i need a hub/switch that can operate at high temps

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
i am networking a guys house and he wants the switch it the attic. here in texas, the attic gets to be extremely hot. he wants it up there (dont ask me why), but we are having trouble finding a switch that can operate at temps of 130+ (which isnt unusual in july/august in the attic).


does anyone know of anything that fits those specs?

thanks
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: xSauronx
how about spending an extra 10 bucks on a small fan to aim at the switch?

blowing hot air faster doesnt help something get cooler, it just moves around more hot air at a faster pace. if you are blowing air that is less than ambient, then it will help, but that is not a possibility in this situation.
 

buleyb

Golden Member
Aug 12, 2002
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Honestly, I have no idea where he could find such a product (although I'm sure they exist). I suggest you change the layout to avoid this. If you go through this much hassle this time, what about in a few years when it needs to be upgraded or if it craps out on you...

really, design the layout around the equipment you have or can easily get. If he has some really good argument for it being in the attic, bring it here :)
 

LiLxJohnny

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2000
1,877
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What about running a duct from the central air (or any air conditioner) to the switch that will be placed in the attic? Since it does run that hot in TX, there's gotta be air conditioning right?
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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The big boys (Cisco, Extreme, Foundry) build their switches to survive high temperatures - what do you think a data center's like when the AC fails? You'll have to spend some real money, though.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Maybe read the operating temperatures for switches? They're all solid state so you would think they'd be pretty rugged.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: buleyb
Honestly, I have no idea where he could find such a product (although I'm sure they exist). I suggest you change the layout to avoid this. If you go through this much hassle this time, what about in a few years when it needs to be upgraded or if it craps out on you...

really, design the layout around the equipment you have or can easily get. If he has some really good argument for it being in the attic, bring it here :)

ill bring his arguement here even though it isnt really good :)....

"i dont want lots of wires around the wall..." and that, my friends, is his best arguement

Originally posted by: spidey07
Maybe read the operating temperatures for switches? They're all solid state so you would think they'd be pretty rugged.

most we have looked at say the max is 104 F




you guys are awesome lol..you think just like i do, but unfortunately for us, this guy doesnt...

i have thought about every possible design to put something in the wall and keep it at a decent temp, but nothing seems to be good enough for this guy. i want to do it because i am charging him a LOT :beer: more than usual, but it is just annoying...

if you all run across any products that say they are rated at high temps, please let me know



btw, the A/C vent idea is nice, but im sure he wont go for that
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
i found this


what do you guys think lol..jk its in europe




anyways, i cant find anything that will operate at temperatues of 130+ within a reasonable price range (as in less than 60 dollars)


hmm...
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
2,296
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0
MrDudeMan, so what you're saying is, you want an industrial-grade piece of equipment, but you're not willing to pay more than a SOHO grade price for it? Sounds to me like you need to seriously re-think your expectations.

Get a cheap SOHO switch that uses no fans, and expect to replace it a few times. $60 can buy a small pile of $10 4-port SOHO switches.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: cmetz
MrDudeMan, so what you're saying is, you want an industrial-grade piece of equipment, but you're not willing to pay more than a SOHO grade price for it? Sounds to me like you need to seriously re-think your expectations.

Get a cheap SOHO switch that uses no fans, and expect to replace it a few times. $60 can buy a small pile of $10 4-port SOHO switches.

no, actually thats not what im saying, so get your annoying attitude out of my thread if you cant be helpful.

my expectations are to tell this guy i can find what hes looking for. i came here to see if anyone could find something that would work, not tell me i am stupid and i need to rethink my approach to FINDING WHAT SOMEONE ASKED FOR.

sorry if i have ruined your day by asking a question.
 

foshizzle

Member
Aug 16, 2003
95
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0
So there is absolutely no place that you can put the switch besides the attic? Maybe one thing you could do is to cut a hole in the ceiling, stick a vent in to cover the hole, put a switch on top of the vent, put a box over the switch/vent, then put some insulation over the whole thing, that should keep the switch at a decent temp. You should also stick some fans in there to suck air in from the room. There has to be some closet or something where he would let you do this right?

Remeber, don't be afraid to tell him that what he wants can't be done, unless he wants to spend a buttload of money.

cmetz, he could get a bunch of switches, but if their operating temp is 104 max, then, he'd probably be replacing them a few times a day in the summer. Here in georgia(where it's cooler than texas) 130 degrees in the attic is probably a low end estimate for the temp, it gets hotter than that at around 4-5 o'clock, especialy if the roof is facing the rising or setting sun.
 

groovin

Senior member
Jul 24, 2001
857
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0
mrdudeman....

i think cmetz is just trying to be helpful. he knows his networking and can be a great help do you.

i know... get one of these http://www.minicooler.com/ , drill some holes for cables, and put the switch inside... seal all the holes with some kinda rubber (put the switch inside a ziplock back and seal it tight around the cables so no frost gets inside) and youre set!

