon uses Audyssey so I would poke around in those settings. Or re-run set-up.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,125
779
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I checked the SPL with an Android app.
Not being limited by distortion, it just doesn't go louder.
I'll run the set up again. Maybe I have my speakers set to the wrong size.
 

Anubis

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Aug 31, 2001
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tbqhwy.com

razel

Platinum Member
May 14, 2002
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Room is 12X22, I sit about 10' from the speakers
Receiver: Denon 3313ci - 125 WPC (Iam running in stereo mode)
Speakers: Def Tech 2006tl - rated at 92dB - using binding posts and LFE for subs
Getting about 86dB at listening position
I'd like it much louder.
What should I be looking at doing? New speakers? Separates?

92db sensitivity is very high and only 86db at 10ft away? That reminds me of volumes you'd get outdoors! My living room is slightly larger, actually it's shared with the kitchen, but point being, my speakers are lowish 86db sensitivity and it's plenty loud.

Like other's have mentioned what were you measuring that's 86db? White noise, 1khz tone, whatever is playing on TV? The 1khz tone will be the loudest. I guess the easiest way to find out is to barrow a friend's speakers to see if something is blantantly wrong. Best of luck.
 

crashtech

Lifer
Jan 4, 2013
10,695
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I think it is probably the receiver. I'd probably do some noodling around with a DVM and test tones to see if the amp is even approaching its rated output. If you listen in stereo pretty exclusively, you might invest in a couple of used beefy monoblocks. Then you will never lack for power again.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,125
779
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The app is Sound Meter Lite and I played Kashmir by Led Zepplin. I measured it at various spots and 86 was the highest.
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,173
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Here's an old review that claims the sensitivity is only 86.5 dB.

On-axis response of the BP2006TL L/R measures +1.48/-4.13 decibels from 200 hertz to 10 kilohertz. The -3dB point is at 33 Hz, and the -6dB point is at 31 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 2.99 ohms at 123 Hz and a phase angle of 20.25 degrees at 166 Hz. Sensitivity is 86.5 dB from 500 Hz to 2 kHz.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/definitive-technology-bp2006tl-speaker-system-page-3

Also, impedance dips to below 3 ohms. You need an assload more power to really drive those. Or, buy some horns, as mentioned above.
 

stockwiz

Senior member
Sep 8, 2013
403
15
81
Not sure why you can't go louder... your speakers and receiver are more expensive than mine, your receiver rated for slightly more power, and mine can go louder and sounds great. My polk monitors have a sensitivity of 90db. The built in subwoofers shouldn't consume that much power given they're 8 inch and probably can't get terribly low. Hooking up my rythmik sub to the kill-a-watt it only uses a decent amount of power during movies when it hits the room shaking frequencies. You could try cutting off frequencies below 80HZ if you can and seeing how loud you can get. If you're looking for a sub I'll save you some digging and give you the best subs for the buck in various price ranges...

Sub $400... Acoustech PL-200 .. a boomy sounding sub... not very 'musical' but ample for movies ... 12 inch ported sub rated at 250 watts with 'bash' technology.

$400-800 ... Rythmik LV12R ... a nice step up... one of the most 'musical' ported subs I've come across... and ample for home threater as well... much flatter frequency response and goes quite a bit lower than the Acoustech. 12 inch ported sub rated at 300 watts with 'direct servo' technology.

$800-1200... HSU VTF-3 MK5 or HSU VTF-15H MK2 .... great bang for the buck.. plenty of power to shake the house... perhaps not quite as tight as the Rythmik for music but very close. 15 inch ported subs rated at 600 watts. Take note of their size and weight before ordering.
 
Last edited:

stockwiz

Senior member
Sep 8, 2013
403
15
81
Description of the APP you are using to get your sound measurements:

"REMEMBER!! The built-in microphones were aligned to human voice (300-3400Hz, 40-60dB). Therefore the maximum values are LIMITED by the hardware limitation, and very loud sound(100+ db) cannot be recognized. Moto Droid (max.100), Galaxy S3 (81dB), Galaxy Note (91dB), Galaxy S2 (98dB)...
SPL(sound pressure level) meter app uses your built-in microphone to measure noise volume in decibels(db), and shows a reference. We had calibrated many android devices with the actual sound level meter with dB(A).
See the 4-6th pictures. I had calibrated many android devices with an actual sound level meter. You can trust the result in routine-noise levels (40-70dB). But, please use it as an auxiliary tool."
 

Carson Dyle

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2012
8,173
524
126
What freaking difference does the sound meter make? If they don't play loud enough for him in his room, they don't play loud enough. Measurements don't matter.
 

NutBucket

Lifer
Aug 30, 2000
27,154
635
126
Because he's using the app and stating "this is how loud it is". It would be like me saying my car isn't fast enough. It takes 20 seconds to go 0-60....I measured it with an hourglass!

If he had just said it isn't loud enough there would be no issue.

EDIT: OP is old, leave him alone.
 

tential

Diamond Member
May 13, 2008
7,348
642
121
Not sure why you can't go louder... your speakers and receiver are more expensive than mine, your receiver rated for slightly more power, and mine can go louder and sounds great. My polk monitors have a sensitivity of 90db. The built in subwoofers shouldn't consume that much power given they're 8 inch and probably can't get terribly low. Hooking up my rythmik sub to the kill-a-watt it only uses a decent amount of power during movies when it hits the room shaking frequencies. You could try cutting off frequencies below 80HZ if you can and seeing how loud you can get. If you're looking for a sub I'll save you some digging and give you the best subs for the buck in various price ranges...

Sub $400... Acoustech PL-200 .. a boomy sounding sub... not very 'musical' but ample for movies ... 12 inch ported sub rated at 250 watts with 'bash' technology.

