I mght have been wrong about the GOP

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: UberNeuman

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Sure enough the Republicanibals have sent the snow blowers to clear Snowe.

Drift over here to see

Y'know, I've read that a story a few times and I can't decide if that's for real or satire...

Repug reality is difficult to differentiate from satirically hypothesized insanity.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So precisely what effects will this bill have, and how will it work? What, precisely, provisions are there to maintain the quality of health care besides saying you'll have it. What, precisely, will this provide? What will the specific consequences be and besides faith, how do you know?

In other words does anyone here KNOW what they are supporting in other than oblique terms?

I'm going to guess that no one here can answer those questions. As far as I can tell, the bill itself isn't nearly as important as the hate.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: Greenman

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider
So precisely what effects will this bill have, and how will it work? What, precisely, provisions are there to maintain the quality of health care besides saying you'll have it. What, precisely, will this provide? What will the specific consequences be and besides faith, how do you know?

In other words does anyone here KNOW what they are supporting in other than oblique terms?

I'm going to guess that no one here can answer those questions. As far as I can tell, the bill itself isn't nearly as important as the hate.

That's the problem. There is no bill coming out of senate committee that the floor voted on. I don't really know. Nobody can answer the questions because what came out of committee AFAIK isn't published. Is it a bill committee voted on? What the fuck did they vote on or did they just get the points out of committee?

I don't fucking know!!! Transparency my ass. I don't put too much blame of this shit on Obama - this crap is purely on the reps and senators. If they vote on the floor on legislation they have not read then fuck them all.

Just remember to write your reps and Senators on how to stop this.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: OCguy
It actually makes me feel all warm inside that the true "Left" in the US is nothing but a fringe (Hillary, Kucinich, etc).

actually that should worry you. Our "fringe" is secretary of state and us senator the gop's fringe are militias, am talk radio guys and fox news pundits.

So we should be more worried about "news" personalities than people in charge of running our government is what you're saying.... right... You didn't really think that one through did you buddy? yeah those people in power who are so far off the deep end they don't even know what's good for themselves are WAY less of a problem than the people who sit on their ass and talk about the "news."

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: OCguy
It actually makes me feel all warm inside that the true "Left" in the US is nothing but a fringe (Hillary, Kucinich, etc).

actually that should worry you. Our "fringe" is secretary of state and us senator the gop's fringe are militias, am talk radio guys and fox news pundits.

So we should be more worried about "news" personalities than people in charge of running our government is what you're saying.... right... You didn't really think that one through did you buddy? yeah those people in power who are so far off the deep end they don't even know what's good for themselves are WAY less of a problem than the people who sit on their ass and talk about the "news."

What I meant to say was your fringe is loooooony and our "fringe" isnt. Unless you think Hillary is ready to lead a revolution come the 15th of october?

I know you think the country has been taken from you and your right it has. We gave you loons 8 years to do some horrible things. Your group has shown inability to move this country in the right direction. Sorry. You can't have your toys back until you become enlightened. If that means we have to put you in front of a death panel then so be it. You can tell them how your taxes were raised and your childrens minds were brain washed right before they abort your wifes child and kill you with marijuana.

 

[bfdd]

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: bfdd

Originally posted by: JSt0rm01

Originally posted by: OCguy
It actually makes me feel all warm inside that the true "Left" in the US is nothing but a fringe (Hillary, Kucinich, etc).

actually that should worry you. Our "fringe" is secretary of state and us senator the gop's fringe are militias, am talk radio guys and fox news pundits.

So we should be more worried about "news" personalities than people in charge of running our government is what you're saying.... right... You didn't really think that one through did you buddy? yeah those people in power who are so far off the deep end they don't even know what's good for themselves are WAY less of a problem than the people who sit on their ass and talk about the "news."

What I meant to say was your fringe is loooooony and our "fringe" isnt. Unless you think Hillary is ready to lead a revolution come the 15th of october?