i know... just an idea. =)
 

cleverhandle

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2001
3,566
3
81
Yeah, chill out MrDudeMan. cmetz is first-rate in this forum when it comes to networking hardware. I understand that a client asked you for equipment to a certain spec, but that only goes so far. Presumably, he doesn't want to be replacing switches on a near daily basis. And I doubt he wants some hack job of a cooling system that will probably be unreliable anyway. Unless he wants to shell out serious cash for the kind of hardware designed for use in a factory, what he's asking is not possible. You can tell him that straight up now, or kludge something else together and be stuck supporting it.
 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
i understand i sound pumped up and mad, but who is he to tell me im stupid and need to rethink my approach for essentially trying to please a customer? did i ever ask for how he personally felt about my project? no, i didnt, and i didnt think this was a thread where personal opinion was necessary.


anyways...

yeah cooling systems wouldnt work because he simply wouldnt go for it and i dont want to maintain it.

no, there is absolutely no where else it can go, partly because of the layout of the house, but mostly because what he wants.


the other problem that dawned on me during the day is how to get power to the switch, but that is another issue. right now i need to get a networking device in a very hot place and make sure it always works. i will tell him that i think it is not a good idea and having it in an air conditioned room would be the best route.



thanks everyone, even cmetz, and ill let you know what happens.
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
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MrDudeMan, please accept my apologies if you took offense at my note. It was worded a bit harshly, though I do not believe it was nearly as offensive as you interpreted it. That said, I believe that you have seriously overreacted. In particular, I would like to point out that I never used the word "stupid" - that is your word that you are putting in my mouth. Even when my private reaction would be to flame someone to a crisp, I normally try very hard to keep ad hominem attacks and such out of public forums because such behavior is to nobody's benefit.

I did however tell you that you needed to rethink your expectations, and that comment I stand by. It happens sometimes that you're given a problem that's not solvable. If this is your customer, then in an odd way, that makes things easier. Tell him: "no bid." It's as easy as that. Really. If your customer asks you to solve a problem within a cost constraint that can't be met, just tell him, sorry, you can't do that. If you try to solve a problem that can't be solved with the constraints you're given, knowing that you can't really solve it, you're going to do at best a poor job, and that's going to reflect poorly on you. There's no winning for you in that. It's been my experience that most customers will respect you a lot more for saying you can't do a good job within the constraints you're being given and explain to them why than to try to do a bad job - and those customers who get upset at such a response are the unreasonable ones you don't want to deal with anyway.

If you really want to do a poor job, I told you how - just get something expendable and plan on replacing it. It's obvious to everyone that this is a bad solution, but if you don't have any real other option than solving the problem badly and you insist on moving forward, then there's one simple bad solution. It might not be all that bad, oddly enough... a cheap SOHO switch is mostly a one-chip piece of equipment these days, and while not rated to handle extreme temperatures, the unit itself just might last through conditions way outside spec (if it's mostly one big chip, there's not all that much to fail). The power brick is likely to die first. Now, if you'll recall for a moment your comment about needing to get power up to this attic - if you can find a SOHO switch that can use power over Ethernet (try the 3Com NetJack) units, you could use that to move the power brick into the temperature controlled part of the house. (umm, while you're at it... see if the NJ can just solve the customer's problem...)

Equipment that is ruggedized for reasonably extreme temperatures is going to be data center (e.g., NEBS) or military grade. Both of those terms raise the cost a lot more than $60 just being printed on the label (NEBS especially!). Your customer's expectations for a solution rated to tolerate extreme temperatures can be satisfied, but it's going to require a serious cost premium. It's not a mass-market SOHO product, it's a specialty market product, and it's going to be priced accordingly. $60 is not even close to a realistic cost expectation for the requirement here. The products I can think of off the top of my head that I truly believe could handle this kind of temperature will cost more than $60 just for shipping.
 

jackwhitter

Golden Member
Dec 15, 2000
1,048
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the only other way, as mentioned before, is to add a device to put active cooling on the module... ie, peltier or a/c unit. heat kills...
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: MrDudeMan
i am networking a guys house and he wants the switch it the attic. here in texas, the attic gets to be extremely hot. he wants it up there (dont ask me why), but we are having trouble finding a switch that can operate at temps of 130+ (which isnt unusual in july/august in the attic).


does anyone know of anything that fits those specs?

thanks

I run my D-Link DSS-5+ in the attic, it sees 150 F during the summer, no problems.

I also ran 4 Computers there too, 2 AMD and 2 Intel. No extra fans or anything, all ran fine.


 

MrDudeMan

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
15,069
94
91
Originally posted by: gunrunnerjohn
One has to wonder why you had all your computers in the attic... :)

lol i agree





ok cmetz, i understand all of what you said, and i knew it was a ridiculous project, but i was just wondering if it was going to be feasible for me to do this, and obviously its not. i appreciate the effort of everyone trying to help, but i think im going to just tell this guy straight up what the problem is with his expectations.
 

cmetz

Platinum Member
Nov 13, 2001
2,296
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MrDudeMan, talk with your customer about the high-level problem he's trying to solve and see if there's a fundamentally different approach that meets his requirements. As I mentioned before, the 3Com NetJacks might be interesting.
 

gunrunnerjohn

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2002
1,360
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I'm not sure why you couldn't so something silly like build a small insulated box and a couple of small openings in the ceiling somewhere. Put in a 4" fan to move some air, it would be plenty cool.

I have to say, I think this customer is a candidate for a rubber room if he's set on this. :D