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I love APT-GET ...

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Originally posted by: Nothinman
And if you ever mention apt-rpm to redhat dorks they talk about it like it's some bastard child of debian and you shouldn't use it. Just more evidence to me that redhat is lame-o.

I've seen similar reactions from Gentoo or *BSD dorks that think compiling everything from ports(age) is the best thing since DSL, just more evidence to me that Gentoo and *Bsd are lame-o =)

Gentoo I agree on 😎

BSD's AFAIK all have binary in addition to source packages/ports, at least NetBSD does. Compiling has some benefits, but some amazing speed increase is not normally one of them, but I don't think BSD people prefer source because of speed anyways. Gentoo, I won't get started on 😉

Also the fact that snmpd from ports on OpenBSD never worked for me, that's frustrating.
Eh, it happens. My logitech mouse worked great on NetBSD but I had tons of trouble with it on debian, I'm just using my corded mouse now :disgust:
 
Eh, it happens. My logitech mouse worked great on NetBSD but I had tons of trouble with it on debian, I'm just using my corded mouse now

I could understand a mouse, it's a piece of hardware that needs a driver. But snmpd? All it has to do is gather some info from the OS and hand it to authorized clients.

And now with OpenBSD 3.3 there were some big IOMMU changes that broke the qe driver which I just happen to need and of course noone decided to mention it in the 3.3 errata page even though the maintainer knows about it.
 
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Yeah, I have mentioned this here other times, but I always wondered why redhat doesn't just use debian as a base a la [ all the other distros that do that ] 😉. Would make things alot less of a PITA for people like me 🙂

Why does red hat even have to exist seperately at all? How 'bout this, red hat could be converted into a set off add-ons for debian.... Ahhh yes, I can see it know, a set of packages for bluecurve, annoying wizards, and one to convert deb files into buggy rpms. The ultimate solution to everyone's red hat problem! Bwahahahahaha 😛
 
It's funny how people think the only benefit of Gentoo is compiling the apps.
To me, that doesn't matter much really, what does matter above all, is the amazing speed with which the Portage tree is updated, unlike Debian's trees.

Does testing or unstable have KDE3 yet by the way?
XF 4.3?

Then of course there are many other nice things, USE vars is nice for example.

Oh well, ranting aside, I'd love it if RedHat had anything even remotely as good as APT(see, Im a Gentoo user, and I still like APT, as well as Ports), but without official support from RedHat, it wouldn't be of much use, since I use Gentoo on my workstation, and OpenBSD on my servers/firewall, my RH work is with our servers at work, and only vendor supported stuff goes in there, unless we really really have to make an exception.
 
Does testing or unstable have KDE3 yet by the way?

Yes.


Not sure, havn't really checked the version of X I'm running lately =). Most of the reasons X isn't updated as quickly is because of the huge mass of patches the Debian X Team has to apply to get X to run well on all the architectures it supports. Maybe if XFree86 development opens up a bit so those patches can make it upstream things will move quicker.

But I can't really think of anything in XF 4.3 that I really need anyway.
 
Nothinman, I don't want to pay for VMWare (free software and all 😉).

Besides, I kind of like having 4 or 5 different installs; our servers are RedHat because they are Dells and RedHat will support them if need be (something we couldn't have done with Debian), so when I test something for work, I boot into RedHat. I've been using Vector SOHO (just an experiment) and Debian as my workstation OSes.

I personally like the idea of apt-rpm, and since apt itself IS package independent I don't see why (with a hell of a lot of work) it couldn't be almost as good as the true apt-get. It's obviously not there yet, but I appreciate the efforts of the developers.

 
4.3 is not in debian yet, but you can get it from an unofficial source, find one at apt-get.org. IMO, running sarge is perfect. I have nice reliability, yet if I want some new version of an app I can always install it from unstable or find an unofficial repository at apt-get.org.
 
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
4.3 is not in debian yet, but you can get it from an unofficial source, find one at apt-get.org. IMO, running sarge is perfect. I have nice reliability, yet if I want some new version of an app I can always install it from unstable or find an unofficial repository at apt-get.org.

Well, if you have apt-listbugs installed, then unstable is just as problem free as testing and stable, but with far more packages available with little or no fuss 🙂

I wonder why it took so long for a program like listbugs to be added to debian. If it would have been available about a month or two ago, then it would have saves me from discovering the joy that is breaking a debian install 😛
 
Well, that's kinda what got to me after a while.

I just love playing with the latest and greatest, and Debian just isn't the best distro for that IMO.
Installing stuff from various unofficial repositories screws stuff up far more than running unstable ever has in my experience.

On the other hand, Gentoo is perfect for this, since it is very bleeding edge, and that in turn, is much thanks to Portage and the ease of writing ebuilds.
If Gentoo developers had to compile and package programs like Debian developers have to, Gentoo would pretty much be Debian.

Kinda OT, I know, Im just sick of seeing people dissing Gentoo simply cause it's source based, when there are many other things to love about it 🙂
 
Nothinman, I don't want to pay for VMWare (free software and all

There are free ones, Bochs is one I think. I personally think VMWare is worth the money though, it's a great product even if it just saves me from having to reboot.

I personally like the idea of apt-rpm, and since apt itself IS package independent I don't see why (with a hell of a lot of work) it couldn't be almost as good as the true apt-get. It's obviously not there yet, but I appreciate the efforts of the developers.

apt4rpm itself is fine, the problem is the repositories. If someone ever starts a repository even half the size of Debian currently, they'll go nuts without all the maintenance guidelines like Debian has in place. Also it would be nice to have things like apt-listchanges and apt-listbugs for apt4rpm.