I know you think the country has been taken from you and your right it has. We gave you loons 8 years to do some horrible things. Your group has shown inability to move this country in the right direction. Sorry. You can't have your toys back until you become enlightened. If that means we have to put you in front of a death panel then so be it. You can tell them how your taxes were raised and your childrens minds were brain washed right before they abort your wifes child and kill you with marijuana.

My fringe? You haven't listed anyone from my fringe

Again, just because I'm pointing out the flaws in your argument doesn't mean I'm on the opposite side of the spectrum of your beliefs, it just means I think you're an idiot for making a stupid argument.

After reading it again, I would like to point a couple more things out. Why does someone who is against abortion have to be against marijuana or against raising taxes? or vice versa? I'm for lower taxes, I'm pro choice, and I'm against marijuana prohibition. Did your mind just get blown?

 

[JSt0rm]

Originally posted by: bfdd

After reading it again, I would like to point a couple more things out. Why does someone who is against abortion have to be against marijuana or against raising taxes? or vice versa? I'm for lower taxes, I'm pro choice, and I'm against marijuana prohibition. Did your mind just get blown?

I'm glad you read it more the once I was using broad strokes to make a point about the fringe of the gop. I don't know you from adam so my statement was more directed at "the gop"

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Thump553
To the question posed originally, I say that inevitable reaction to Snow's committee vote proves that you are NOT wrong about the GOP. While on rare occassion a very tiny minority may stray, it is pretty clear that the overwhleming mandate of national GOP politicians is to obstruct and oppose any and all actions proposed by this administration. I can see where one party disagrees totally with the other party on a particular subject-say taxes, or a particular war, but to have essentially ALL members vote NO on everything clearly shows playing partisan politics is far more important to the GOP than attempting to run this country. Where are the alternative plans? Amendments from the GOP?

No, I don't think you are wrong about the GOP at all.

That is not to say the Bacchas bill is any great or drastic reform, far from it. It's a watered down mess already, and will acheive very little actual reform.

So of course they vote no on it, they are harmful laws.

Dude you kill me...maybe harmful to the healthcare industries bottom line.

This will not impact profit margins on health insurance or care providers. It will only raise your premiums and care costs.

Exactly. The bill aims to reduce HC expenses/profits, so the Ins Co's promise to just raise the rates by 110% rather than ~70% in ten years to make up the difference and the American people can just go fuck themselves and die.

=>Public Option. End the HC cartel's monopoly.

 

[Bitek]

The biggest deal of this is that it got the debate out of the fucking Finance Committee where its been rotting for 3 mos. They cobbled whatever plan together than does some major stuff & some dumb stuff so it can receive the Blessing of the Almighty CBO and come in under budget.

Its just a framework and its not that important to get too hung up on the details as it needs to go to the floor and get reconciled with all the other bills.
Freak out/ jizz in pants over what gets put into that bill. This is just a draft and doesn't count for a whole lot. Thanks Bacchus for your fine fucking work.

 

[LTC8K6]

This is nothing but a big old tax bill, plain and simple.

http://online.wsj.com/article/...9934348.html#printMode

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Bitek
The biggest deal of this is that it got the debate out of the fucking Finance Committee where its been rotting for 3 mos. They cobbled whatever plan together than does some major stuff & some dumb stuff so it can receive the Blessing of the Almighty CBO and come in under budget.

Its just a framework and its not that important to get too hung up on the details as it needs to go to the floor and get reconciled with all the other bills.
Freak out/ jizz in pants over what gets put into that bill. This is just a draft and doesn't count for a whole lot. Thanks Bacchus for your fine fucking work.

This person knows what they are talking about!
:thumbsup:

 

[LTC8K6]

Snowe doesn't care one way or the other. Her family has free Cadillac BCBS.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: ElFenix
14-9 passed

It would be awesome to see snow vote yes in committee and the give the libtards a big FUCK YOU! Filibuster time! Come time to vote once all the pubic has seen what's contained in any reconciliation. Maybe she's doing this to expose the dems?

I think she is voting this way because she has a conscious.

conscience ?

