I know its cool to bash MS and all. But what can linux do that windows cant.

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jonmullen

Platinum Member
Jun 17, 2002
2,517
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Originally posted by: Acanthus
I was going to give Red Hat 9 a shot last week on one of my servers that wasnt in use at the time. It doesnt seem like Asus has any drivers at all for the Intel I850E based P4T533-C. Being a pretty common mobo i immediatly decided if i was going to go linux, i would have to go Nforce or something else simple for my 1st try.

Ive read every post and thank you for the honest/non-flaming replies.

So for my 1st shot at linux which version does everyone reccomend? Debian? Red Hat? Free BSD? Mandrake? Id like to build a Proxy server around it if that wont be too too hard. Do any of these OS's support bridging multiple connections? I'm having a 2nd DSL line installed soon and im gonna need to bridge the 2 1500k/768k lines.

Thanks again for the help!

Ok Linux is just the kernel. Debian Redhat Gentoo 'drake and every thing are just packages that run off the kernel. So yes all of those distros will support bridging multiple connections, but there are some ligistical problems with it...that keep you from being able to bridge two 1500k lines for a max download of 3000k, but what you can do is load balance your connections over the two lines, but each single request will only be able to get 1500k. Some one can correct me if I am wrong here. Setting up a proxy server would not be that hard. Since you are a n00b I would recomend you take a look at Redhat first it will make the install process real easy for you, although if you have the patcience Debian is a much better distro IMHO. I personally use Debian and Gentoo. I love the control I get with gentoo from the start, but it does take a while to get every thing compiled and setup and I would not recomment it for a n00b.
 

Panther505

Senior member
Oct 5, 2000
560
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
Apt can be installed on any RPM based distro (RedHat, Mandrake, etc) but there's significatnly less packages available and IMO the Debian packages are much higher quality. If you can read the docs on Debian's site you shouldn't have too much trouble getting through the install.

Now that may be a slight understatement-

Well Nothingman- I finally have got it installed and configured (running it as a desktop). If I can get my head on straight I will move my workstation at home to Deb (as soon as I can figure out how to install on an LSI controller)
 

thedan

Senior member
Aug 5, 2001
332
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Originally posted by: Spyro
Originally posted by: thedan
Linux has a steep learning curve, but I like the way you can customise your GUI quite alot.

Its pretty daunting for new users. I'm a seasoned Windows person, but with linux, you try to install a driver/software/update and it just doesn't work most of the time, and for a new user, it doesn't offer much help to your problem.

Installing software doesn't work most of the time?!? I'm sorry dude but you're quite wrong, and I'm going to assume that you didn't mean to say that because it actually sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. So if *most* of the programs that you're trying to install don't work, then what's the use of the OS
rolleye.gif



Yeah, I wasn't very specific. It just seems whenver I try to do a driver update/install or a new piece of software (that isn't included in the OS) it quite often (30% of the time - Guess) fails at installation. For someone who isn't very adept at diagnosing linux problems it can be quite daunting given 5 lines of code containing no actual helpful feedback.

It may be helpful if your an expert, but for someon who ahsn't used it before, it can be quite concerning. :)
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Originally posted by: Spyro
Originally posted by: Rainsford
...

Nicely put, dude! All must bow before Rainsford, the cognitive cow!

...

Heh, might have some sig material there. Or possibly a custom member type if I can bribe the mods or something... :D

 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
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Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Originally posted by: Acanthus
I want a serious answer, not just Linux rules! I'm looking at this with an open mind and i would like to know the advantages other than "its something else that works".
- Run all of the following software on a Pentium II 300 with 128MB of ram and a 1.2GB HDD at speed without crashing or being vulnerable to a load of bugs:
Web Server
FTP Server
DNS Server
DHCP Server
SMTP Server
IMAP3 Server

- Currently, no Windows Operating System (that I am aware of anyways) supports ANY advanced networking or firewalling capabilities like DNAT/SNAT, Port forwarding, Stateful packet inspection, configurable port blocking, alternate response methods, etc..

- Run it on other than Intel's x86 Architecture (Granted, XP Embedded runs on ARM procs, and there WAS that Alpha version of NT, but generally, the consumer-available OS can't do it).

- Driver/software support is better in Linux than it is in Windows XP.

- The very nature of unixes allows some pretty cool things to be done, because every i/o device is seen as a file. I can detail these things if you like, but they are all things that cannot be done on Windows by the OS itself.

- Support for things like ramdisks is built into the kernel, and that lets you do things like create a 640MB bootable distribution on which you can get everything you could with a default Win2K install at ~1.2GB and more. I've seen bootable CD distributions that run X that come in at under 50MB.

- Finally, FreeBSD is a BSD, not Linux, so don't confuse the two, they are very separate.

that is just blantantly false!
 

Barnaby W. Füi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2001
12,343
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Originally posted by: josphII
Originally posted by: chsh1ca
Originally posted by: Acanthus
I want a serious answer, not just Linux rules! I'm looking at this with an open mind and i would like to know the advantages other than "its something else that works".
- Run all of the following software on a Pentium II 300 with 128MB of ram and a 1.2GB HDD at speed without crashing or being vulnerable to a load of bugs:
Web Server
FTP Server
DNS Server
DHCP Server
SMTP Server
IMAP3 Server

- Currently, no Windows Operating System (that I am aware of anyways) supports ANY advanced networking or firewalling capabilities like DNAT/SNAT, Port forwarding, Stateful packet inspection, configurable port blocking, alternate response methods, etc..

- Run it on other than Intel's x86 Architecture (Granted, XP Embedded runs on ARM procs, and there WAS that Alpha version of NT, but generally, the consumer-available OS can't do it).

