I need economy

[Guurn]

You're willing to spend up to 16k on a new car.

You think it would take about 2k to fix up your Aztek? Let's say it actually takes 3k. Hell, 6k. If you don't drive like an asshole, that should be enough to make it last a long time.

You're getting around 23mpg combined, and you drive 37 miles a day? Let's say gas hits $4 a gallon again. You're spending $6.43 in gas a day. You upgrade to a car that gets 33mpg combined. Now you're spending $3.57 in gas a day. That's a difference of $2.86 a day. That's a savings of $1,044 a year.

You'd have to drive your newly rebuilt Aztek for a decade to make up the fuel difference. Toss in the opportunity cost of ten grand over ten years, and this really isn't about saving money. You want economy advice? Okay- don't buy a new car right now, or probably any time soon.

If you just want a nicer car, it's your money- just make sure it's really you and not the Joneses making the decision. And at least stretch for the Fit or something that's really worth such a big investment. Don't buy a inferior, less economical, less reliable car for a few k less and tell yourself you saved money. Get the top of the line and never look back.

And DEFINITELY don't buy a used car with no warranty. The transmission could blow while you're driving it off the lot. If you're going to risk a dead car, don't risk having to make payments on it as well. (Edit: I'm talking about a recent, still expensive car. Sidegrading to a more economical shitbox which you then fix up can be a great option.)

I get this advice, I really do. I'm a math guy all the way. In the real world it just doesn't work that way though. The difference in yearly repair costs will be significant for the next five years. My Aztek is at 180k. One wheel bearing has gone, it is due for a timing belt. The tranny is rough and I knew what the next two years will be like. With a much newer car those long term fixes are pushed back quite a bit. Even if one or two of them happen it is still far cheaper to run on a day by day basis.

You are getting me to move away from thinking about a hybrid though. They have the cost of a battery at 100k. That isn't small.

 

[jlee]

I get this advice, I really do. I'm a math guy all the way. In the real world it just doesn't work that way though. The difference in yearly repair costs will be significant for the next five years. My Aztek is at 180k. One wheel bearing has gone, it is due for a timing belt. The tranny is rough and I knew what the next two years will be like. With a much newer car those long term fixes are pushed back quite a bit. Even if one or two of them happen it is still far cheaper to run on a day by day basis.

You are getting me to move away from thinking about a hybrid though. They have the cost of a battery at 100k. That isn't small.

wut?

 

[Viper GTS]

Depending on the state you are in the hybrid components of an Energi are warrantied to a minimum 8 year 100k and potentially 10 year 150k.

That's by default, with no CPO/extended warranty purchase required.

This unfounded fear of battery costs is precisely why you can buy one for less than half what it retailed for two years ago. Batteries are getting cheaper:

So even if your pack does magically grenade just past the warranty period the replacement costs are likely to be substantially cheaper than they are today.

The reality though is that battery packs are lasting much longer than people initially thought they would. Yes there are outliers but as a whole there simply isn't any evidence for a 100k pack lifespan.

Viper GTS

 

[Guurn]

Wow, that is news to me. I'm very glad to see it.

 

[SketchMaster]

+1 thumbs up for Viper.

I wanted my next car to be electric, so that's great to see.

 

[tortillasoup]

I get this advice, I really do. I'm a math guy all the way. In the real world it just doesn't work that way though. The difference in yearly repair costs will be significant for the next five years. My Aztek is at 180k. One wheel bearing has gone, it is due for a timing belt. The tranny is rough and I knew what the next two years will be like. With a much newer car those long term fixes are pushed back quite a bit. Even if one or two of them happen it is still far cheaper to run on a day by day basis.

You are getting me to move away from thinking about a hybrid though. They have the cost of a battery at 100k. That isn't small.

Batteries in hybrids should last the life of the vehicle. If you buy a California emissions type car (states that have adopted California's emission regulations) then you'll get a minimum of 150K mile warranty on the battery and drivetrain.

 

[herm0016]

there are volts with over 250k miles . . . with very little to no battery capacity loss.

 

[angminas]

I get this advice, I really do. I'm a math guy all the way. In the real world it just doesn't work that way though. The difference in yearly repair costs will be significant for the next five years. My Aztek is at 180k. One wheel bearing has gone, it is due for a timing belt. The tranny is rough and I knew what the next two years will be like. With a much newer car those long term fixes are pushed back quite a bit. Even if one or two of them happen it is still far cheaper to run on a day by day basis.