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Ausm
Looks like Senator Snowe actually gives a shit about Americans. I bet she will be crucified by the GOP and the rightwing blowhards. I think Baucas's bill needs alot of work but at least the healthcare legislation will move to the floor now. Looks like President Obama is one step closer to achieving the once thought unachievable...suck on that righties

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...on-senat_n_318745.html

Here's what she may lose:

Sens: Snowe's healthcare vote puts her top Commerce perch at risk - Sen. Olympia Snowe (Maine) is risking a shot at becoming the top Republican on an influential Senate committee by backing Democratic healthcare legislation, according to senators on the panel.

A Senate Democrat on the Commerce, Science and Transportation Committee said Republicans on the panel are threatening to vote against Snowe, who is in line for the senior GOP post that is about to come open.

?Wake up,? the Democrat told a reporter last week when questioned if the Republicans would retaliate against Snowe for crossing party lines.

 

[LTC8K6]

This bill is just dumb, imo. It's a bad idea all around. I hope somehow common sense finally takes hold and this nonsense is defeated. The idea that something/anything needs to be passed is dangerous.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/a...ves/2009/10/024696.php

http://townhall.com/columnists...10/14/obamacare_means_$1,700_more_in_insurance_premiums_for_a_typical_family

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
This bill is just dumb, imo. It's a bad idea all around. I hope somehow common sense finally takes hold and this nonsense is defeated. The idea that something/anything needs to be passed is dangerous.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/a...ves/2009/10/024696.php

http://townhall.com/columnists...10/14/obamacare_means_$1,700_more_in_insurance_premiums_for_a_typical_family

Linking up Clown Hall makes you look dumb.


I find it very interesting that the newly fiscally conservative GOP (who didn't pay for 2 major wars, 2 huge tax cuts, the Big Pharma Give-A-Way and LNCB) gets bitchy & whiny when the adults actually try to pay for something and reduce its impact on the deficit (created by the bitchy & whiny 'fiscally conservative' GOP in the first place).

 

[LTC8K6]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: LTC8K6
This bill is just dumb, imo. It's a bad idea all around. I hope somehow common sense finally takes hold and this nonsense is defeated. The idea that something/anything needs to be passed is dangerous.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/a...ves/2009/10/024696.php

http://townhall.com/columnists...10/14/obamacare_means_$1,700_more_in_insurance_premiums_for_a_typical_family

Linking up Clown Hall makes you look dumb.


I find it very interesting that the newly fiscally conservative GOP (who didn't pay for 2 major wars, 2 huge tax cuts, the Big Pharma Give-A-Way and LNCB) gets bitchy & whiny when the adults actually try to pay for something and reduce its impact on the deficit (created by the bitchy & whiny 'fiscally conservative' GOP in the first place).

Fine, but what about the actual facts of the Baucus plan?

I don't mind looking dumb if I can eventually learn the truth of the matter.

I've looked dumb before. It didn't hurt much.

 

[Thump553]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: Thump553
To the question posed originally, I say that inevitable reaction to Snow's committee vote proves that you are NOT wrong about the GOP. While on rare occassion a very tiny minority may stray, it is pretty clear that the overwhleming mandate of national GOP politicians is to obstruct and oppose any and all actions proposed by this administration. I can see where one party disagrees totally with the other party on a particular subject-say taxes, or a particular war, but to have essentially ALL members vote NO on everything clearly shows playing partisan politics is far more important to the GOP than attempting to run this country. Where are the alternative plans? Amendments from the GOP?

No, I don't think you are wrong about the GOP at all.

That is not to say the Bacchas bill is any great or drastic reform, far from it. It's a watered down mess already, and will acheive very little actual reform.

The alternative plans/amendments from the GOP are constantly brought up in committee like requiring the bill to be available for 72 hours before a vote. I don't think you've been following congress for this term. It isn't that they just vote no on committee, it's that common sense checks and balances to very wide spread harmful legislation are not included in any of the bills congress is passing. So of course they vote no on it, they are harmful laws.