- Driver/software support is better in Linux than it is in Windows XP.

- The very nature of unixes allows some pretty cool things to be done, because every i/o device is seen as a file. I can detail these things if you like, but they are all things that cannot be done on Windows by the OS itself.

- Support for things like ramdisks is built into the kernel, and that lets you do things like create a 640MB bootable distribution on which you can get everything you could with a default Win2K install at ~1.2GB and more. I've seen bootable CD distributions that run X that come in at under 50MB.

- Finally, FreeBSD is a BSD, not Linux, so don't confuse the two, they are very separate.

that is just blantantly false!
It's neither true nor false; it just depends on what drivers and software you want to use.
 

cleverhandle

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2001
3,566
3
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Originally posted by: josphII
that is just blantantly false!
Um... no. Have you been reading the thread, or did you just jump in for fun? To summarize what's been said, and add a bit: Windows is arguably better at supporting brand new, "ooh-ahh" hardware. But that same hardware may be unsupported in the next Windows version if the manufacturer goes under or just decides they don't want to bother with new drivers. Linux supports some monstrously old hardware, and does it well. And what kind of hardware is more likely to be found in that critical server that you're upgrading the OS for - a 3 week old nVidia GeForce6 88000 video card or a 3 year old built-in SCSI controller?

 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
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Originally posted by: cleverhandle
And what kind of hardware is more likely to be found in that critical server that you're upgrading the OS for - a 3 week old nVidia GeForce6 88000 video card

nVidia is a bad example here, I'd go with ATi. nVidia's driver support under Linux is nearly as good as it is under Windows. Under certain circumstances, it's better. Reference the latest nForce driver debacle. :)
 

Spyro

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2001
3,366
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Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: Spyro
Originally posted by: Rainsford
...

Nicely put, dude! All must bow before Rainsford, the cognitive cow!

...

Heh, might have some sig material there. Or possibly a custom member type if I can bribe the mods or something... :D

Hey, feel free to sig it :p
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
0
Originally posted by: cleverhandle
Originally posted by: josphII
that is just blantantly false!
Um... no. Have you been reading the thread, or did you just jump in for fun? To summarize what's been said, and add a bit: Windows is arguably better at supporting brand new, "ooh-ahh" hardware. But that same hardware may be unsupported in the next Windows version if the manufacturer goes under or just decides they don't want to bother with new drivers. Linux supports some monstrously old hardware, and does it well. And what kind of hardware is more likely to be found in that critical server that you're upgrading the OS for - a 3 week old nVidia GeForce6 88000 video card or a 3 year old built-in SCSI controller?

the number of devices supported by linux NOT supported by windows? few
the number of devices supported by windows NOT supported by linux? MANY

[edit] an example: the highpoint raid 370 controller on my abit vp6, is this supported under linux? only partially. individual hard drives can be accessed but if you configure a raid array in the highpoint 370 bios you can NOT see the array in linux.... and this board is what 3-4 yrs old?
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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the number of devices supported by linux NOT supported by windows? few
the number of devices supported by windows NOT supported by linux? MANY

The number of those devices supported by Windows but not by Linux that are worth buying? few. And I routinely have less problems with Linux drivers than the Windows ones.

an example: the highpoint raid 370 controller on my abit vp6, is this supported under linux? only partially. individual hard drives can be accessed but if you configure a raid array in the highpoint 370 bios you can NOT see the array in linux.... and this board is what 3-4 yrs old?

So? It's a POS IDE software RAID array, better to use Linux software RAID anyway, it's better supported and better tested.
 

josphII

Banned
Nov 24, 2001
1,490
0
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Originally posted by: Nothinman
the number of devices supported by linux NOT supported by windows? few
the number of devices supported by windows NOT supported by linux? MANY

The number of those devices supported by Windows but not by Linux that are worth buying? few. And I routinely have less problems with Linux drivers than the Windows ones.

an example: the highpoint raid 370 controller on my abit vp6, is this supported under linux? only partially. individual hard drives can be accessed but if you configure a raid array in the highpoint 370 bios you can NOT see the array in linux.... and this board is what 3-4 yrs old?

So? It's a POS IDE software RAID array, better to use Linux software RAID anyway, it's better supported and better tested.

yeah but if you use linux software raid (or windows xp software raid) you wont be able to view the raid array in any other os, ie you dual boot or put the controller in another computer
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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I know, and it's all part of the sacrifices of dual booting. You have to decide what you want more, the ability to lose all your data to an unhappy IDE RAID 0 set or the ability to read the drive in both OSes. I don't dual boot any more so it's not a factor for me because Windows is long gone (minus the few times a year I start it up in VMWare to see something).

And really you can thank HighPoint for their lack of Linux support because they won't even give out enough information so a driver can be written for them, if you want a decent IDE RAID controller get a Promise hardware RAID controller.
 

sciencewhiz

Diamond Member
Jun 30, 2000
5,885
8
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Linux has many more drivers included then windows does. However, windows has many more drivers provided by the manufacterer.

There are only two devices that I've been able to install in windows without a driver provided by the manufacterer, a usb flash drive, and a lexmark laser printer (using a postscript driver that didn't use it to it's full potential). In linux, I didn't need any extra drivers for anything in my thinkpad, or my other computer.

With windows, you get a crappy text editor, a browser, a e-mail program, solitaire, a bunch of other crappy utilities and that's it. With linux you get (at least one) office suite, (at least one) browser, (at least one) e-mail program, a graphics editing program, a bunch of games, etc, etc, etc.

Out of the box, linux is both cheaper and more functional then windows.
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
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However, windows has many more drivers provided by the manufacterer.

All Windows drivers are provided by the manufacturer, even the ones on the CD are just tested and packaged by MS.