I just love playing with the latest and greatest, and Debian just isn't the best distro for that IMO.

If you run sid a lot of stuff is up to date. I'm currently running the latest xchat (2.0.2 IIRC), CVS builds of Galeon for Gnome2.2, Mozilla CVS builds, etc.

I know I've said this before, but KDE only took so long because of the gcc people and their incompatible C++ ABI changes in gcc 3.x now that the transition has happened KDE should stay up to date.

Kinda OT, I know, Im just sick of seeing people dissing Gentoo simply cause it's source based, when there are many other things to love about it

One thing that bothered me about it was that they said they had an Alpha port, but it turns out there's no installer and no docs for Alpha. Some guy just got things to compile and said it was ported.
 
Kinda OT, I know, Im just sick of seeing people dissing Gentoo simply cause it's source based, when there are many other things to love about it

The reason people diss it for that reason is that all of the clueless gentoo fanboys (not you 🙂) run around spouting off about how amazing gentoo is, and citing that single reason as why.
 
Nothinman, thanks for the heads-up on Bochs; I'll have to check it out (although it's not much of a hassle for me to reboot; thanks grub!)

I know the repositories aren't nearly as big as for Debian, but like I said, it would take a hell of a lot of work to make apt-rpm comparable to the true apt-get (not to mention the guidelines you mentioned). If a "community" would get behind apt-rpm, it could be very cool; right now it's just cool. Short version: I'm not arguing with your viewpoint, I agree with it; I would like to see apt-rpm live on, though.

By the way: Bingbongwongfooey-nice sig! 😀
 
Gentoo was an interesting aside. I am currently running it on my workstation. Like Sunner I enjoy the cutting edge and the control on the install. I know that Debian has similar control and a better method of deployment (ie no compile). As soon as I have the time I will go back to trying debian.

Nothingman- will deb install uner VMware? I could try it there... to get the hang of it.

Panther
 
Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Kinda OT, I know, Im just sick of seeing people dissing Gentoo simply cause it's source based, when there are many other things to love about it

The reason people diss it for that reason is that all of the clueless gentoo fanboys (not you 🙂) run around spouting off about how amazing gentoo is, and citing that single reason as why.

There's no denying that I guess, seeing as I see alot of people posting stuff like "OMG!!! I installed Gentoo on my P90, it took 150 hours to install X, but it's uber fast now that it's compiled for my architecture!!! Gentoo r0x0rz y000!!!".

But on the other hand, there are quite a few Debian people who act like children, so I guess it evens out, the fanatics are annoying in both camps, just in different ways 😉
 
Gentoo, Debian, and Redhat.

I like Gentoo. gentoo rocks. Almost. For a personal computer it's great. Software technology changes so fricking fast that once a Distro releases a new version it's almost obsolete compared to a Distro that is going to be released a couple months from then. Gentoo is a good way to have all the nice new features and take active part in the developement and testing of new software. Since everyone sets their box up differently you are going to have people try most every fesable combination, and it uncovers bugs more quickly. The trouble is that you are going to get some instabilities. Bad compiles, ocasionally having to edit makefiles and the such. Software bugs that nobody has seen before and nobody will be able to help you make a workaround. Sometimes its tiring to have a OS thats only a couple levels above XP, in terms of stability. The Portage system is so good that it is practicly automation. Hit one line you get dependaces and updates. A simple update world command and come back a couple hours later and you have all the new stuff.

Now Redhat and Debian are good professional-level software. I would probably never use Gentoo for any server stuff at work. There is no point. Redhat has the advantage of uniformaty and corporate support, each time you install it it is very easy to duplicate software, it's always the same and even a lay-person after a couple installs will know what to do. If the OS fouls up during the install, help is a phone call away. It's a good OS for those inflicted with residual Microsoft-mentality. RPM's are good as long as they are from dependable sources.

Debain is just as good as Redhat for professional stuff, it just requires a different attitude from a comany using it. With debian and apt-get/dselect you can set up a server with any combination of software and cross-service plugins you could want in 15-30 minutes. Another couple hours later after modifing some configs you have a custom designed OS that will meet any specific need with complete stability and performance on pretty much any sort of hardware. Within a couple days to a week you can have a nice sized fully servicable lan set up, fully automated services with network monitoring and all that happy horse-hocky. Easy, quick, effective with any very knowlegble Admin and proper planning. All due to slighty obsolete, but well patched and tested software with excelent packaging system.

Gentoo for enthusiest who want all the flashiness that Linux can provide, it's has good system and capitolizes on all the strengths of Linux. Redhat is a good one that I have installed on my parents spare computer, for my younger siblings. I tell them that unlike XP that there brother can't screw up the computer and mess up their settings just as long as they remember to log out. I tried that on XP, but it only took a couple months before they all figured how to give themselves administrative rights. That computer is now slowly grinding itself into the dust. I am the only one that has r0o7 passord 😉, and I don't have to be there to keep the damn thing running and the couple times a month when I do visit, I can get new games installed and upgrade different bits without much hassle. And so far its stable as it ever is. Debian of course I have installed as the server for my personal lan, And it's my OS of choice for showing off for my boss, and its great on my old laptop.
 
othingman- will deb install uner VMware? I could try it there... to get the hang of it.

Sure, VMWare provide an X server for their simulated video card and the simulated NIC uses the pcnet32 module.
 
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