It would be extremely naive of anyone to suggest such GOP moves are anything but delaying tactics and totally devoid of any substance relating to medical expense reform. I'd love to see something real come out of the GOP-remember their pathetic 16 page alternative to the stimulus plan earlier this year-all hot air and platitudes. So far all they done is acted like spoiled children, whining and threatening to hold their breath if they don't get 100% their way.

 

[Budmantom]

"I mght have been wrong about the GOP"

You and the rest of the leftist on this forum are wrong on everything else so this is no surprise.

 

[Jadow]

The part that's stupid is that the fine for not having insurance is tiny, (less than the cost of buying insurance). People can just pay the fine, then wait till they get sick and THEN sign up for insurance, and since pre-existing conditions are no longer applied, people can totally game the system.

This "framework" will completely tie the hands of the insurance companies and run them out of business in short order so that government can step in with their fully loaded plan.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jadow
The part that's stupid is that the fine for not having insurance is tiny, (less than the cost of buying insurance). People can just pay the fine, then wait till they get sick and THEN sign up for insurance, and since pre-existing conditions are no longer applied, people can totally game the system.

This "framework" will completely tie the hands of the insurance companies and run them out of business in short order so that government can step in with their fully loaded plan.

And that's bad how?

 

[Jadow]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jadow
The part that's stupid is that the fine for not having insurance is tiny, (less than the cost of buying insurance). People can just pay the fine, then wait till they get sick and THEN sign up for insurance, and since pre-existing conditions are no longer applied, people can totally game the system.

This "framework" will completely tie the hands of the insurance companies and run them out of business in short order so that government can step in with their fully loaded plan.

And that's bad how?

Stolen from BalanacedPolitics.com, they ariculated it better than I can:

There isn't a single government agency or division that runs efficiently; do we really want an organization that developed the U.S. Tax Code handling something as complex as health care?

"Free" health care isn't really free since we must pay for it with taxes; expenses for health care would have to be paid for with higher taxes or spending cuts in other areas such as defense, education, etc.

Profit motives, competition, and individual ingenuity have always led to greater cost control and effectiveness.

Government-controlled health care would lead to a decrease in patient flexibility.

Patients aren't likely to curb their drug costs and doctor visits if health care is free; thus, total costs will be several times what they are now.

Just because Americans are uninsured doesn't mean they can't receive health care; nonprofits and government-run hospitals provide services to those who don't have insurance, and it is illegal to refuse emergency medical service because of a lack of insurance.

Government-mandated procedures will likely reduce doctor flexibility and lead to poor patient care.

Healthy people who take care of themselves will have to pay for the burden of those who smoke, are obese, etc.

A long, painful transition will have to take place involving lost insurance industry jobs, business closures, and new patient record creation.

Loss of private practice options and possible reduced pay may dissuade many would-be doctors from pursuing the profession.

Malpractice lawsuit costs, which are already sky-high, could further explode since universal care may expose the government to legal liability, and the possibility to sue someone with deep pockets usually invites more lawsuits.

Government is more likely to pass additional restrictions or increase taxes on smoking, fast food, etc., leading to a further loss of personal freedoms.

Patient confidentiality is likely to be compromised since centralized health information will likely be maintained by the government.

Health care equipment, drugs, and services may end up being rationed by the government. In other words, politics, lifestyle of patients, and philosophical differences of those in power, could determine who gets what.

Patients may be subjected to extremely long waits for treatment.

Like social security, any government benefit eventually is taken as a "right" by the public, meaning that it's politically near impossible to remove or curtail it later on when costs get out of control.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: Budmantom
"I mght have been wrong about the GOP"

You and the rest of the leftist on this forum are wrong on everything else so this is no surprise.

If you guys on the right have all the answers then why is your party shrinking into nonexistence?

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: Budmantom
"I mght have been wrong about the GOP"

You and the rest of the leftist on this forum are wrong on everything else so this is no surprise.

If you guys on the right have all the answers then why is your party shrinking into nonexistence?

Because the left buys votes by giving out handouts. It is very east to spend someone elses money.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ausm
I might have been wrong about the GOP

No you were right