You are getting me to move away from thinking about a hybrid though. They have the cost of a battery at 100k. That isn't small.

I'm not sure what's going on here. Did you miss the part where I budgeted six thousand dollars for repairs?

 

[Yuriman]

A replacement battery for Honda's older hybrids is about $1500 for a new pack, and $500 for a refurbished one. They last 10-15 years, on average.

Newer hybrids have larger batteries, but not THAT much larger, and the bigger packs last longer.

 

[Viper GTS]

I'm not sure what's going on here. Did you miss the part where I budgeted six thousand dollars for repairs?

I missed the part where you accounted for the residual value of the car you were buying vs the repairs and gas you were putting into a car that was essentially worthless at the beginning of your cost comparison.

I'd rather be spending my money on the car than gas and repairs any day, and the true delta at the end is going to be smaller than you are suggesting.

Viper GTS

 

[angminas]

I missed the part where you accounted for the residual value of the car you were buying vs the repairs and gas you were putting into a car that was essentially worthless at the beginning of your cost comparison.

I'd rather be spending my money on the car than gas and repairs any day, and the true delta at the end is going to be smaller than you are suggesting.

Viper GTS

Long story short- I budget for repairs and OP responds as if I didn't, then tells me I don't understand the real world. The difference between 16k and 19k is a stretch. He only drives 37 miles a day. These things do not scream to me "buy a new car, especially because you need better fuel economy". I didn't even get into full coverage insurance, which I expect to eat up most or all of the fuel difference.

Additionally, my budget allows room to keep a second shitbox as backup or to buy one in a hurry if necessary. If he really can afford a new car, great...but I am not yet convinced that it's in his best interest at this time.

 

[Guurn]

Ok, I'll respond.

Within the next two years it will need in no particular order. An Engine and transmission, a new rear end, probably a new radiator (the current one was full of leaves when I got it and has never worked well. This doesn't include wheel bearings. It is a matter of headaches. I could spend the money and go without the car when these things pop up (hopefully when I'm close to home?) or I could donate it and get a better car (along with higher insurance) and be more secure when I do go on road trips. The last trip was over 3k miles. These are regular trips even though it is primarily a commuter car. The real world means that I have the ability to minimize headaches. That's what a newer, hopefully better, car should do.

Insurance costs were actually my primary motivator in keeping it this long.

Incidentally I checked out the Chevy Volt last night. It has that low windshield that makes me have to bend down to see the traffic lights, no thanks. My wife really liked it though. She might get it for her next car.

 

[nerp]

Fixing a car is worth it most cases but you have a strong argument for getting new. You can't put a price on peace of mind and being able to drive anywhere, anytime, with no concern about breaking down or problems. The cost of being stuck without a car as its in the shop is not easily hammered into a spreadsheet. I know engineers struggle to think outside of the numbers, but in the real world, convenience and security has value.

 

[Jumpem]

All I need is an electric Subaru.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Where does OP actually live that ground clearance is an issue? Are you driving down dirt roads?

 

[Jumpem]

Where does OP actually live that ground clearance is an issue? Are you driving down dirt roads?

He states this in the first post: Lastly I live in the north so cars that have zero clearance wont work in the winter.

Lack of ground clearance is an issue on unplowed roads.

 

[Guurn]

I don't like it when people don't answer how things ended up so I would be remiss if I failed in that task.

After test driving a lot of cars and diligently sticking to my budget I bought a Mazda 3 i Grand Touring with 27k miles and a Skyactive 2.0. There were a few things that helped make up my mind for me.

1. I'm 6'4" and fit well in it and had no visual issues with it's design. This was certainly not true for a few cars. The Volt was the worst of the lot in that regard. The windshield was so low that I couldn't see stoplights without craning my neck.

2. Seat comfort. This was not great in many models and since many didn't have electric seats this was bad for my legs. It makes no sense and I didn't look it up to see if it is true but electric seats seem to either start lower or adjust lower, helping with comfort.

3. I needed hatchback room in the back. Most electric cars seem to use most of that area up with large battery packs. If this wasn't the case I may have preferred the Ford C-Max energy. There needs to be a new class of cars, hatchback design without hatchback storage.

4. Availability- I didn't have the budget for a new car and even though a Prius 4 would have worked well, finding one was another issue, even more so in my budget. I actually looked for a Prius at the same time and just found the Mazda first. The Honda Fit was the other final contender. If you are looking for a great high MPG car that keeps its value, that is it. It was just out of my budget in the trim I would prefer.

