I just want to see how widespread this is...

[irishScott]

^^^^^

 

[JD50]

Yay, Iraq thread number 1848373856386

 

[Craig234]

I'm a rare liberal who is open to some time to do the pullout.

I think we've done enough to hurt the Iraqis and can listen to what they want, and polls show they want us to leave, but not too quickly, until a bit more order is established. We're not talking Bush's fantasy of 'victory', but some help for the government.

 

[conehead433]

In 4 years we haven't really accomplished anything and it's getting worse. The main reason those who don't want us to pull out is the claim that if we don't fight them (terroists?) there they will follow us here. Those who didn't want to leave Viet Nam said the same thing about the communists. I remember seeing a speech by Robert Kennedy saying that them following us here was a ridiculous notion. Apparently he was right as I don't remember us fighting the communists here in the states. The Iraqis are using us a crutch and apparently some are using our soldiers as target practice. If not pull out at least pull back and let's see how well the Iraqis defend themselves or let them kill each other off as they seem to want to do. Unfortunately all we have succeeded in doing is weakening Iraq to the point where it is easy pickings for Iran. Four years and now a surge. Stay the course. Blah, blah, blah. To hell with it.

 

[UberNeuman]

What does the OP mean? A staged withdraw or all troops at once?

 

[First]

Everyone wants to pull out eventually, it's the time frames that differ. Most sane people want most of the troops gone ASAP, with a contingent left in strategic parts of Iraq (not many) and a reasonable amount in Afghanistan to continue to destroy Taliban/Al Qaeda networks. That's where the most NATO support is anyway, so not as many U.S. troops need to be there.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: conehead433
The Iraqis are using us a crutch and apparently some are using our soldiers as target practice.

WTF? Somebody actually gets it?

Why should the Iraqis do a damn thing for themselves while the "stoopid Americans" are more than willing to get shot up?

 

[Jaskalas]

Pullout? Yes, but gradual as the Iraqis themselves take over our role in their security.

So in this instance I?d have to say no, as I take to poll to mean immediate pullout, where as I can see the majority of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2008. If not for anything else than politics.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Pullout? Yes, but gradual as the Iraqis themselves take over our role in their security.

So in this instance I?d have to say no, as I take to poll to mean immediate pullout, where as I can see the majority of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2008. If not for anything else than politics.

Ah, so King Bush's legacy doesn't end up a total steaming pile of crap...got it :roll:

 

[Lemon law]

Ah, so King Bush's legacy doesn't end up a total steaming pile of crap...got it

Nah--wrong---its already a unredeemable pile of steaming crap---the only unknown question is how big in diameter the steaming pile will be and how high it will become.

Is there an natural angle of repose for steaming crap like there is for sand---and can it get steeper sided when it cools and solidifies?

The only real question is how many years will it take to finally clean up the steaming pile he has left as his GWB legacy?

 

[palehorse]

no. If you think things are bad now, globally; then just wait and see what it's like if we pull out too soon...

We DO need to try something different though... perhaps move all our troops to the borders in Iraq, or something similar.

 

[ProfJohn]

Since the surge is showing signs of working wouldn't it be foolish to pull out now?

Furthermore, the terrorist believe that all they have to do is a kill a few Americans and we will run for the hills. That was the case in Lebanon and Somalia and the reason behind the Kohbar towers. So if we just up and leave we will have proven once again that we are a paper tiger who is incapable of sticking it out when things get rough. We will have essentially handed the terrorists a victory.
For everyone who complains that our actions in Iraq helps terrorists recruit don't you think that giving the terrorists the ability to say 'see we can beat America' would help them out as well?

 

[Mxylplyx]

Maybe we should go to ever country over there that was screwed up by European colonialism and shake it up a bit. After they have their civil wars, and divide properly among cultural or ideological lines like every other stable country had to do at some point, we can finally have some peace over there. Pretty much every trouble region over there has resulted from outside imperialists or do-gooders interfering in the natural order of things, and creating perpetual chaos.