$400-800 ... Rythmik LV12R ... a nice step up... one of the most 'musical' ported subs I've come across... and ample for home threater as well... much flatter frequency response and goes quite a bit lower than the Acoustech. 12 inch ported sub rated at 300 watts with 'direct servo' technology.

$800-1200... HSU VTF-3 MK5 or HSU VTF-15H MK2 .... great bang for the buck.. plenty of power to shake the house... perhaps not quite as tight as the Rythmik for music but very close. 15 inch ported subs rated at 600 watts. Take note of their size and weight before ordering.

Just because the receiver/speakers are more expensive has nothing to do with loudness...
It's all down to tech specs. You don't defy the rules of physics because you spent more cash.

And Polk Monitors sound horrendous at loud volumes. I know, I have them and it's their perf at loud volumes that makes me want to replace them so desperately.

92db sensitivity is very high and only 86db at 10ft away? That reminds me of volumes you'd get outdoors! My living room is slightly larger, actually it's shared with the kitchen, but point being, my speakers are lowish 86db sensitivity and it's plenty loud.

Like other's have mentioned what were you measuring that's 86db? White noise, 1khz tone, whatever is playing on TV? The 1khz tone will be the loudest. I guess the easiest way to find out is to barrow a friend's speakers to see if something is blantantly wrong. Best of luck.

That's maybe for commercial speakers? This is why enthusiasts don't get commercial speakers lol. Funny you said 92 db sensitivity is very high and to me I'm thinking "Gosh... that's so low!" I've been looking at high efficiency designs though and for me, I think 94dB was the lowest sensitivity I'd go.
-------------------------------------------------------

I'm surprised Anubis didn't recommend this first, but I'd get new speakers. I'd NOT get commercial speakers if volume is what you're going for.
First off, if you were spending in the range of the speakers you got:
http://www.amazon.com/Klipsch-Reference-Flagship-Floorstanding-Speaker/dp/B00414VRH6

That's what you should have gotten. But since it's in the past, I would sell your speakers now.
I'd pick up this:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/elusive-1099.html
And build myself.
Sensitivity on those is 99dB.
If you want to go bigger I'd get:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/maximus-18.html
But they aren't out yet.
If you wanted to keep the design of the Deftech and you have woodworking experience and you want to cheap out I'd get:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/cinema-8/cinema-8-kit.html
and I'd add a custom compartment at the bottom to house a 10 inch subwoofer.
I wouldn't go with that design though. 10 inch subwoofer is too small to me, but that's me personally.

Those are the options I'd pick though. I would NEVER go with a speaker with such low sensitivity if playing loud is my goal knowing the little speaker building knowledge I've gained over the last couple of years.

Anyway, those are my recommendations.
Don't bother with separates either. You'll gain 3dB (just estimate off an SPL calculator based on the stats of your speakers), and that's just tiny. Building any of the speakers I listed, with your current system would net you 10 dB. Ya, it's more expensive, but if you go over and read on AVSForum.com in the DIY section, people have owned all types of expensive designs there. You just can't beat building your own speaker, especially if you're buying those commercial type designs.

You can also go to JTRSpeakers to get the level of quality speakers I mentioned in the DIY section of this post. However, you're spending a LOT of cash there but some of those are custom speaker parts I believe (I can't remember I do remember seeing their speaker builder post on AVS if I'm not mistaken. Could have been Seaton though).

The Noesis 212HT is the most covetted design if I'm not mistaken due to it's very very high sensitivity. But at $2299 a piece.... You could get most of the performance of that speaker in the 1099 design I listed. You can find the listening impressions of these speakers on avsforum. I doubt the DefTech's you have would be anywhere close to the Noesis212HT or the 1099 design though.

So to sum up.
Klipsch Reference Series - For Cheaper Pre Built
DIYsoundgroup Speakers - For Best Price/Performance Ratio Humanly Possible and most work already done for you
JTRSpeakers - For high quality completed speakers.

That's my recommendation, but I'm assuming you want to get LOUD and don't every want to have to worry about not having enough volume. If I had your speakers, I wouldn't even use them. Sensitivity is a joke they wouldn't get remotely loud enough for me. But that's why they're commercial home theater speakers for the typical user who doesn't listen that loud.
 

slashbinslashbash

Golden Member
Feb 29, 2004
1,945
8
81
A frickin' Android app?! Come on...... I really REALLY wouldn't trust what that app is telling you. Find a real sound level meter and report again.

That being said, your setup still might not be loud enough for your wants, but 86dB seems low. But again there is a lot going on there. Adding a good sub like an SVS should push your bass to 100dB+. Feed the LFE to the external sub and normal L/R outputs to the built-in subs.

Turn your receiver to pure Stereo output, Audyssey off, no LFE (so should be no output from the subs). Try it again.... your highs/mids should easily hit the 90's if not the 100's. 92dB sensitivity @ 1W @ 1m = ~106dB @ 125W @ 3m with 2 speakers.

I mean, really, in 20-some years of owning various receivers and speakers, I don't think I've ever owned a set that wouldn't result in uncomfortably loud output (even if there was some distortion) at the distances you're talking about. As in, yelling to get the person next to you to hear. Like, easily 95db+, mostly 100dB+. I have owned a Radio Shack analog sound level meter for most of those 20-some years. (Back in the day, we had to balance surround channels by hand....)
 

gus6464

Golden Member
Nov 10, 2005
1,848
32
91
When you say you are running the receiver in stereo mode is it pure direct or just stereo? Pure direct turns off all amplification other than L and R and gives more power to the speakers. Even then you are probably not getting 125WPC as receiver power ratings are a joke. Maybe @ 10% THD.