What I didn't get that I wanted- Ground clearance. This concerns me but in the long run having to drive through snowdrifts is a rare occurrence and on those days I'll just use my spouses car.

 

[Herr Kutz]

Versa hatchback SL

 

[Brian Stirling]

You say this will be a commuter car but it's not clear if that commute involves a lot of stop-and-go driving. If it does the hybrid is far and away the best choice. One of the killers of fuel mileage is the 200 foot movements between traffic lights that can take 5 minutes or more with the engine running the whole time. With a hybrid the engine shuts off at the light and only fires up between the lights then shuts off again. If the hybrid had bigger batteries it wouldn't even have to start between lights.


Brian

 

[tortillasoup]

You say this will be a commuter car but it's not clear if that commute involves a lot of stop-and-go driving. If it does the hybrid is far and away the best choice. One of the killers of fuel mileage is the 200 foot movements between traffic lights that can take 5 minutes or more with the engine running the whole time. With a hybrid the engine shuts off at the light and only fires up between the lights then shuts off again. If the hybrid had bigger batteries it wouldn't even have to start between lights.


Brian

I don't know what hybrid you're driving but unless you're blasting the A/C at full power, I'd imagine the engine should be able to stay off for a lot longer than 5 minutes. Then again, I don't typically drive with the A/C that much anyway.

 

[jlee]

I don't know what hybrid you're driving but unless you're blasting the A/C at full power, I'd imagine the engine should be able to stay off for a lot longer than 5 minutes. Then again, I don't typically drive with the A/C that much anyway.

He's saying that the cost savings come into play because you aren't sitting for 5 minutes with an engine idling in a normal car. Not all hybrids can drive solely on battery.

 

[Guurn]

Yeah, I'm seeing that drawback with the gas engine. I wondered why they had built the shutoff engine thing into my buddies BMW. It annoys the heck out of him but probably saves a lot of money in the long run. I do loads of stop and go with loads of highway miles in between, almost no steady 30 mph driving.

I checked out the Versa. It got eliminated because the seats hurt my wife's back. I didn't mention it earlier because that won't be an issue for the vast majority of people. I guess you could say that about tall people issues as well but I did include them.

 

[skyking]

It's a hard target to hit, but you and your wife's comfort is really not worth compromising for. Hope you enjoy the new ride, I have looked at them and they are nice.

 

[dtgoodwin]

Correct answer is Prius.

I own a 2008 Prius and for the most part, love it. If you just get in and drive, fuel economy is mid-40's. It is particularly good with better driving habits. However, if snow is a concern, do NOT buy it as your only vehicle. It has extremely aggressive traction control and will not allow the tires to spin. Even with snow tires, you will still get stuck in situations where you need a least a little tire spin. Otherwise, I'd highly recommend a second generation. They were very overbuilt and regularly get to 250K miles without major issues.

 

[Brian Stirling]

I don't know what hybrid you're driving but unless you're blasting the A/C at full power, I'd imagine the engine should be able to stay off for a lot longer than 5 minutes. Then again, I don't typically drive with the A/C that much anyway.

WOW, not sure how you missed what I actually said but...

I've not driven all the hybrids out there but I have driven a few and my experience is that at a traffic light the engine shuts off -- and that's a good thing for mileage. In stop and go driving where you stop and a light, then move forward 200 feet to the next light it would be good if the hybrid had a battery that would allow the car to advance to the next light without starting the engine, but with the Prius I've driven the engine tends to cut back in within about 50 feet or so. But, again, when you get to the next light the engine shuts off again.

If I were making cars I'd design the hybrid with a larger battery and a smaller engine with fewer cylinders. I do away with the mechanical drive train a go straight to an electric motor at each wheel for true, TRUE 4WD. I'd work to make brake energy reclamation more effective. In a commuter situation you should be able to go 30 minutes or more on battery alone and should be rechargeable from home. In a stop and go situation as above the engine would likely be off anyway, but at a stop light the engine would be off and would not start when advancing to the next light.

But, even with current hybrid technology the advantage in stop and go driving is huge. My current car, a 2012 Ford Focus with 2.0L DGI engine gets great mileage and my net average after 56K miles is a shade less than 39mpg. I've achieved almost 50mpg for an entire tank of over 600 miles. But, the mileage in stop and go driving as pretty bad, like as low as 20mpg bad at its worst. There's a stretch of suburban road that I can get over 40mpg when the traffic is light and I hit the lights favorably, but when the traffic is heavy and the lights don't go my way it can drop to near 20mpg. This is where hybrids kick ass...


Brian