 

[QuantumPion]

Why is the entire debate focused on when and how we should retreat? Why is there no discussion on how we can go about winning the conflict? If the democrats were honest, they would be asking "what can we do to win the war as quickly as possible", as opposed to "how can we force the president to retreat before the 2008 elections, so that when chaos ensues in the region we can blame it on him to our political gain".

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
no. If you think things are bad now, globally; then just wait and see what it's like if we pull out too soon...

We DO need to try something different though... perhaps move all our troops to the borders in Iraq, or something similar.

As long as it's the Iranian border you've got my support.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: palehorse74
no. If you think things are bad now, globally; then just wait and see what it's like if we pull out too soon...

We DO need to try something different though... perhaps move all our troops to the borders in Iraq, or something similar.

As long as it's the Iranian border you've got my support.

I believe that we already have enough troops, vehicles, and planes over there to lock down the Iranian and Syrian borders somewhat effectively (installation of motion sensors along each one would help). We could also leave a large QRF/CT team at BIAP, or in the green zone, with choppers to take them after terrorist targets only.

just a thought...

 

[k1pp3r]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Since the surge is showing signs of working wouldn't it be foolish to pull out now?

Furthermore, the terrorist believe that all they have to do is a kill a few Americans and we will run for the hills. That was the case in Lebanon and Somalia and the reason behind the Kohbar towers. So if we just up and leave we will have proven once again that we are a paper tiger who is incapable of sticking it out when things get rough. We will have essentially handed the terrorists a victory.
For everyone who complains that our actions in Iraq helps terrorists recruit don't you think that giving the terrorists the ability to say 'see we can beat America' would help them out as well?

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphics/iraqpoll/poll1/flash.htm

Things really do seem better, but like you said, our job is still not done there

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Pullout? Yes, but gradual as the Iraqis themselves take over our role in their security.

So in this instance I?d have to say no, as I take to poll to mean immediate pullout, where as I can see the majority of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2008. If not for anything else than politics.

Ah, so King Bush's legacy doesn't end up a total steaming pile of crap...got it :roll:

No. It's turned into the worst kind of political football and both sides are playing for their own selfish reasons

Why do you think the Dems are pushing so hard for a pre-November 08 pull out? Obviously they are opposed to our actions over there and the cost to the country but what they are trying to avoid is inheriting this mess. At all costs...

IF they take the presidency and we are still in Iraq, what do they do? If the D Prez calls for an immediate pull out the resulting catastrophy will be on their heads (politically) as the Rs scream "Look what you've done! We told you so!" After being called Nazis for the last 8 years they will happily start using the word "holocaust" every time it's convenient. If (s)he leaves them in then they have their own party yelling at them... The internal discord will create a rift in the party and prevent them from fully implimenting their agenda. It's a lose lose...

The Rs OTOH are insisting that we stay in for reasons of "victory" and "establishing democracy" and devastation that would happen if we made an immediate withdrawl. And don't forget the "terrer terrer terrer" stuff. The reality is that they know it's a mess and as long as we're this close to the '08 elections, might as well keep it going and let it serve as a boat anchor for the Dems agenda.

Both sides are disgusting in their motivations. (One is willing to sacrifice Iraq and the people in it while the other is willing to sacrifice our soldiers) Neither side really knows what to do anymore. What a sad, sorry mess we're in.

 

[Fern]

Sorry, I've gone to some length explaining why I believe it would be a bad idea in several previous posts. Has nothing to do with politics. But I'm sorry the search function doesnt' work and I don't time to continual re-write my response to this issue.

But, I voted 'no'.

Fern

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Pullout? Yes, but gradual as the Iraqis themselves take over our role in their security.

So in this instance I?d have to say no, as I take to poll to mean immediate pullout, where as I can see the majority of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2008. If not for anything else than politics.

Ah, so King Bush's legacy doesn't end up a total steaming pile of crap...got it :roll:

No. It's turned into the worst kind of political football and both sides are playing for their own selfish reasons

Why do you think the Dems are pushing so hard for a pre-November 08 pull out? Obviously they are opposed to our actions over there and the cost to the country but what they are trying to avoid is inheriting this mess. At all costs...

IF they take the presidency and we are still in Iraq, what do they do? If the D Prez calls for an immediate pull out the resulting catastrophy will be on their heads (politically) as the Rs scream "Look what you've done! We told you so!" After being called Nazis for the last 8 years they will happily start using the word "holocaust" every time it's convenient. If (s)he leaves them in then they have their own party yelling at them... The internal discord will create a rift in the party and prevent them from fully implimenting their agenda. It's a lose lose...

The Rs OTOH are insisting that we stay in for reasons of "victory" and "establishing democracy" and devastation that would happen if we made an immediate withdrawl. And don't forget the "terrer terrer terrer" stuff. The reality is that they know it's a mess and as long as we're this close to the '08 elections, might as well keep it going and let it serve as a boat anchor for the Dems agenda.

Both sides are disgusting in their motivations. (One is willing to sacrifice Iraq and the people in it while the other is willing to sacrifice our soldiers) Neither side really knows what to do anymore. What a sad, sorry mess we're in.

Bull. There isn't a single criticism of republicans you will admit and not call 'political' apparently.

Republicans call any criticism 'political', it's not just you. See a republican congressman with a smoking gun in his hand over the bodies of 20 girl scouts? Attacking him is political.

You give passes to the wrongs they do with the word 'political'.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Republicans call any criticism 'political', it's not just you. See a republican congressman with a smoking gun in his hand over the bodies of 20 girl scouts? Attacking him is political.

Wow, way to give a major boost to your cred as an objective political poster

Fern

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Pullout? Yes, but gradual as the Iraqis themselves take over our role in their security.

So in this instance I?d have to say no, as I take to poll to mean immediate pullout, where as I can see the majority of our troops out of Iraq by the end of 2008. If not for anything else than politics.

Ah, so King Bush's legacy doesn't end up a total steaming pile of crap...got it :roll:

No. It's turned into the worst kind of political football and both sides are playing for their own selfish reasons

Why do you think the Dems are pushing so hard for a pre-November 08 pull out? Obviously they are opposed to our actions over there and the cost to the country but what they are trying to avoid is inheriting this mess. At all costs...

IF they take the presidency and we are still in Iraq, what do they do? If the D Prez calls for an immediate pull out the resulting catastrophy will be on their heads (politically) as the Rs scream "Look what you've done! We told you so!" After being called Nazis for the last 8 years they will happily start using the word "holocaust" every time it's convenient. If (s)he leaves them in then they have their own party yelling at them... The internal discord will create a rift in the party and prevent them from fully implimenting their agenda. It's a lose lose...

The Rs OTOH are insisting that we stay in for reasons of "victory" and "establishing democracy" and devastation that would happen if we made an immediate withdrawl. And don't forget the "terrer terrer terrer" stuff. The reality is that they know it's a mess and as long as we're this close to the '08 elections, might as well keep it going and let it serve as a boat anchor for the Dems agenda.

Both sides are disgusting in their motivations. (One is willing to sacrifice Iraq and the people in it while the other is willing to sacrifice our soldiers) Neither side really knows what to do anymore. What a sad, sorry mess we're in.

Bull. There isn't a single criticism of republicans you will admit and not call 'political' apparently.

Republicans call any criticism 'political', it's not just you. See a republican congressman with a smoking gun in his hand over the bodies of 20 girl scouts? Attacking him is political.

You give passes to the wrongs they do with the word 'political'.

WTF are you talking about? Did you even read what I wrote? Your response makes no sense. You sound as if I'm defending the Repubicans on this. If anything, extending the war for political purposes makes them lower on the moral relevancy scale.

The reality is that they know it's a mess and as long as we're this close to the '08 elections, might as well keep it going and let it serve as a boat anchor for the Dems agenda.

If I'm supposedly defending the Rs there... That ain't much of a defense. :roll:

Read what I wrote again, absorb it. Then rethink your response.